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Saw this severing of Specialized's ties with a LBS

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Saw this severing of Specialized's ties with a LBS

Old 09-13-21, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Just a guess, but if Specialized sold their bikes through the new company (PON-Mikes), they'd obligated to provide service through the new company, and providing service via a direct competitor would be problematic.
Perhaps. I wonder the status of shop inventory sales regarding warranty service? eg
https://mikesbikes.com/products/spec...31436725616709
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Old 09-13-21, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Not done, of course not, but not lost either, and they didn’t have to put their entire business model at risk by selling to non-dealers.

All those pre-purchase people are free to get their money from Mike’s and take it to a Specialized dealer and re-order. Who knows, but maybe Spesh even has special instructions to dealers in Mike’s Bikes areas on how to deal with such customers.
I am sure Mike’s will make a special effort to retain those 400 customers. Specialized don’t even know who they are.

Saying that they would be putting their entire business model at risk by fulfilling those last 400 orders is a bit of an exaggeration at best.

But we know this is a hard nosed business decision with no genuine concern for the customers. Being a retailer, Mike’s probably has a bit more concern for customer loyalty. Possibly!
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Old 09-13-21, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post

Saying that they would be putting their entire business model at risk by fulfilling those last 400 orders is a bit of an exaggeration at best.
Not at all is that an exaggerated claim. Specialized cutting their dealer network out of sales by selling to non-dealers would be a very serious problem. Plus, you’d have to consider that, if these bikes go up in price before delivery, is Spesh supposed to honor Mile’s pricing to customers or their dealer pricing? It’s a huge, effin’ ****** mess to even consider such a scenario… And if you don’t know, look up the Full Force fiasco. Spesh intro’d a new, low-line brand for box/department/discount stores in the ‘90s and pissed off their dealers royally. Spesh aren’t the fools you think they are.
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Old 09-13-21, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Not at all is that an exaggerated claim. Specialized cutting their dealer network out of sales by selling to non-dealers would be a very serious problem. Plus, you’d have to consider that, if these bikes go up in price before delivery, is Spesh supposed to honor Mile’s pricing to customers or their dealer pricing? It’s a huge, effin’ ****** mess to even consider such a scenario… And if you don’t know, look up the Full Force fiasco. Spesh intro’d a new, low-line brand for box/department/discount stores in the ‘90s and pissed off their dealers royally. Spesh aren’t the fools you think they are.
I don't think Specialized are fools. But I do think they are a hard-nosed business that doesn't care much about the customers. Same as most big brands really. No worse, no better. It doesn't put me off buying their products, which I generally quite like. For example I had a 2015 Enduro, which was a great bike and I really like the Aethos and Roubaix road bikes. But if I ever got pissed around ordering one (whoever's fault it was) then I would put my money somewhere else without a second thought.
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Old 09-13-21, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
Specialized once sued a bike shop called The Roubaix Cycling Studio in Canada for copyright infringement. As if they themselves hadn't "borrowed" the name. Between their corporate antics and Trek's throwing LeMond under the bus over Lance Armstrong, I've never bought a Specialized or Trek. Never will.
In principle I agree with you. But I can't stop buying Specialized saddles.
You can take my specialized saddle from me when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
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Old 09-14-21, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
In principle I agree with you. But I can't stop buying Specialized saddles.
You can take my specialized saddle from me when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
yeah ditto on that they sure have nailed their contact points, saddles and shoes at least for my body geometry (see what I did there)
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Old 09-14-21, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
In principle I agree with you. But I can't stop buying Specialized saddles.
You can take my specialized saddle from me when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
Totally understood.
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Old 09-14-21, 07:49 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by nachoman View Post
in principle i agree with you. But i can't stop buying specialized saddles.
You can take my specialized saddle from me when you pry it from my cold dead hands ass.
fify
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Old 09-14-21, 09:52 AM
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I have nothing to add regarding Mikes/Spesh fall out. But I wll add that when we had an order of top tier Rockhoppers that were supposed spec'd with disc brakes show up with base model single piston mechanical brakes, we were told to "like it or lump it." We tried to get compensated, we tried warranty return. In all cases, Specialized delivered a product substandard to that which we ordered & is not inclined to make make right.
Make of that what you will.

Lifetime warranty on frames now only apply if the customer themselves go online & register their bike through the Specialized web page. Elsewise manufacturer defects are only covered for 2 years. Requiring consumer action for what at purchase time is an abstract concept significantly reduces corporate liabilities & limits consumer protections.
Make of that what you will.

E-bikes are only warrantied if the customer registers through an app they downloaded to their phone. No doubt their app contains a lengthy list of permissions designed to monetize customer data as another revenue stream. Using an app for the ANGI helmet impact sensor was the first foray into the customer data capture practice I became aware of. No thanks, I already have enough consumer data faucets in my life. It seems that the passive, holistic approach didn't yield as much data as they wanted & a more force was necessary. "You want a warranty? We need to monetize realtime data."
Make of that what you will.

Some high end products are now not even available to LBS's. Certain halo products like some models of Roval wheels or any S-works bike for example.

No, I don't mean like: "You can't stock item "x"."

I mean like: "We, Specialized will not allow you, the LBS, to order an item even if a customer comes through you brick & morter door with cash in hand. Customer "x" can only order product "y" online from Specialized directly. If product "y" is a bike that must be assembled, then 80% is retained with Specialized."

What that means to the LBS is on a hypothetical halo-grail bike that traditionaly retails for $11,000 whereby the LBS usual out of pocket cost were to be ~$6000 to even get the bike in-store, $5000 remained to run the business. Of the $5000 remaining, to run a business with, Specialized now takes an additional $4000 of it out of the LBS. Leaving the LBS with $1000 to run the shop with, build the bike, deal with the customer, etc...The LBS profit on grail bike now measures into the hundreds.
Make of that what you will.

It also means the draw & status of having a grail bike in store is now extinguished. The ability of the customer to go on a test ride is now diminished. The opportunity of an impulse sale is now gone. The consumer has less choice. The consumer has less information to make an informed purchase decision. The LBS loses opportunity.

In addition: Set pricing where the LBS has no control over the sale price of an item, combined with the price a shop can get an item for through the dealer network, moreorless determines a shops margin. Specialized has been squeezing the shops on the dealer end & sucking up their margin on all other items. Raising the allowable sale price of an item to the highest price the market will bear, but raising the shop acquisition cost even more.
Make of that what you will.

Specialized is a pack of sharks. Sharks feeding on your local bike shop.

It's no wonder Mikes Bike moved on to warmer waters. I wish 'em luck. We can't afford to not carry Specialized, but we have been looking to carry a lot less & fill in the gaps with offerings from other brands. Thus far the European offerings we picked up during the pandemic have treated us well. Maybe there will be more in the future.

Last edited by base2; 09-14-21 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 09-14-21, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I have nothing to add regarding Mikes/Spesh fall out. But I wll add that when we had an order of top tier Rockhoppers that were supposed spec'd with disc brakes show up with base model single piston mechanical brakes, we were told to "like it or lump it." We tried to get compensated, we tried warranty return. In all cases, Specialized delivered a product substandard to that which we ordered & is not inclined to make make right.
Make of that what you will.

Lifetime warranty on frames now only apply if the customer themselves go online & register their bike through the Specialized web page. Elsewise manufacturer defects are only covered for 2 years. Requiring consumer action for what at purchase time is an abstract concept significantly reduces corporate liabilities & limits consumer protections.
Make of that what you will.

E-bikes are only warrantied if the customer registers through an app they downloaded to their phone. No doubt their app contains a lengthy list of permissions designed to monetize customer data as another revenue stream. Using an app for the ANGI helmet impact sensor was the first foray into the customer data capture practice I became aware of. No thanks, I already have enough consumer data faucets in my life. It seems that the passive, holistic approach didn't yield as much data as they wanted & a more force was necessary. "You want a warranty? We need to monetize realtime data."
Make of that what you will.

Some high end products are now not even available to LBS's. Certain halo products like some models of Roval wheels or any S-works bike for example.

No, I don't mean like: "You can't stock item "x"."

I mean like: "We, Specialized will not allow you, the LBS, to order an item even if a customer comes through you brick & morter door with cash in hand. Customer "x" can only order product "y" online from Specialized directly. If product "y" is a bike that must be assembled, then 80% is retained with Specialized."

What that means to the LBS is on a hypothetical halo-grail bike that traditionaly retails for $11,000 whereby the LBS usual out of pocket cost were to be ~$6000 to even get the bike in-store, $5000 remained to run the business. Of the $5000 remaining, to run a business with, Specialized now takes an additional $4000 of it out of the LBS. Leaving the LBS with $1000 to run the shop with, build the bike, deal with the customer, etc...The LBS profit on grail bike now measures into the hundreds.
Make of that what you will.

It also means the draw & status of having a grail bike in store is now extinguished. The ability of the customer to go on a test ride is now diminished. The opportunity of an impulse sale is now gone. The consumer has less choice. The consumer has less information to make an informed purchase decision. The LBS loses opportunity.

In addition: Set pricing where the LBS has no control over the sale price of an item, combined with the price a shop can get an item for through the dealer network, moreorless determines a shops margin. Specialized has been squeezing the shops on the dealer end & sucking up their margin on all other items. Raising the allowable sale price of an item to the highest price the market will bear, but raising the shop acquisition cost even more.
Make of that what you will.

Specialized is a pack of sharks. Sharks feeding on your local bike shop.

It's no wonder Mikes Bike moved on to warmer waters. I wish 'em luck. We can't afford to not carry Specialized, but we have been looking to carry a lot less & fill in the gaps with offerings from other brands. Thus far the European offerings we picked up during the pandemic have treated us well. Maybe there will be more in the future.
As I said upthread, that’s a storyline more than 20 years in the making with Specialized, so it’s an utter lie for Mike’s to say they “definitely did not expect this situation.”
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Old 09-14-21, 10:43 AM
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I have not seen the restrictions on what can be purchased from a Specialized Dealer in our market and the full product line is still accessible. No matter how bad you feel you are being treated by Specialized, the Mikes/Pons model will have the potential of bankrupting your business. The covertly factory owned shops are a deadly combination forcing the LBS into ever-decreasing niches of the market. They have unlimited lines of credit, preferential wholesale pricing, improved access to stock and improved training systems and robust back-end support. It would interesting if anyone else experienced the situation that their specialized dealer was not able to order an S Works bike and only sold directly online.

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Old 09-14-21, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
As I said upthread, that’s a storyline more than 20 years in the making with Specialized, so it’s an utter lie for Mike’s to say they “definitely did not expect this situation.”
I don't know that "lie" is the right word. Maybe they expected a less cold, hard-nosed response. Maybe they expected Specialized to make good on completing sales in progress...or whatever. Afterall what company doesn't want to sell it's wares?

In any case, I'm reminded of a parable about a horse helping a snake...Maybe Mikes shouldn't have expected anything different. Spesh leaving Mikes with a bunch of liabilities just for spite? That sounds about right.
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Old 09-14-21, 11:50 AM
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Whatever happened to that company started by an ex-Spesh engineer that Spesh tried to sue out of existence? Something about he'd made a design on his own time but they said it was too similar to a design he'd made on their time but they declined to pursue? I don't remember the details.
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Old 09-14-21, 01:00 PM
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I didn't read all the posts in this thread, but my two cents:

1. I suspect both Mikes new owners and Specialized had conversations about their future relationship long before the sale was finalized. This idea that Specialized just called them up the next day and severed ties without any warning is nonsense.

2. Do people really say/write "Spesh" as some kind of shorthand for Specialized? Why not Special? Or Spec? Just seems weird.
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Old 09-14-21, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Spesh leaving Mikes with a bunch of liabilities just for spite? That sounds about right.
That’s completely inaccurate. Spesh didn’t make Mike’s take pre-orders for bikes, so that’s not on Specialized at all. And out of spite? Since when do manufacturers sell direct to non-dealer sources? Non-dealers with new stuff is called the grey market, and it not only does not exist in some industries at all— take automotive; you can’t buy a new Ford anywhere other than a Ford dealer— but where it does occur it’s usually illegal and manufacturers won’t honor warranties on grey market items; there are grey market wristwatches, for example, but without AD stamped paperwork, those watches have no warranty.
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Old 09-14-21, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
That’s completely inaccurate. Spesh didn’t make Mike’s take pre-orders for bikes, so that’s not on Specialized at all. .
Do we know this? If Specialized was taking orders from its dealers, is it up to the dealer to say to any customer who walks in that they refuse to accept their order? I have no idea how the policies/agreements were written between Spesh and Mikes. OTOH, different question as to whether Mike's was required to take full payment on a preorder bike.
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Old 09-14-21, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
That’s completely inaccurate. Spesh didn’t make Mike’s take pre-orders for bikes, so that’s not on Specialized at all. And out of spite? Since when do manufacturers sell direct to non-dealer sources? Non-dealers with new stuff is called the grey market, and it not only does not exist in some industries at all— take automotive; you can’t buy a new Ford anywhere other than a Ford dealer— but where it does occur it’s usually illegal and manufacturers won’t honor warranties on grey market items; there are grey market wristwatches, for example, but without AD stamped paperwork, those watches have no warranty.
Maybe if I put it in different terms:

Mikes would have taken customers orders under the belief that a/the relationship were to continue. That's how relationships work.

Now that Specialized took the opportunity to cancel the relationship, Specialized is basically taking their ball & going home.

Last I checked: When an aggrieved spouse leaves an abusive relationship, the abuser can either accept, & pay child support until the obligations from that relationship are fulfilled or burn the house down.

Specialized is burning the house down.

Now they Mikies is an unauthorized vendor because Specialized cancelled it. Before, they wereauthorized. Specialized is being a certified grumpy pants by not fulfilling the rest of the existing contract.

It's not all that different than arresting someone for trespassing when they are actively leaving the property after you confinscated their security credentials. Some things require tact & grace. Spec has demonstrated they have none.

I don't know that Mikes should've expected anything different, but geez, Specialized isn't sewing any goodwill, here.

How is this so hard? Where is the wind down that is so common elsewhere? The wind down & fulfillment of obligations Mikes probably counted on per the existing contract & relationship has been weaponized. I feel sorry Specialized has hurt Mikes customers that put down for deposits for Specialized products.

Specialized is throwing a tantrum. The shop is cut out, the contracts are cancelled as retribution. Hard to read it any other way.

Whatever...The horse helped the snake knowing what it was. Mikes customers got bit.
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Old 09-14-21, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Do we know this? If Specialized was taking orders from its dealers, is it up to the dealer to say to any customer who walks in that they refuse to accept their order? I have no idea how the policies/agreements were written between Spesh and Mikes. OTOH, different question as to whether Mike's was required to take full payment on a preorder bike.
No, I don’t know this, but follow the money, and it stops at Mike’s.
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Old 09-14-21, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post

2. Do people really say/write "Spesh" as some kind of shorthand for Specialized? Why not Special? Or Spec? Just seems weird.
Spesh is a pretty common shorthand, in the UK at least. “Special”wouldn’t work on a number of levels. Being a complete word in its own right would make it confusing eg. That Special bike I saw yesterday was awesome/*****! “Spec” doesn’t really work either as you would pronounce it “speck” and it already has a different meaning ie short for “specification”.
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Old 09-14-21, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Maybe if I put it in different terms:

Mikes would have taken customers orders under the belief that a/the relationship were to continue. That's how relationships work.

Now that Specialized took the opportunity to cancel the relationship, Specialized is basically taking their ball & going home.

Last I checked: When an aggrieved spouse leaves an abusive relationship, the abuser can either accept, & pay child support until the obligations from that relationship are fulfilled or burn the house down.

Specialized is burning the house down.

Now they Mikies is an unauthorized vendor because Specialized cancelled it. Before, they wereauthorized. Specialized is being a certified grumpy pants by not fulfilling the rest of the existing contract.

It's not all that different than arresting someone for trespassing when they are actively leaving the property after you confinscated their security credentials. Some things require tact & grace. Spec has demonstrated they have none.

I don't know that Mikes should've expected anything different, but geez, Specialized isn't sewing any goodwill, here.

How is this so hard? Where is the wind down that is so common elsewhere? The wind down & fulfillment of obligations Mikes probably counted on per the existing contract & relationship has been weaponized. I feel sorry Specialized has hurt Mikes customers that put down for deposits for Specialized products.

Specialized is throwing a tantrum. The shop is cut out, the contracts are cancelled as retribution. Hard to read it any other way.

Whatever...The horse helped the snake knowing what it was. Mikes customers got bit.
No, again that’s inaccurate. Spesh didn’t cancel the relationship, Mike’s did with the sale to Pon.

And no, Spesh isn’t being “grumpy pants” by not “fulfilling the rest of the existing contract”; the entire point of the contract is to spell out the terms of the relationships, so if the contract is breached or terminated, there is no remaining bits of the contract, it is finished.

It’s absurd and foolish to suggest that Spesh has any obligation to non-dealers.

Reading the letters posted upthread, it should be clear to any rational party that Specialized are the bigger party here. The Specialized statement expressing gratitude to Mike’s for 23 years of “first rate service” and “great partnership.” Mike’s letter says Specialized did this, and Specialized did that, and is a childish attempt to transfer blame on Specialized for everything resulting from Mike’s decision to sell.

And lastly, despite your irrational interpretation of the situation, it’s fortunate that Mike’s customers did not “get bit.” Mike’s statement made it clear that customers could get a refund or use the money towards a different brand (…a brand they’re an authorized dealer for. Shocker, I know). Those that take refunds are free to go to a Specialized dealer and place their order again, probably with no change to timeline, or to go directly to Specialized for the purchase. Referring to the Specialized statement directing folks to reach out to their Rider Care team, they may even have some special consideration for people who had deposits at Mike’s. Dunno.

But that’s the situation; Mike’s sold the business, and that’s what caused this. It wasn’t Specialized.
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Old 09-14-21, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
No, again that’s inaccurate. Spesh didn’t cancel the relationship, Mike’s did with the sale to Pon.

And no, Spesh isn’t being “grumpy pants” by not “fulfilling the rest of the existing contract”; the entire point of the contract is to spell out the terms of the relationships, so if the contract is breached or terminated, there is no remaining bits of the contract, it is finished.
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Again, you seem certain that you know how the Mikes/Specialized contract was written, and that by that contract's terms, Specialized was required to cancel Mike's status as a reseller, as well as all existing orders once they were under the new ownership. You could be right, but nobody's posted online yet the merchant agreement that I've seen.
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Old 09-14-21, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
...Specialized is being a certified grumpy pants by not fulfilling the rest of the existing contract...
Don't go all Wharton-School-of-Business contract lingo on us.
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Old 09-14-21, 07:11 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Again, you seem certain that you know how the Mikes/Specialized contract was written, and that by that contract's terms, Specialized was required to cancel Mike's status as a reseller, as well as all existing orders once they were under the new ownership. You could be right, but nobody's posted online yet the merchant agreement that I've seen.
No… all I’m saying is that if Mike’s hadn’t sold to Pon, they would not have lost their Specialized dealer status for selling to Pon. Simple cause-and-effect crap, that.
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Old 09-15-21, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Again, you seem certain that you know how the Mikes/Specialized contract was written, and that by that contract's terms, Specialized was required to cancel Mike's status as a reseller, as well as all existing orders once they were under the new ownership. You could be right, but nobody's posted online yet the merchant agreement that I've seen.
Specialized dealer agreements are virtually identical within a market and there is no mystery here. Plus what Mikes did was presell their allotment not custom order 400 bikes on top of their standard dealer order. I am surprised at the lack of basic understanding of the bike industry here. In what world would a manufacturer sell their high in demand products to a competitor who just purchased one of your dealers while your loyal dealers are clamoring for product?
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Old 09-15-21, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
In what world…
”I earned my Associates degree in business from BikeForums College in just 16 posts, and you can too!”
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