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Old 01-10-16, 07:31 PM
  #2951  
carleton
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
I like chain tensioners and have always used them. Not sure if they are the reason but I have never had a wheel slip, and I have a decent start. Even the finicky little NJS one's are fine, you just can't manhandle them or you will strip them instantly.
Knowing you in person, I think that you would slip some wheels if you didn't.

For those reading:

"Slipping wheels" means that during a high-torque event like a standing start or jump from a slow roll, the rider yanks the chain so hard that the rear wheel slides forward in the dropout. The right side only. This jams the wheel to the left and it rubs the chainstay and causes the wheel to stop as though brakes were applied.

This is also why, when using chain tensioners, you really only need on on the right side.

There are two types of tensioners: Pull and Push.

1) PULL: The "lollipop" or BMX style. This hooks on the axle and is affixed to the dropout from the outside. You tighten it and it pulls the axle backwards and doesn't allow it to slide forwards when the chain pulls.




2) PUSH: Internal/Integrated style. This is a screw that is built into the dropout and you screw it (away from the front of the bike) and it pushes the wheel axle away from the frame. It essentially shortens the dropout and won't allow the wheel to come forward when set. This is the modern style. You'll see this on mid and high-end bikes.






"Why does it slip?"

Sometimes, you have a combination of steel wheel nuts and steel (or steel plated) dropouts, the metals are both so hard, that they actually slip against each other if given enough force. Higher-end bike manufacturers (LOOK 496, Felt TK1, Tiemeyer) mitigate this by using titanium (or titanium plated) dropouts. Titanium is strong, but softer than steel, so the steel wheel nut "bites" into the dropout and holds tighter.

So, when you read about Ti Dropouts, it's not a "bling" thing. It's a functional thing.
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Old 01-10-16, 07:35 PM
  #2952  
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Further...

Torque is a function of strength and weight of the rider. Simply put, strong guys make a lot of torque. Heavy guys make a lot of torque. Heavy guys that are strong make a helluva lot of torque.

I've always been a heavy guy. I was a 195 lb HS athlete...and got heavier after I graduated. When I rode single-speed and fixed gear street bikes, I'd have to use tensioners simply because I'd pull wheels when driving hard up hills and whatnot. So, that abnormally high torque was more a function of my weight than my power.
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Old 01-11-16, 02:21 PM
  #2953  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Further...

Torque is a function of strength and weight of the rider. Simply put, strong guys make a lot of torque. Heavy guys make a lot of torque. Heavy guys that are strong make a helluva lot of torque.

I've always been a heavy guy. I was a 195 lb HS athlete...and got heavier after I graduated. When I rode single-speed and fixed gear street bikes, I'd have to use tensioners simply because I'd pull wheels when driving hard up hills and whatnot. So, that abnormally high torque was more a function of my weight than my power.
Yeah, and I've never been over 180 lbs and usually race between 170-175, but still for me it's better safe than sorry with the tensioners. I've seen a lot of awkward looking crashes (that hurt) from slipped wheels at standing starts. Sometimes the really low speed crashes can hurt worse than high speed, where of you're lucky you will slide.
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Old 01-11-16, 02:53 PM
  #2954  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Yeah, and I've never been over 180 lbs and usually race between 170-175, but still for me it's better safe than sorry with the tensioners. I've seen a lot of awkward looking crashes (that hurt) from slipped wheels at standing starts. Sometimes the really low speed crashes can hurt worse than high speed, where of you're lucky you will slide.
You fall in to the "strong rider" category. So, you'd need them. I'm in the "fat rider" category.
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Old 01-11-16, 04:03 PM
  #2955  
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i slipped a wheel not knowing it happened. i was thinking why does my gear feel so big #pause and it happened to be too tight of a chain.



standard track bolts...

so i bought these...



the tensioners on my current frame are seized. i should probably blast that area with wd-40 so i can use them just in case. i rarely change gearing even for warm up...



i miss having a disc because it made that cool whoosh whoosh sound lol.

Last edited by Impreza_aL; 01-11-16 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 01-11-16, 04:21 PM
  #2956  
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yeah, these suck for holding wheels.



And these help somewhat.



Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
i miss having a disc because it made that cool whoosh whoosh sound lol.
Woosh sound OP.


Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
the tensioners on my current frame are seized. i should probably blast that area with wd-40 so i can use them just in case. i rarely change gearing even for warm up...
You are just hurting yourself. You are working too hard and wasting energy you could use for racing. As the saying goes, "Train how you race and race how you train." You should get into the habit of warming up and switching wheels and whatnot. That way when you have to do it in a big event, it won't be frustrating.

To extend that: Weeks leading up to big events like Nationals, it's advisable to do your workouts as though you would get no track time at the event. So, warm up 100% on rollers then race your race day or do your workout. I asked an Olympic racer if it's even possible to do a kilo with only rollers as a warmup. No standing starts, no rolling jumps. Just rollers. His response was, "Yes. You learn to do it and your performance won't be diminished."
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Old 01-11-16, 07:42 PM
  #2957  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
You are just hurting yourself. You are working too hard and wasting energy you could use for racing. As the saying goes, "Train how you race and race how you train." You should get into the habit of warming up and switching wheels and whatnot. That way when you have to do it in a big event, it won't be frustrating.

To extend that: Weeks leading up to big events like Nationals, it's advisable to do your workouts as though you would get no track time at the event. So, warm up 100% on rollers then race your race day or do your workout. I asked an Olympic racer if it's even possible to do a kilo with only rollers as a warmup. No standing starts, no rolling jumps. Just rollers. His response was, "Yes. You learn to do it and your performance won't be diminished."
it's only weekly night racing not too concerned about results because i just want a good workout. the turnout has been pretty low on endurance nights and the new regime at the track are a bunch of egocentric/crooks...
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Old 01-11-16, 08:42 PM
  #2958  
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Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
What make/model are those?
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Old 01-11-16, 09:20 PM
  #2959  
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Originally Posted by Impreza_aL View Post
it's only weekly night racing not too concerned about results because i just want a good workout. the turnout has been pretty low on endurance nights and the new regime at the track are a bunch of egocentric/crooks...
In Japan the club guys hardly ever changed gears for warm up. I was stupefied at first, but that's just how they do it.
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Old 01-11-16, 10:50 PM
  #2960  
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Originally Posted by MarkWW View Post
What make/model are those?
they are made for phil wood hubs.

Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
In Japan the club guys hardly ever changed gears for warm up. I was stupefied at first, but that's just how they do it.
if it's good enough for the og japanese cats then it's good enough for me...
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Old 01-12-16, 07:39 PM
  #2961  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
To extend that: Weeks leading up to big events like Nationals, it's advisable to do your workouts as though you would get no track time at the event. So, warm up 100% on rollers then race your race day or do your workout. I asked an Olympic racer if it's even possible to do a kilo with only rollers as a warmup. No standing starts, no rolling jumps. Just rollers. His response was, "Yes. You learn to do it and your performance won't be diminished."
One of the former Canadian National team guys (Jim Fisher) would spend all day on the rollers the day of the Kilo and TS. He must've ridden 40km prior to each event just warming up on rollers all day.
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Old 01-12-16, 10:28 PM
  #2962  
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Regarding warming up and staying warm. Remember the British Team had special pants that had heaters in them for the London Olympics. Not sure if it was to warm the athletes up or keep them warm between warmup and the event.

I read in one study that the objective to obtain optimal athletic performance is to literally raise the temperature of the muscles.

Last edited by carleton; 01-13-16 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 01-13-16, 08:06 AM
  #2963  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
One of the former Canadian National team guys (Jim Fisher) would spend all day on the rollers the day of the Kilo and TS. He must've ridden 40km prior to each event just warming up on rollers all day.
during long hard race weekends i'm probably on rollers for longer than i am racing. and i like to break it up, too - an hour during a morning session, maybe more, sprinkled over a few periods; half hour as a warmup-warmup to loosen myself up during my racing session, and then an actual half-hour warmup before my race. followed by a fifteen or twenty minute cooldown.

i mean, a good rule of thumb is the shorter the race, the longer the warmup. that goes double for track racing; in a crit, you might be able to say "i'm just gonna tailgun for the first fifteen or twenty minutes and get loose," but that's pretty impossible even in a 'long' track race.
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Old 01-13-16, 08:39 AM
  #2964  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Regarding warming up and staying warm. Remember the British Team had special pants that hat heaters in them for the London Olympics. Not sure if it was to warm the athletes up or keep them warm between warmup and the event.

I read in one study that the objective to obtain optimal athletic performance is to literally raise the temperature of the muscles.
At the Six Days of Kissena last year, I was wearing two layers on my legs to keep them warm. Unfortunately, being it was in the mid-30's there was no keeping my legs or any other part of my body warm.
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Old 01-13-16, 05:10 PM
  #2965  
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
At the Six Days of Kissena last year, I was wearing two layers on my legs to keep them warm. Unfortunately, being it was in the mid-30's there was no keeping my legs or any other part of my body warm.
Men's Buck Naked Wind Saver Windproof Boxer Briefs - Duluth Trading
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Old 01-13-16, 09:42 PM
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Do they sell a Men's Buck Naked Wind Saver Windproof Body Suit?
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Old 01-13-16, 10:50 PM
  #2967  
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Do they sell a Men's Buck Naked Wind Saver Windproof Body Suit?

Last edited by carleton; 01-13-16 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 01-14-16, 07:19 AM
  #2968  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I think I'm going to be sick. Please send me your address and I'll send you a razor.
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Old 01-14-16, 08:38 AM
  #2969  
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
I think I'm going to be sick. Please send me your address and I'll send you a razor.
Hahahaha, that's not me.
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Old 01-14-16, 10:22 AM
  #2970  
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
At the Six Days of Kissena last year, I was wearing two layers on my legs to keep them warm. Unfortunately, being it was in the mid-30's there was no keeping my legs or any other part of my body warm.
Never in my life would I have thought I would need a kerosene heater for a track race up until those races. Hopefully we have enough common sense to move them a few weeks later this season.
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Old 01-14-16, 10:43 AM
  #2971  
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Originally Posted by MarkWW View Post
Never in my life would I have thought I would need a kerosene heater for a track race up until those races. Hopefully we have enough common sense to move them a few weeks later this season.
+1

Brean also mentioned the possibility of having Fall series of races in addition. I'm really hoping that will happen.
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Old 01-14-16, 03:01 PM
  #2972  
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no youtube livestream of today's world cup? just showing for sunday. bummer


*anyway to watch a (free) stream of today's event. if shown on sky or eurosport or whatever? im not familiar.

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Old 01-14-16, 03:37 PM
  #2973  
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
I think I'm going to be sick. Please send me your address and I'll send you a razor.
Ha, on that subject, do you guys shave?
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Old 01-14-16, 03:59 PM
  #2974  
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Originally Posted by jt_uk View Post
Ha, on that subject, do you guys shave?
My legs are clean shaven before I take the start line of any race.
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Old 01-14-16, 04:01 PM
  #2975  
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Originally Posted by jt_uk View Post
Ha, on that subject, do you guys shave?
Not over the winter. Will start again as soon as the temperature is reasonable again or I can get on an indoor track.
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