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Track Racing Frames and Complete Bikes

Old 11-23-14, 11:24 AM
  #151  
Quinn8it
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Having never seen that All City in person- it actually doesn't look half bad for a frame on that price point..
Geometry looks decent- and I like that it's low/long like most carbon frames instead of the old Square Geo so many steel/alu frames go with..
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Old 11-23-14, 11:53 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by 700wheel View Post
Never heard of these guys before.

As an engineer I am intrigued by their quote "Instead of the industrial TIG weld we've applied a smoothweld at all the joints." What is a smoothweld?
lol. i as well see a lot of these bull**** statements tacked on to products (can't help it, imma machinist). i attribute it to separating the 'design team' from the actual end product until it arrives off the boat.
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Old 11-23-14, 03:56 PM
  #153  
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Not sure if it is the case with this manufacturer but with others where ive seen smooth welds referenced it just means a filler has been put over the top of the weld and then sanded down to make for a smooth finish. The actual welding process is the same though!

you can see it on this Boardman TK20

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Old 11-23-14, 07:12 PM
  #154  
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perfectly smooth welds are just sanded, you shouldn't need a secondary filler, maybe a high build primer?
Giant and Felt weld beads have the "stack of dimes" look that people associate with AL welding
Specialized and Low have a flatter bead, you can get it pretty easy by using a smaller filler rod slower movement.
Thats assuming they're even hand made, machine welds are usually constant feed and will be perfectly uniform with no dime look.

I weld, I prefer the flat un-sanded beads like Low and Specialized. Sanding, at least in the racecar/performance welding world, is usually to hide something that didn't get welded great.
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Old 11-23-14, 08:14 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by McRussellPants View Post
perfectly smooth welds are just sanded, you shouldn't need a secondary filler, maybe a high build primer?
I've read of manufacturers using some filler, not sure what it is though. Sanding welds perfectly smooth tends to remove some of the parent material at the toe of a fillet.
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Old 12-11-14, 01:38 PM
  #156  
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FINALLY, someone at Fuji fell on their head and obtained some aesthetic sensibilities!

From this:



To this:



Not perfect, but MUCH better.
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Old 12-11-14, 06:27 PM
  #157  
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i wanted a moots track bike to match my moots road so i contacted them. they said they would make a track frame and it would cost about $4000 hahahaha...

they use the compact frame w/ a tapered ht and track drop outs. they said they use "track geo" but i didn't ask for details.

heres a photo from their IG account showing a track build (no photos of the full build)


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Old 12-11-14, 07:52 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
FINALLY, someone at Fuji fell on their head and obtained some aesthetic sensibilities!

Not perfect, but MUCH better.
Pretty sizeable drop in frameset cost.


I was going to grab one so I can turn my current bike into fixie nerd bike. Value is pretty solid compared to everything else.
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Old 12-11-14, 08:19 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
i wanted a moots track bike to match my moots road so i contacted them. they said they would make a track frame and it would cost about $4000 hahahaha...

they use the compact frame w/ a tapered ht and track drop outs. they said they use "track geo" but i didn't ask for details.

heres a photo from their IG account showing a track build (no photos of the full build)

You'd have to carry 3 chains with you in order to get various gear combinations to keep the wheel on those tiny dropouts.
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Old 12-12-14, 12:01 AM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
You'd have to carry 3 chains with you in order to get various gear combinations to keep the wheel on those tiny dropouts.
Yep, and no repleacable inserts for when your dropouts get chewed up. And that lip will make it harder to get a wrench on the axle nuts.
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Old 12-14-14, 12:13 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by TurtleRacer View Post
Yep, and no repleacable inserts for when your dropouts get chewed up. And that lip will make it harder to get a wrench on the axle nuts.
my money is that anyone who is "buying a moots track to match moots road" is rolling "ratcheting socket style" anyway?
Ti is a bad material for track racing dropouts in general - but that's some of what you pay for when going to a non-track specialist manuf... oh well. I bet it'll be a great looking bike that is loved and ridden plenty. It'll be better looking than my scratched up Giant, and it'll also get ridden more than said Giant
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Old 12-14-14, 12:37 PM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
my money is that anyone who is "buying a moots track to match moots road" is rolling "ratcheting socket style" anyway?
Ti is a bad material for track racing dropouts in general - but that's some of what you pay for when going to a non-track specialist manuf... oh well. I bet it'll be a great looking bike that is loved and ridden plenty. It'll be better looking than my scratched up Giant, and it'll also get ridden more than said Giant
Actually, Ti is a great material for track dropouts because it's soft and your nuts can get a good bite on them to hold. The bad part is being non-replaceable.

Tiemeyer and Felt TK1 use Ti dropouts and I never needed a chain tensioner for either one, even during standing starts.

I can't recall about the TK1, but I know that Tiemeyer droputs are replaceable. Actually I bought some extras from Mr. Tiemeyer before he retired.
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Old 12-17-14, 07:01 PM
  #163  
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Pinarello 2015

MAAT 60.1 ? CICLI PINARELLO S.p.A.

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Old 12-17-14, 07:33 PM
  #164  
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There's a good discussion on these MAATs on the facebook tracksprinting group. Some of the Brits use them due to sponsorship and they're not really happy with them
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Old 12-17-14, 10:08 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
There's a good discussion on these MAATs on the facebook tracksprinting group. Some of the Brits use them due to sponsorship and they're not really happy with them
What are the complaints?

It lists a 19mm fork offset. Wow. That's the shortest I've ever seen. The Bianchi Pista's 25mm was the shortest that I knew of before today.
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Old 12-17-14, 11:47 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
What are the complaints?
Well, I went in and tracked down the post and lo and behold some of the comments are gone. You can see a comment thanking a couple of guys for their input, but the input is gone. I know it wasn't a glowing recommendation because I had a friend looking at getting one at the time and I pointed him to the discussion. Basically they aren't the stiffest things out there, and for the price, there's much better options. I will admit they do catch your eye though!
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Old 12-18-14, 01:32 AM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
Well, I went in and tracked down the post and lo and behold some of the comments are gone. You can see a comment thanking a couple of guys for their input, but the input is gone. I know it wasn't a glowing recommendation because I had a friend looking at getting one at the time and I pointed him to the discussion. Basically they aren't the stiffest things out there, and for the price, there's much better options. I will admit they do catch your eye though!
Yeah, they are silly expensive.

Expensive cars go faster. Expensive bikes...not so much.
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Old 12-18-14, 09:14 AM
  #168  
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yeah with the MAAT it kind of seems like Pinarello tried to churn out a superbike - or at least sell it like it's a superbike - but without the deep development that's required.
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Old 12-18-14, 10:06 AM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
yeah with the MAAT it kind of seems like Pinarello tried to churn out a superbike - or at least sell it like it's a superbike - but without the deep development that's required.
The funny thing is, it's not that hard to make a really good sprint bike. Just start with some basic requirements:

Make it with:
- Round seatpost
- 74 degree head and seat tubes
- 30-34mm offset fork
- 50mm BB drop
- Strong rear triangle and BB area.
- Long rear dropouts made with replaceable Ti plates
- Ridiculously stiff.
- Retail Price for carbon frame/fork $1,500 with a basic paintjob (one color) (FYI: Some paint jobs add $200 to the price of a frame...I don't need all of that!)

Avoid:
- Aero seatpost
- Integrated seatpost
- Proprietary stem systems
- Really short head tubes. Not long, not short, just normal.
- Charging a absurdly high price for it.
- Logo overload

VERY few bikes match all of the above.

BT Stealth is one that matches most of the specs (besides price). It's so expensive. But, that's probably why they can ask for so much $$ is because they know what they have!
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Old 01-01-15, 09:20 PM
  #170  
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well, what does everyone think?
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Old 01-01-15, 09:36 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by sergioflorez View Post
well, what does everyone think?
Got a link to tech specs and geometry? Right now it looks like it has a road fork with a 45mm offset and more importantly very short rear dropouts.
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Old 01-01-15, 10:08 PM
  #172  
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CAAD10 TRACK 1 - CAAD10 - ELITE ROAD - ROAD - BIKES - 2015
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Old 01-01-15, 10:12 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Got a link to tech specs and geometry? Right now it looks like it has a road fork with a 45mm offset and more importantly very short rear dropouts.
Correct. CAAD10 TRACK 1 - CAAD10 - ELITE ROAD - ROAD - BIKES - 2015

Also note "Frame CAAD10 Track, SmartFormed 6069 Alloy, BB30 w /threaded adapter"
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Old 01-01-15, 11:31 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by MarkWW View Post
Correct. CAAD10 TRACK 1 - CAAD10 - ELITE ROAD - ROAD - BIKES - 2015

Also note "Frame CAAD10 Track, SmartFormed 6069 Alloy, BB30 w /threaded adapter"
+1

I personally don't like it...even for enduros. There are better options out there.

I like the wheels, cranks, saddle and chain. That's about it.
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Old 01-02-15, 01:26 AM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
The funny thing is, it's not that hard to make a really good sprint bike. Just start with some basic requirements:

Make it with:
- Round seatpost
- 74 degree head and seat tubes
- 30-34mm offset fork
- 50mm BB drop
- Strong rear triangle and BB area.
- Long rear dropouts made with replaceable Ti plates
- Ridiculously stiff.
- Retail Price for carbon frame/fork $1,500 with a basic paintjob (one color) (FYI: Some paint jobs add $200 to the price of a frame...I don't need all of that!)
I second the idea of Ti dropout plates. I would like them done in the BT style tho, where it's a large metal plate bolted to the frame. I hate those little dropout inserts. The plates are easy enough to get sourced from a local machinist if need be and can be made in aluminum as well. I had a set of Ti plates made up for my BT by a guy. Took him all of 20 minutes to put each one on a flatbed scanner and have them cut on a waterjet. Ti is great not because it's soft as Carlton stated above. It's actually quite hard. It's positive attributes are that it's hard, elastic, and tough. This causes it to wear well, yet deform so that track nuts can bite, but the metal won't break loose because it is tough, keeping the nuts from slipping. I never got around to using them because I had yet to wear out the aluminum plate dropouts.

Last edited by taras0000; 01-02-15 at 01:39 AM.
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