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Old 01-02-15, 07:51 PM
  #1726  
gtrob
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technically yes a closer wheel to the frame will measure less drag. Every wheel/frame will be different. If you look at a P3/P5, you can barely fit a credit card in there. I think the gains are only there if you are that close, not 15mm vs 20mm.

So unless you plan to build the chain already on the cog, you can't get it that close. IMO don't even worry about it, size the chain for the most common gears you run.
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Old 01-04-15, 03:36 PM
  #1727  
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Has anyone got any experience with those gel pads you can put under your handlebar tape? I'm having a problem with my right hand going numb at the moment (specifically while motor-pacing, so i'm putting it down to the slightly higher g's for longer). I do have a tendency towards tingly hands, but its at the point where i eventually can't feel my fingers at all (not ideal at 55kph+, 20cm from a tailpipe).

Ive tried gloves with gel previously, which made things worse, so i'm a bit cagey about the under-tape stuff, but any input would be valued.
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Old 01-04-15, 03:54 PM
  #1728  
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Originally Posted by Velocirapture View Post
Has anyone got any experience with those gel pads you can put under your handlebar tape? I'm having a problem with my right hand going numb at the moment (specifically while motor-pacing, so i'm putting it down to the slightly higher g's for longer). I do have a tendency towards tingly hands, but its at the point where i eventually can't feel my fingers at all (not ideal at 55kph+, 20cm from a tailpipe).

Ive tried gloves with gel previously, which made things worse, so i'm a bit cagey about the under-tape stuff, but any input would be valued.

I had the same problem of aching hands / fingers if i was riding for about 30 minutes + without a break. The gel pads helped and i dont have the problem now. However they do make the bars noticeably thicker which i suspect some people wont get on with.
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Old 01-05-15, 11:09 AM
  #1729  
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Hello Everyone! New Guy Here, and have a question about pedal choice

What pedals are most of you guys/gals riding on the track
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Old 01-05-15, 12:04 PM
  #1730  
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No one pedal is riden by most of us. In general, Look Keos, Shimano SPD-SLs, and Speedplays are well-represented.

Also there's a thread for small random questions.
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Old 01-05-15, 02:07 PM
  #1731  
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Moving this into the random questions thread.
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Old 01-05-15, 02:09 PM
  #1732  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
No one pedal is riden by most of us. In general, Look Keos, Shimano SPD-SLs, and Speedplays are well-represented.

Also there's a thread for small random questions.
+1

Spedifically:
- Look Keo 2 Max
- Any Shimano SPD-SL (get the set that suits your budget. Past or present models)
- Speedplay Zero or Zero Track
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Old 01-05-15, 03:12 PM
  #1733  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
+1

Spedifically:
- Look Keo 2 Max
- Any Shimano SPD-SL (get the set that suits your budget. Past or present models)
- Speedplay Zero or Zero Track
+1 for Speedplay Zero.
-1,000,000 for any other speedplay besides track.
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Old 01-05-15, 03:33 PM
  #1734  
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Originally Posted by WhatsYoCadence View Post
+1 for Speedplay Zero.
-1,000,000 for any other speedplay besides track.
Have you ridden both? I have.

The only difference between Speedplay Zero and Zero track is that the ramp off of the pedal is steeper which requires more pressure to exit. Other than that, they are exactly the same. It is impossible to pull out of the pedal if you don't twist your foot. You'd have to literally pull screws out of the cleat or pedal to cause a release. So, only bad pedaling form will cause a release.

You can pull vertically (without twisting) out of Shimano SPD-SL or any Look pedals if you are strong enough, even with fresh cleats.

There are different pros/cons of each pedal system, but the Speedplay Track aren't that much different than the normal Zeros.

I use Shimano SPD-SL because the platform feels bigger which is great during standing starts.
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Old 01-05-15, 05:21 PM
  #1735  
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Thanks guys,

Carleton, You are Atlanta based correct? Im really wanting to come down this spring and do the certification class, and slowly start pseudo racing
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Old 01-05-15, 05:49 PM
  #1736  
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Originally Posted by Lunchbox27 View Post
Thanks guys,

Carleton, You are Atlanta based correct? Im really wanting to come down this spring and do the certification class, and slowly start pseudo racing
Yes! I just heard today that there is a class sometime this month: Special Winter 2015 Beginners Class | The Dick Lane Velodrome

Even if you don't race, come train with us, help out, and watch the racing. Actual racing is like 20% of all that we do there

"Winter Training" starts on Wednesday and occurs every Wednesday till the season starts in April. Basically, they sweep off the track turn on the lights and people come and ride and talk. It won't occur if it's lower than 40 degrees at 6PM. They usually tweet yea/nay if it's iffy: https://twitter.com/dicklanevelo Even if you aren't certified to ride, just come hang out and watch one Wednesday night.
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Old 01-05-15, 06:26 PM
  #1737  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Even if you aren't certified to ride, just come hang out and watch one Wednesday night.

Certified? I know Giordonna has such a requirement, but does DLV require everyone to take a course?
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Old 01-05-15, 09:12 PM
  #1738  
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Certified? I know Giordonna has such a requirement, but does DLV require everyone to take a course?
Absolutely!

Actually, the first Girodana riders were certified at DLV before Giordana! And any DLV certification will get you into any track in the US being that DLV is noticably steep at 36 degrees.

Also, you should not go on ANY track without taking the course. Every track that I know of has such a rule. It's a safety precaution. Especially with other riders on the track. You must learn what to expect and what is expected of you. For example, what do you do when a 200+ lb sprinter is barreling behind you at 40+ mph (65kph) on a $10,000 bike full gas? Do you pull up track and let him go under you? Do you hold your line? Do you come off the track? You have 3 seconds to decide.

Also, it will be very apparent that you don't know what you are doing and the locals will call you out on it and ask you to get off the track.
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Old 01-05-15, 10:31 PM
  #1739  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Absolutely!

Actually, the first Girodana riders were certified at DLV before Giordana! And any DLV certification will get you into any track in the US being that DLV is noticably steep at 36 degrees.

Also, you should not go on ANY track without taking the course. Every track that I know of has such a rule. It's a safety precaution. Especially with other riders on the track. You must learn what to expect and what is expected of you. For example, what do you do when a 200+ lb sprinter is barreling behind you at 40+ mph (65kph) on a $10,000 bike full gas? Do you pull up track and let him go under you? Do you hold your line? Do you come off the track? You have 3 seconds to decide.

Also, it will be very apparent that you don't know what you are doing and the locals will call you out on it and ask you to get off the track.
Well that may screw up my DLV visit plans. This makes it hard for even experienced riders to visit other tracks.

Back in the day, I raced Kissena(17 degrees), Kenosha(27 degrees), T-Town(28 degrees), and L.A.(33 degrees) and never heard of a certification course. I know T-Town still doesn't have such a requirement, so I assumed it was only the new short tracks that were worried about rider certification. T-town does offer a 4hr USAC approved rider education clinic that is worth upgrade points, but attendance isn't required at all. If you have a license, then you can race at T-Town. If you screw up, the officials will counsel you immediately after the race. Anyway, I was planning on making the long and boring trip down to SC to get a Giordonna certification one weekend in the spring, unless of course they take pity on me and accept my racing resume. Does a Giordonna cert count at DLV? What about a Giordonna waiver?

As far as your sprinter question, the answer is it depends on where you both are on the track. If we are both in a sprint up high exiting turn two then it's a mad dash to the sprinters line. If I'm off the front and getting caught then I hold my line and let him pass on my right. If I'm just warming up above the stayers line then he is responsible for his own craziness. Although, I'm not sure what his weight or what his bike costs matters; a 150lb guy on a $500 bike gets pretty upset if you cause him to crash.
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Old 01-05-15, 10:59 PM
  #1740  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Have you ridden both? I have.
I think you misread what I wrote.
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Old 01-05-15, 11:59 PM
  #1741  
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Well that may screw up my DLV visit plans. This makes it hard for even experienced riders to visit other tracks.

Back in the day, I raced Kissena(17 degrees), Kenosha(27 degrees), T-Town(28 degrees), and L.A.(33 degrees) and never heard of a certification course. I know T-Town still doesn't have such a requirement, so I assumed it was only the new short tracks that were worried about rider certification. T-town does offer a 4hr USAC approved rider education clinic that is worth upgrade points, but attendance isn't required at all. If you have a license, then you can race at T-Town. If you screw up, the officials will counsel you immediately after the race. Anyway, I was planning on making the long and boring trip down to SC to get a Giordonna certification one weekend in the spring, unless of course they take pity on me and accept my racing resume. Does a Giordonna cert count at DLV? What about a Giordonna waiver?

As far as your sprinter question, the answer is it depends on where you both are on the track. If we are both in a sprint up high exiting turn two then it's a mad dash to the sprinters line. If I'm off the front and getting caught then I hold my line and let him pass on my right. If I'm just warming up above the stayers line then he is responsible for his own craziness. Although, I'm not sure what his weight or what his bike costs matters; a 150lb guy on a $500 bike gets pretty upset if you cause him to crash.
Forgive me! I thought you were a rookie!

The certifications go by different names in different places: Certification class, beginners class, rider education, into to the track, etc... it's all the same thing

Or if you are anything over CAT5 for track.

Giordana got really strict with theirs but anybody from DLV got to ride with no problem. We just proved to them that we raced at DLV by sending them a URL to our online score keeping system as proof.

If you've raced before then just tell that to the track director (Rob Evans) when you get here at DLV and you should be fine
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Old 01-06-15, 12:09 AM
  #1742  
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Originally Posted by WhatsYoCadence View Post
I think you misread what I wrote.
You wrote:

Originally Posted by WhatsYoCadence View Post
+1 for Speedplay Zero.
-1,000,000 for any other speedplay besides track.
"-1,000,000" as though only Speedplay Track Zeros were the only Speedplays suitable for track. The normal Zeros are fine for track.

11.4 gave this great explanation back in 2006 (the pedals have been discussed here several times since 2005):

Originally Posted by 11.4 View Post
The only difference between the two pedals (except for color) is in the angle of the release point. By this I mean that if you look at the groove around the side of the pedal (that the cleat clips into), at the ends of the groove (where the cleat basically cams out of the groove), the end of the groove is almost vertical in the track pedals and sloped on all other Zero's. The sloping surface means that you get some warning as you start to release, and it makes the release a little more progressive. The vertical track surface means that you hit that surface and stop, then kick to release. Now that sounds good in theory, but in practice, it doesn't really stop you from releasing any more than the road version and when you do release, it happens completely unexpectedly. Some track riders use them simply because they are labeled as for track usage, but most experienced track riders either don't use Speedplays at all or just use the road one because it at least gives you some warning as you start rotating up that sloped cam surface.

You probably know that the cleats are the same for all the pedals, and the spring tension is defined in the cleat (as is flotation range of course). All the pedal does is hold the cleat, and in the case of the track pedals, it defines the range of rotation through which you will go from clipped to fully released (which is only a matter of 2-3 degrees anyway). Frankly, I think the track Speedplays are a big hoo-hah. If you like Speedplays on the road, and ride the stuff you describe, then they're fine to use. The only negatives I have with them for road use are that if you pronate, your cleat starts to groove the pedal axle, and the cleats aren't as stable a platform as on some other road (or track) pedals. But that's all personal to the individual rider. If you really want protection from unclipping, I'd suggest you search for past threads on Dura Ace SPD-R pedals (including how to mount toe straps on them) or for clip and strap pedals. MKS has started making a really nice traditional slotted cleat that fits a Look three-hole shoe drilling and that matches perfectly with their new revised pedals -- it's a very nice setup if you don't mind clips and straps. You can of course go with Dura Ace PD-7400 pedals, but people are asking ridiculous prices for them these days.
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Old 01-06-15, 01:10 AM
  #1743  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
You wrote:



"-1,000,000" as though only Speedplay Track Zeros were the only Speedplays suitable for track. The normal Zeros are fine for track.

11.4 gave this great explanation back in 2006 (the pedals have been discussed here several times since 2005):

Ok, you didn't misread it. You misunderstood it.


I meant they're both totally great for the track and that all other speed plays suck. I myself use Speedplay Zero and love the system.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:06 AM
  #1744  
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Hi

Just got myself a set of Easton EC90 Carbon Track bars, anybody using them and what kind of grips would you recommend or is bar tape better.
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Old 01-06-15, 07:08 AM
  #1745  
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Originally Posted by treborm View Post
Hi

Just got myself a set of Easton EC90 Carbon Track bars, anybody using them and what kind of grips would you recommend or is bar tape better.
Does the grip area have texture (like sand paper) or is it smooth? If it's like sand paper, then they are designed to be used as is with gloves or bare-handed. When I used my EC90s, I used them bare-handed most of the time.



Most have the texture, but I've seen some early models that had a smooth grip area.
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Old 01-06-15, 07:43 AM
  #1746  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Does the grip area have texture (like sand paper) or is it smooth? If it's like sand paper, then they are designed to be used as is with gloves or bare-handed. When I used my EC90s, I used them bare-handed most of the time.



Most have the texture, but I've seen some early models that had a smooth grip area.
Yeah they have the texture, gloves it is,

Thanks
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Old 01-06-15, 08:38 AM
  #1747  
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pretty funny picture to show off those bars, carleton.
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Old 01-06-15, 08:39 AM
  #1748  
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Originally Posted by treborm View Post
Yeah they have the texture, gloves it is,

Thanks
Consider soft/supple gloves like baseball batting gloves or (to get fancy) golf gloves. No need for Keirin gloves or expensive "track" gloves.
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Old 01-06-15, 08:39 AM
  #1749  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
pretty funny picture to show off those bars, carleton.
I know, I know. That's what I could quickly find via Google Image Search that showed the texture
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Old 01-07-15, 11:59 AM
  #1750  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I know, I know. That's what I could quickly find via Google Image Search that showed the texture
has anybody here used or seen someone use a bmw gangsta in a track race?
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