unterhausen

Yeah, I think giant is the only bike company of any size that has their own factory. I have a tube bender from the Cannondale factory that used to be 70 miles south of here. Sad. Wasn't that long ago they were still building frames. Companies marketing other companies bikes come and go.

It's interesting the OP's bike has bocama lugs. I was starting to be convinced it was an Asian frame. I suppose it still could be. Didn't I say up-thread the C&V guys would be better at ID?

Andrew R Stewart 

Not exactly the point I was trying to make. Of course there are many factories that produce many different brands. Very few bike brands own their own factories (and interestingly the 3rd biggest brand here in the US, Giant, also does contract work for their competitor's too.) But I seriously doubt that beyond a very few brands that do the after fabrication paint/decaling the rest of the "house labeled brands/contracted out" brands do zero after factory work on the frames. And most of those don't even do the component build ups. The "brand" is a sales office, a leased distribution space and a website, not a work shop/assembly line model at all. Andy

unterhausen

I was wondering if that was what you meant.

CFDJ

Does the Bacoma Lugs narrow down the Search? I'm trying to track down a some makers who used Bacoma lugs to narrow down my search. I did find another small marking on the BB lug but I don't think it's big enough to be identifiable. looks to just be a lowercase L

unterhausen

It narrows it down to Europe, maybe. They were from France, but I'm sure they would happily ship to anyone with money
I think that the Japanese probably would just have used Japanese lugs, they were nicer than the European ones.

Andrew R Stewart 

Back in 1978 BCM lugs were in the US for fame builders. IIRC Cycle Imports (of Cornish MI) offered them along with Prugnat too. So, the presence of BCM lugs won't eliminate USA builders. What does, IMO, eliminate USA builders is the low grade of the joining prep. Pretty much any USA builder who would have used lugs back then would be a small job shop at the largest to a one man show at the smallest. I seriously doubt any of these shops would not do a better job of the tube miters.

I think one will find that many brands had BCM lugs.

French shells were also available here but rarely used. I have no specific memory of any USA built frames with French BBs but I'm sure there's a few out there. Very few. Andy

unterhausen

This is true, and I have never thought it was anything other than a factory built frame given the interior bb pics. I think the French shell would indicate France, mostly

Andrew R Stewart 

Eric- I didn't think you thought otherwise. It is the OP that is questioning all this. Andy

CFDJ

You did say they would be better and I also have a different thread in C&V about this frame too. They're also as baffled as we are here but a different point of view has answered many of my questions that's informed the other thread. C&V thread

CFDJ

Of the frames from asia in this timeframe, what would be the companies that imported widly to Europe so the most likely to to have this bracket threading. Does this look at all like belgium to any of you?

unterhausen

I think that almost all Asian bikes have come with English BB shells. I think the French were perfectly happy to sell English threaded bb's. But it's certainly possible some company supplied French lugs/shells to an Asian company.

Do you have a way to measure tube diameters? I'm curious if it's metric tubing. What size seat post does it take?

CFDJ

The seatpost is 26mm (could easily be 26.2-26.5mm since I read that's a french standard back then) and the head tube is 30mm. I can get the rest in a bit.

Andrew R Stewart 

I don't like to judge a tube's OD by its ID. Especially in bike making where seat tube reaming is a common step. The comment about the post size having a .5mm range suggests a poor ability to measure. The best way to determine a post size is with trying various sizes of posts. Since the top of the seat tube gets a lot of heat and often in two or more separate procedures the ID can, and often does, deform so a reaming can be needed to get the ID back to round enough to fit and hold tight a post. Sometimes a bit more reaming is needed and the post size is picked to fit that. It is not uncommon to have the ID at the top of the seat tube to be smaller than deeper in the ST, or better said the post that fits the top of the ST might not be the best fit further down the ST.

By a 30mm head tube I assume you mean the ID is that. This is a spec that the headset's press fit calls out. Again the after reaming ID has little to do with the OD. Remember for the same OD a bike tube can have different wall thicknesses. Andy

CFDJ

Sorry here are all the updated Tube diameters measured by the OD

TopTube 26mm
Down tube 28mm
seat tube 28mm (with a 26mm seatpost, Maybe not original but it fits well)
Headtube 30.2mm (The headset parts are all threaded french and the sterrer is 22mm)

JohnDThompson 

Those are metric tube diameter, which were most common on French frames prior to the early 80s. Zeus (Spain) frames also used metric threads and diameters.

CFDJ

Thanks again for all your insight! As I've taken some space from obsessing about this I came across a Swiss brand I wasn't aware of previously. Do you have any info on a brand called Titan or Oria Tubing? I saw a handful of the bikes online that has some shocking similarities but couldn't find too much info on their history or catalogues.

Andrew R Stewart 

Back in the beginning of motor vehicles (and air planes) many countries had their own steel processors and thus a "country" tube brand. For many reasons (politics, economics, war) some of these tubing brands survived and others went by the wayside. You might post this question in the C&V sub forum. Andy