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passing school buses

Old 04-13-22, 12:54 PM
  #51  
pdlamb
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Funny thing is, half the time I ride a bike up to a loading or unloading school bus, the driver waves me through anyway.

I treat it like a policeman waving me through a red light -- I go!
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Old 04-14-22, 01:02 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by work4bike
Of course this post bugged me, so I re-read my state laws concerning cyclists, to see if they say anything about bikes approaching school buses and there is no Special Regulations, that specifically address that particular scenario. However, they do open with this statement.

That tells me that I am required to stop for school buses; however, I could pass at a very slow speed, based on the very last part of that sentence. Clearly, if I walked my bike I'd be in compliance with the law, but if I rode past, then you're getting into interpretation. I choose to stop and wait.


P.S. In Florida we cyclists are considered a vehicle if operating on the roadways, but not if we're operating on the sidewalk.


Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
Georgia is similar. Bicycle is a vehicle, and thus bicycle riders have the same rules as car drivers. As you note, the bicycle rider can transition into a pedestrian and thus not be subject to the vehicle rules. Though a difference with FL is that bicyclists over the age of 12 aren't supposed to ride on the sidewalk.

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...ection-40-1-1/
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...le-8/40-6-163/
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...tion-40-6-144/
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Old 04-21-22, 09:00 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
I think I may have passed a school bus on the right after all the kids got on & the doors were shut, some years ago. I know this is a car story but we sometimes forget as cyclist, not to pass a stopped school bus, especially on the right. the driver says the lights were flashing & the stop sign was deployed but they aren't visible in the video clip. regardless, a good reminder to stay clear of school buses in general

Caught on Camera: Driver Flies by Stopped School Bus in Maine
That bus driver is an idiot! They should have pulled that bus over far enough to the right where a vehicle would not be able to get past it on the right side. Yes, the car driver was an idiot as well, but the job of the bus driver is to eliminate as much as possible an idiot motorist from doing that. Eliminate the danger to the right side so then all you have left is the danger on the left side to watch for instead of danger coming from two sides.

Motorists are stupid, where I live, I see cars and trucks blowing past stop arms at full speed, they don't care, all they care about is getting to work on time instead of waking up 3 minutes earlier. Hell, I've seen cops blow past stop arms!! It's even against the law for a cop car, fire truck, or ambulance with their lights and sirens going to blow past a school bus with their red lights flashing and the stop arm out, the cops I saw did not have any lights or sirens, they just didn't care.

The one thing I did notice with school buses, is that when the sun is shining directly on those red flashers, the light from the sun just flushes the red lights out, the most difficult one to see under those circumstances is the stop arm. The school bus manufacturers need to make those lights a lot brighter. I also think they should incorporate the brake lights to flash as well as along with the hazards, but I have a feeling that might be a vehicle code legal issue; along with making the stop arm at least 50% larger and make it stick out on an arm by at least two feet from the side of the bus.

Some school buses have cameras that will take a picture of a car blowing the stop arm, problem with that is that law enforcement, at least where I live, won't do anything about it, just send a little letter explaining what their duty is when they see a stopped school but with their reds on. The cameras do help in case of an accident with a child, but they need to issue tickets to those idiots that blow the arms, and expensive tickets at that to make people think before they run the lights.
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Old 04-22-22, 05:49 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
That bus driver is an idiot! They should have pulled that bus over far enough to the right where a vehicle would not be able to get past it on the right side. Yes, the car driver was an idiot as well, but the job of the bus driver is to eliminate as much as possible an idiot motorist from doing that. Eliminate the danger to the right side so then all you have left is the danger on the left side to watch for instead of danger coming from two sides.

Motorists are stupid, where I live, I see cars and trucks blowing past stop arms at full speed, they don't care, all they care about is getting to work on time instead of waking up 3 minutes earlier. Hell, I've seen cops blow past stop arms!! It's even against the law for a cop car, fire truck, or ambulance with their lights and sirens going to blow past a school bus with their red lights flashing and the stop arm out, the cops I saw did not have any lights or sirens, they just didn't care.

The one thing I did notice with school buses, is that when the sun is shining directly on those red flashers, the light from the sun just flushes the red lights out, the most difficult one to see under those circumstances is the stop arm. The school bus manufacturers need to make those lights a lot brighter. I also think they should incorporate the brake lights to flash as well as along with the hazards, but I have a feeling that might be a vehicle code legal issue; along with making the stop arm at least 50% larger and make it stick out on an arm by at least two feet from the side of the bus.

Some school buses have cameras that will take a picture of a car blowing the stop arm, problem with that is that law enforcement, at least where I live, won't do anything about it, just send a little letter explaining what their duty is when they see a stopped school but with their reds on. The cameras do help in case of an accident with a child, but they need to issue tickets to those idiots that blow the arms, and expensive tickets at that to make people think before they run the lights.

Calling the bus driver an idiot is BS. If you watch the video, it's quite clear that the bus door is well into the breakdown lane and the car is halfway off the road bed when she passed. There's no way to anticipate that someone might actually go off the road to pass on the right, especially when the bus driver is expecting an adult to meet the bus on the right side.

Stopping further to the right would risk hitting someone in her blind spot.
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Old 04-28-22, 10:52 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by gpburdell
Georgia is similar. Bicycle is a vehicle, and thus bicycle riders have the same rules as car drivers. As you note, the bicycle rider can transition into a pedestrian and thus not be subject to the vehicle rules. Though a difference with FL is that bicyclists over the age of 12 aren't supposed to ride on the sidewalk.
State law in Georgia, like FL, is that you can't "ride" on a sidewalk. But this is a lively topic on the local neighborhood.com board and nobody there can recall ever hearing of anyone ever getting cited for it.

There is also a distinction between a "sidewalk" (illegal to ride) and a "multi-use path" (legal to ride). A multi-use path is like a sidewalk but at least 10' wide by law. But I don't necessarily KNOW that every 10' sidewalk is a "multi-use path". The laws on this sort of thing here in GA are half-vast at best.
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Old 04-28-22, 11:22 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by hotbike

Canadian school bus with two meter arm

Saw this today, a stop 🛑 sign on a two meter arm.

That will get knocked off in a hurry.
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Old 04-28-22, 11:42 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by FredMau
State law in Georgia, like FL, is that you can't "ride" on a sidewalk. But this is a lively topic on the local neighborhood.com board and nobody there can recall ever hearing of anyone ever getting cited for it.

There is also a distinction between a "sidewalk" (illegal to ride) and a "multi-use path" (legal to ride). A multi-use path is like a sidewalk but at least 10' wide by law. But I don't necessarily KNOW that every 10' sidewalk is a "multi-use path". The laws on this sort of thing here in GA are half-vast at best.
Yes, the third link in my post shows the GA law regarding sidewalk riding. I'd been replying to work4bike 's comment about Florida cyclists not being considered a vehicle if operating on the sidewalk.

I've lived in GA over two decades and have yet to ever hear of someone getting cited for riding on the sidewalk.

That said, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, but it certainly seems that the LEOs have better things to do than cite someone riding bicycle on a deserted or low traffic stretch of sidewalk who isn't causing some other issue/danger.
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Old 04-28-22, 11:50 AM
  #58  
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I have been a school bus driver in Delaware for 10 years. The things people do while operating a vehicle, especially around a school bus, mystify me, but no longer surprise me. In Delaware, to prevent a driver passing on right, the bus driver is required to stop in that right side area to block it off. The state is also considering on board cameras that monitor the outside of the buses. Most school buses here now have cameras to monitor the inside of the bus. IMO, one of the best ways to protect the students, the driver, and the administration- school district.
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Old 04-28-22, 02:24 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by delbiker1
I have been a school bus driver in Delaware for 10 years. The things people do while operating a vehicle, especially around a school bus, mystify me, but no longer surprise me. In Delaware, to prevent a driver passing on right, the bus driver is required to stop in that right side area to block it off. The state is also considering on board cameras that monitor the outside of the buses. Most school buses here now have cameras to monitor the inside of the bus. IMO, one of the best ways to protect the students, the driver, and the administration- school district.
That makes perfect sense to me. Why would a school bus NOT want to stop to the far right??? Even if it means stopping in what would otherwise be a right-turn lane? School buses and transit buses pull off into the right-turn lane all the time around here.

Outside cameras are done county by county here in GA. My county has them, and my understanding is they're mounted on the "stop" swing-out arm and automatically tripped if someone drives past it.
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Old 04-28-22, 04:38 PM
  #60  
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Here’s one motorcycle that carries a message

Seen this online.
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Old 05-02-22, 06:56 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by FredMau
That makes perfect sense to me. Why would a school bus NOT want to stop to the far right??? Even if it means stopping in what would otherwise be a right-turn lane? School buses and transit buses pull off into the right-turn lane all the time around here.

Outside cameras are done county by county here in GA. My county has them, and my understanding is they're mounted on the "stop" swing-out arm and automatically tripped if someone drives past it.

I think the ambiguity comes up in areas like in the OP where the shoulder is functioning as the sidewalk. It's a bit harder to define what constitutes the far right in that circumstance seeing as the bus driver also has to be careful not to hit people waiting to meet their kids at the bus stop..
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Old 05-02-22, 11:59 AM
  #62  
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I know where I live a few buses have stop arm cameras that activate when the arm is out, but, it's useless! If a person runs the arm all the authorities do is send a letter stating the law that was broken and please don't do it again! The letter has no teeth, no ticket is issued, nothing. All it could do is provide video evidence if a car passed the arm and hit a child for court.

That one bus someone showed with that stand out arm still wouldn't stop motorists, they'll just swing wide around it.

Thank God most people do stop for school buses, but it's those that don't is where the real danger lurks. Despite all of that, the USA still has the safest school bus transportation system IN THE ENTIRE WORLD!! Can it be made even better? yeah, but by how much? maybe 1%? I don't know, but I doubt there is a whole lot of room for improvement. One of the things that bugs me about school buses is the age of the drivers, I don't think anyone should be driving any sort of bus with people on board past the age of 72. I see drivers out there who look to be in their 80's driving, which is just far too old. They have max age requirements for commercial pilots, I think there should be a max age for passenger bus drivers, and even for commercial drivers, but that's just me.
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Old 05-02-22, 01:39 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
I know where I live a few buses have stop arm cameras that activate when the arm is out, but, it's useless! If a person runs the arm all the authorities do is send a letter stating the law that was broken and please don't do it again! The letter has no teeth, no ticket is issued, nothing. All it could do is provide video evidence if a car passed the arm and hit a child for court.

That one bus someone showed with that stand out arm still wouldn't stop motorists, they'll just swing wide around it.

Thank God most people do stop for school buses, but it's those that don't is where the real danger lurks. Despite all of that, the USA still has the safest school bus transportation system IN THE ENTIRE WORLD!! Can it be made even better? yeah, but by how much? maybe 1%? I don't know, but I doubt there is a whole lot of room for improvement. One of the things that bugs me about school buses is the age of the drivers, I don't think anyone should be driving any sort of bus with people on board past the age of 72. I see drivers out there who look to be in their 80's driving, which is just far too old. They have max age requirements for commercial pilots, I think there should be a max age for passenger bus drivers, and even for commercial drivers, but that's just me.
Here in Georgia USA it's $250 but no points if a stop-arm camera catches it. Versus $1,000 + 6 points if an officer pulls you over for it (15 points within 24 months = suspension). And with 1/3 of a suspension against you, bend over and grab your ankles when your next auto insurance bill comes due.

My biggest gripe is that the timing needs to be "regularized". My county - Cobb Co - does it fairly right. School bus is tooling along, they put on blinking yellows, you know they're about to stop and go to red blinking lights. Next door Fulton Co does it all wrong. SOME (but not all) buses drive around with yellow blinking lights on ALL the time.
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Old 05-02-22, 05:41 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by FredMau
Here in Georgia USA it's $250 but no points if a stop-arm camera catches it. Versus $1,000 + 6 points if an officer pulls you over for it (15 points within 24 months = suspension). And with 1/3 of a suspension against you, bend over and grab your ankles when your next auto insurance bill comes due.

My biggest gripe is that the timing needs to be "regularized". My county - Cobb Co - does it fairly right. School bus is tooling along, they put on blinking yellows, you know they're about to stop and go to red blinking lights. Next door Fulton Co does it all wrong. SOME (but not all) buses drive around with yellow blinking lights on ALL the time.
I love the fines!!! I wish they would do that where I live here in Indiana, but nope. they would rather have 3 kids get killed instead of putting the fear of money to make you think twice. The lady that killed the 3 kids claims she never saw any lights, even if that was true due to bright morning sun washing out the lights let's say, the bus was stopped in the middle of the road, you better stop and figure out why before you pass a school bus. I do know from seeing school buses where I live that the lights do have a tendency to get washed out a bit from the bright sun if the sunlight is hitting the lights directly on, I think the bus manufacturers need to raise the intensity of those lights by at least double, and the stop arm is extremely washed out in direct sun, they need to triple the brightness of those. The other thing I think they should do, which I mentioned earlier but I'm not sure the legality of it, is to have the hazard lights come on whenever the yellow warning lights come on, and have the brake lights flash whenever the reds come on, I think adding lights to the equation might help a little bit more. The other odd thing I noticed about our school buses locally is that on the side of the buses they use 2 very small blinking lights that are hardly noticeable, I don't understand why with today's LED tech. they don't use rope LED the entire length of the bus? There is a lot of stuff they can do to improve bus visibility. Would it help? I don't know, but I know it can't hurt.

I checked, and found it that at least in the state of Indiana, it's against the law for a school but to run it's yellow warning flashers for anything but approaching a stop to get ready to deploy the reds to let kids on or off the bus, they cannot use them at RXR crossings either, just the regular yellow hazards, they can't use them if another bus has stopped in front of them and they have their reds on the other bus thinks they can help by turning on their reds or yellows, though they can turn on the hazards.
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Old 05-02-22, 07:08 PM
  #65  
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Son was issued a ticket by the school bus camera while attending the University of Georgia up in Athens, driving his girlfriends car. He did not live that down until they broke up...
The school busses where I live in GA, on a country two lane road, pull into the middle of the road, straddling the center yellow line, and wait until all clear. I am cool with that. The local drivers are respectful, as far as I have seen.

Personally, I am not in a big enough hurry to pass a school bus while on a bike. I do, however, get a little pissy when the school bus passes me and then 100 feet later stop with the red flashers on.
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Old 05-02-22, 07:13 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Tusk
Son was issued a ticket by the school bus camera while attending the University of Georgia up in Athens, driving his girlfriends car. He did not live that down until they broke up...
The school busses where I live in GA, on a country two lane road, pull into the middle of the road, straddling the center yellow line, and wait until all clear. I am cool with that. The local drivers are respectful, as far as I have seen.

Personally, I am not in a big enough hurry to pass a school bus while on a bike. I do, however, get a little pissy when the school bus passes me and then 100 feet later stop with the red flashers on.
But if they straddle the middle of the road doesn't that give a car room to pass either on the right or the left?
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Old 05-02-22, 08:41 PM
  #67  
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Not on country roads around here.
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Old 05-03-22, 06:57 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
But if they straddle the middle of the road doesn't that give a car room to pass either on the right or the left?

Depends on the width of the road, obviously. If a school bus stops in the middle of the street in my residential neighborhood, it effectively blocks traffic in both directions unless someone insists on running up the curb. There's no way to adopt a rule that prevents people who want to defy the warning signals on both sides in all situations.
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Old 05-03-22, 08:33 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Depends on the width of the road, obviously. If a school bus stops in the middle of the street in my residential neighborhood, it effectively blocks traffic in both directions unless someone insists on running up the curb. There's no way to adopt a rule that prevents people who want to defy the warning signals on both sides in all situations.
Except the poster said a country 2 lane road, which means traffic could get by on either side if they straddle the center line?

Looking at the laws on the internet regarding this, a school bus CANNOT stop across a center divider line, only emergency vehicles are allowed to do that. Supposedly the law is the same in all states. This is due to the fact that all school buses must obey all rules and regulations of the Highway Traffic Act, thus they are not allowed to break traffic laws, which means they cannot straddle a center dividing line to block traffic in all directions when letting kids on or off the bus. They also cannot block traffic in both directions, they can only block traffic in their far-right lane. They also are not supposed to block intersections. HOWEVER, depending on the jurisdiction of where the school buses are located, the enforcement agencies of the area may overlook some "law-breaking" activity if they deem the action is safer for the kids to do so. I know where I live the state law enforcement has told bus drivers NOT to park a bus in such a fashion to take up both lanes, according a friend of mine who use to drive buses, they also were not supposed to block intersections, if possible, but in some circumstances, depending on where a sidewalk and cross walk was located, the bus may not have a choice but to block an intersection. I know the city in which I live in the police won't do anything if they see a bus driver doing that sort of thing, unless the cop sees a potential danger in doing so, and even then, according to my friend, they will not talk to the bus driver directly, they will contact the bus people in charge of the bus drivers and tell them what they saw, then a letter will be sent to all drivers not to do that anymore if the police were correct about the action they saw and the bus authorities decide that it was unsafe.

I also found out from my friend, which I never knew before, that even an emergency vehicle with full lights and sirens MUST stop for a school bus that has their red flashers on! I thought they had to slow down and stop if necessary, and wait for an all clear from kids crossing then go cautiously, but they can't go till those flashers turn off.
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Old 05-03-22, 09:31 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
Except the poster said a country 2 lane road, which means traffic could get by on either side if they straddle the center line?

Looking at the laws on the internet regarding this, a school bus CANNOT stop across a center divider line, only emergency vehicles are allowed to do that. Supposedly the law is the same in all states. This is due to the fact that all school buses must obey all rules and regulations of the Highway Traffic Act, thus they are not allowed to break traffic laws, which means they cannot straddle a center dividing line to block traffic in all directions when letting kids on or off the bus. They also cannot block traffic in both directions, they can only block traffic in their far-right lane. They also are not supposed to block intersections. HOWEVER, depending on the jurisdiction of where the school buses are located, the enforcement agencies of the area may overlook some "law-breaking" activity if they deem the action is safer for the kids to do so. I know where I live the state law enforcement has told bus drivers NOT to park a bus in such a fashion to take up both lanes, according a friend of mine who use to drive buses, they also were not supposed to block intersections, if possible, but in some circumstances, depending on where a sidewalk and cross walk was located, the bus may not have a choice but to block an intersection. I know the city in which I live in the police won't do anything if they see a bus driver doing that sort of thing, unless the cop sees a potential danger in doing so, and even then, according to my friend, they will not talk to the bus driver directly, they will contact the bus people in charge of the bus drivers and tell them what they saw, then a letter will be sent to all drivers not to do that anymore if the police were correct about the action they saw and the bus authorities decide that it was unsafe.

I also found out from my friend, which I never knew before, that even an emergency vehicle with full lights and sirens MUST stop for a school bus that has their red flashers on! I thought they had to slow down and stop if necessary, and wait for an all clear from kids crossing then go cautiously, but they can't go till those flashers turn off.
Here in Georgia - I can't speak for other states - the rule is to slow down and then proceed if safe. GA Code § 40-6-6. Authorized Emergency Vehicles; Pursuit of Fleeing Suspects The law doesn't specifically mention school buses but appears to apply broadly to ANY red light or signal or stop sign.

b. The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle or law enforcement vehicle may:
1. Park or stand, irrespective of the provisions of this chapter;
2. Proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;
3. Exceed the maximum speed limits so long as he or she does not endanger life or property; and
4. Disregard regulations governing direction of movement or turning in specified directions.
Texas law appears to be similar . CHAPTER 546 Authorized Emergency Vehicles Sec. 546.001. Permissible Conduct Likewise, Florida and Minnesota

Pennsylvania is a bit stricter. The EMS driver must come to a complete stop, not just slow down, but may then proceed "with due caution". Title 75 § 3105. Drivers of emergency vehicles.
(h) Limitations relating to school buses.--Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (b)(4), the driver of an emergency vehicle shall come to a complete stop when a school bus flashes its red signal lights and activates its side stop signal arms. After stopping, the driver of the emergency vehicle may pass the school bus only after exercising due diligence and caution for the safety of the students in a manner that will not risk the safety of the students.
I haven't looked up any other states.

EDIT: Ohio requires emergency vehicles to stop. A 2005 Bulletin from Ohio Dep't of Education says: "ORC 4511.75 requires the driver of a vehicle to stop at least ten feet from the front when meeting the school bus or ten feet from the rear when overtaking a school bus which is stopped for the purpose of receiving or discharging any school child, and shall not proceed until such school bus resumes motion, or until signaled by the school bus driver. There are no exceptions to this law for emergency or public safety vehicles."

Last edited by FredMau; 05-03-22 at 10:35 AM. Reason: Add Ohio
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Old 05-03-22, 10:10 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
Except the poster said a country 2 lane road, which means traffic could get by on either side if they straddle the center line?
How wide are the lanes? How wide is the bus? I drive and ride on some pretty narrow 2 lane country roads near where I live. Unless I see evidence to the contrary, I would assume that a school bus driver probably knows where to stop and why, and some of these reasons might involve some very specific knowledge about the particular stop.

Honestly, this not being School Bus Driver Forums, I'm not particularly interested in the legalities here. The laws will be set by the state and perhaps local ordinance. If you want to spend a bunch of time looking for them in each state, knock yourself out.
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Old 05-03-22, 12:02 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
But if they straddle the middle of the road doesn't that give a car room to pass either on the right or the left?
Originally Posted by jon c.
Not on country roads around here.
Grew up in southern Indiana and, oh, let me tell you about narrow country roads. A vehicles meets an oncoming vehicle, and it wasn't at all unusual for one or both vehicles to have the right tires off on the shoulder in order to get past each other.

THESE days, most states have adopted AASHTO "Green Book" standards that classify streets and roads as "local" "collector" "arterial" etc, with generally a minimum of 10' per lane and a 2' shoulder, except 9'/lane for "low traffic" roads (<250 cars/day) with a speed limit of 40 MPH or less.

But, AASHTO Green Book has only been around since 2001 or so, Probably plenty of pre-AASHTO country roads still out there. And ESPECIALLY in Indiana, I can think of several roads that probably haven't been maintained since the Roosevelt administration (And I mean Teddy not Frank. LOL). Oh, the days of riding a late '60s "Columbia Tourister" 3-speed 6.3 miles to the local town in one direction or 4.2 miles to a "Blue&White" truckstop along I-70 in the other direction.

I used to start out every bicycle trip on Indiana country roads with a short prayer: "Hail Mary, holy mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death". And I'm not even Catholic. Seemed to work, though, because I'm here to tell about it. Or maybe it had more to do with, "God looks after fools, drunkards, and people riding bicycles on Indiana country roads".

Edit: AASHTO = American Association of State Highway Transportation Officials.

Last edited by FredMau; 05-03-22 at 12:05 PM. Reason: AASHTO
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Old 05-03-22, 12:32 PM
  #73  
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So police will charge you with wanton endangerment, and when you spout off to the judge, judge will swat you like a fly.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/Gener...265/Section13L
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Old 05-03-22, 01:00 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by grizzly59
So police will charge you with wanton endangerment, and when you spout off to the judge, judge will swat you like a fly.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/Gener...265/Section13L
Rule #1 is, don't spout off to a judge. They have this thing called a "gavel". You don't.
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Old 05-03-22, 04:41 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
But if they straddle the middle of the road doesn't that give a car room to pass either on the right or the left?
A driver could, I suppose, but they would be off the road. The two lane country roads around here are just wide enough - the fog is an inch or two off the edge of the asphalt.

I also have one that stops at the entrance to the subdivision and blocks all lanes; the road the bus is on and the subdivision entrance. And I am OK with all of it.

Last edited by Tusk; 05-03-22 at 04:47 PM.
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