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The death of rim brakes, disc brakes now unanimous in the pro peloton...

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The death of rim brakes, disc brakes now unanimous in the pro peloton...

Old 09-23-21, 05:47 AM
  #126  
Sy Reene
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
The thing with disc brakes is that they are actually more of a benefit to the average rider than they are to the pro-peloton. .
Maybe or maybe not. I think it depends on what's meant by average. Probably the average bike buyer is getting something like THIS BIKE. At price points such as these, is the consumer better off with the disc brakes or would they have been better off for the same dollars spent on a decent quality pair of rim brakes?
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Old 09-23-21, 06:16 AM
  #127  
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I think an important factor in deciding which system to get is:

Which system is going to give you the better excuse for being slow? I think most riders have uttered the old, "it feels like I got a brake dragging" on days when they can't keep up. Which system is going to backup that statement? BITD you could also use the "I think I have a low tire" excuse. Now, since the trend is wide tires/low pressure, I can't use that one anymore. If I jump on the disc bandwagon, can I use the brake dragging excuse with a clear conscience?
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Old 09-23-21, 06:25 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
I think an important factor in deciding which system to get is:

Which system is going to give you the better excuse for being slow? I think most riders have uttered the old, "it feels like I got a brake dragging" on days when they can't keep up. Which system is going to backup that statement? BITD you could also use the "I think I have a low tire" excuse. Now, since the trend is wide tires/low pressure, I can't use that one anymore. If I jump on the disc bandwagon, can I use the brake dragging excuse with a clear conscience?
lol just last week I was on one of our regular group rides and had to pull off at the start of a climb, one of my compatriots checked on me and asked if I had a flat, I truly thought my brakes (rim) were dragging! Of course not even close it was just me.

I totally get whatís going on, but I am a little bummed about Dura Ace not having rim brakes on new. I wasnít planning on a new group but eventually I will. Iím 99.9% sure that Iíll be keeping my SV until Iím carried out of my house feet first and it would have been nice to keep up with future group sets. When I had my SV built they were doing beautiful disk frames but since I live in pretty flat lands I didnít see the point. Ah well!
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Old 09-23-21, 06:27 AM
  #129  
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The cheapest Trek road bike with hydraulic disks is around $4,000. So sure, if the average rider spends at least four grand on a new bike they may be better off with disk brakes. It's not true for me personally, but I'm probably not the average rider either.

OTOH, if I want to buy my wife or kid a thousand dollar bike, they're getting crappy mechanical disks even though I know that rim brakes would be lighter, cheaper, easier to maintain, and stop just as well 99% of the time. It's really brilliant because when people come back to complain about how terrible their mechanical disks are, you can up-sell them to a four-thousand-dollar bike with hydraulics.
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Old 09-23-21, 07:22 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
The cheapest Trek road bike with hydraulic disks is around $4,000. So sure, if the average rider spends at least four grand on a new bike they may be better off with disk brakes. It's not true for me personally, but I'm probably not the average rider either.

OTOH, if I want to buy my wife or kid a thousand dollar bike, they're getting crappy mechanical disks even though I know that rim brakes would be lighter, cheaper, easier to maintain, and stop just as well 99% of the time. It's really brilliant because when people come back to complain about how terrible their mechanical disks are, you can up-sell them to a four-thousand-dollar bike with hydraulics.
Mechanical discs aren't that bad. A friend of mine has them on his fat bike and they work pretty good.

For $1800 Giant will sell you hydraulic discs...

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/contend-ar-1

Reality still is that rim brakes are going away on future bikes. So you might as well embrace the better stopping power and the ability to run wider tires. 700 x 32 on my Trek Domane are sooooooo comfortable.
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Old 09-23-21, 08:00 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Maybe or maybe not. I think it depends on what's meant by average. Probably the average bike buyer is getting something like THIS BIKE. At price points such as these, is the consumer better off with the disc brakes or would they have been better off for the same dollars spent on a decent quality pair of rim brakes?
On that bike they're getting cheap brakes no matter what. Disc or V or canti or caliper, there is no saving there that will be passed to the customer. I'm amazed that it doesn't have grip shifters, tbh.
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Old 09-23-21, 08:45 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Mechanical discs aren't that bad. A friend of mine has them on his fat bike and they work pretty good.
Mechanical disks are that bad. I have BB7's on one of my bikes, and they are terrible. They don't expose their full crappinesss until you ride them a few hundred miles in the rain, so my suspicion is that most people don't ride their bikes enough to ever realize just how crappy they are. My wife has them on her bike and they have been fine because she only rides her bike a few hundred miles a year and only in nice weather. The exact conditions in which rim brakes would be perfectly adequate, cheaper, lighter and less maintenance.

Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Reality still is that rim brakes are going away on future bikes. So you might as well embrace the better stopping power and the ability to run wider tires. 700 x 32 on my Trek Domane are sooooooo comfortable.
Rim brakes are never going away on my bikes, so if that's what shimano and the bike marketing companies decide to spec on their bikes, I won't buy from them. Just means I have fewer choices, not zero choices, and I don't need disk brakes to run wide tires. That's 100% pure marketing.
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Old 09-23-21, 08:48 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
That's what they advise for 4 year olds learning to ride their first ever bike. Removing your front brake is probably losing 75% or more of your total braking ability. I wouldn't call that "safer" for any competent rider.

Edit: apologies, reading the subsequent posts I now understand you were just taking the piss. But some people are so stupid around here that I actually thought it was for real, LOL!
A little trouble with your sarcasm detector?
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Old 09-23-21, 08:53 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
A little trouble with your sarcasm detector?
Yeah it did go over my head initially and then I realised. But it's an easy mistake to make around here with some of the stuff people write for real.
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Old 09-23-21, 08:57 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Maybe or maybe not. I think it depends on what's meant by average. Probably the average bike buyer is getting something like THIS BIKE. At price points such as these, is the consumer better off with the disc brakes or would they have been better off for the same dollars spent on a decent quality pair of rim brakes?
Possibly, I was really talking about the typical enthusiast rider level. The sort of guy who would be buying 105 level or above components.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:02 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
The cheapest Trek road bike with hydraulic disks is around $4,000. So sure, if the average rider spends at least four grand on a new bike they may be better off with disk brakes. It's not true for me personally, but I'm probably not the average rider either.

OTOH, if I want to buy my wife or kid a thousand dollar bike, they're getting crappy mechanical disks even though I know that rim brakes would be lighter, cheaper, easier to maintain, and stop just as well 99% of the time. It's really brilliant because when people come back to complain about how terrible their mechanical disks are, you can up-sell them to a four-thousand-dollar bike with hydraulics.
A lot of kids bikes still come with rim brakes. We did have one kids bike with mechanical disc brakes and it was absolutely fine. No issues at all. Was it better than rim brakes at that level? Probably not, but not something I lost any sleep over.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:05 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Rim brakes are never going away on my bikes, so if that's what shimano and the bike marketing companies decide to spec on their bikes, I won't buy from them.
What is a bike marketing company?
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Old 09-23-21, 09:05 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Mechanical disks are that bad. I have BB7's on one of my bikes, and they are terrible. They don't expose their full crappinesss until you ride them a few hundred miles in the rain, so my suspicion is that most people don't ride their bikes enough to ever realize just how crappy they are. My wife has them on her bike and they have been fine because she only rides her bike a few hundred miles a year and only in nice weather. The exact conditions in which rim brakes would be perfectly adequate, cheaper, lighter and less maintenance.


Rim brakes are never going away on my bikes, so if that's what shimano and the bike marketing companies decide to spec on their bikes, I won't buy from them. Just means I have fewer choices, not zero choices, and I don't need disk brakes to run wide tires. That's 100% pure marketing.
I ride over 4,000 miles a year on disc brake bikes. Is that enough to realize that they aren't crappy?

You'll still be able to buy parts for your rim brake bikes, but going into the future if you decide to purchase rim brake bike you may have to go custom and pay through the nose for it. The major manufactures will eventually discontinue them due to lack of sales.

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...-brakes-trash/
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Old 09-23-21, 09:07 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
A lot of kids bikes still come with rim brakes. We did have one kids bike with mechanical disc brakes and it was absolutely fine. No issues at all. Was it better than rim brakes at that level? Probably not, but not something I lost any sleep over.
I should have clarified that my kids are grown-ups.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:08 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
What is a bike marketing company?
All bike companies are marketing companies.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:09 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Mechanical disks are that bad. I have BB7's on one of my bikes, and they are terrible. They don't expose their full crappinesss until you ride them a few hundred miles in the rain, so my suspicion is that most people don't ride their bikes enough to ever realize just how crappy they are.
That is just asinine.

I have ridden a lot of rain miles with mech discs .... because my "rain bike" (the bike I bought specifically to ride in the rain) has mech discs (which were the deciding factor.) Maybe you just don't know how to set up your brakes? Seems a lot more likely if one person can't get mech discs to stop .... but no, keep thinking it is the world, not you.

Originally Posted by kingston View Post
My wife has them on her bike and they have been fine because she only rides her bike a few hundred miles a year and only in nice weather. The exact conditions in which rim brakes would be perfectly adequate, cheaper, lighter and less maintenance.
Yup ... mech discs are about on par with good rim brakes IMO .... and that is me comparing mech discs to hydro discs and 105 and Ultegra rim brakes across many years of riding. So .... maybe you wife didn't need discs .... benefit there is if she chooses to upgrade to hydro discs, she has the frame, fork and wheels already.

I chose mech discs because my rain bike is my working and light-touring bike, and if a hydro line or fitting broke or got damaged, I would be screwed .... out in the wilderness with $10K of camera gear and no brakes (luckily I have SPD pedals so I can walk in the shoes, but still .... ) But I can assure you Spyre C brakes work and work well, in every condition I have tested them (no snow, no lava, but everything else.)

Sorry you can't get your primitive BB7s to work. maybe you just don't know how to set them up, or maybe you should get some better, more modern mech discs?
Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Rim brakes are never going away on my bikes, so if that's what shimano and the bike marketing companies decide to spec on their bikes, I won't buy from them. Just means I have fewer choices, not zero choices, and I don't need disk brakes to run wide tires. That's 100% pure marketing.
Same here .... my rim-brake frames are never going to be converted to disc .... I am sure I will be able to buy brake pads for as long as I can still ride .... because I am pretty old.

On the other hand, I am not so stupid not to be able to evaluate the benefits of hydro discs, and in a lot of situations, they are simply better brakes. The added performance might no be necessary for a lot of riders, but frankly, most of us don't use a fraction of the capacity of our current braking systems most of the time. No one does panic stops all day. Doesn't mean the extra capacity isn't good to have.

I can go about as fast in my 2004 Honda as a guy in a new Corvette, usually ..... because he doesn't want a ticket and neither do it. But I like really using my car now and then ... and if I had a Corvette, I might never use a fraction of its capacity (not may places where cornering and breaking at a G or more is safe on any public road) but I guarantee you every now and then ...... And I have used 100 percent of my Honda's braking ability (mostly when I tired too hard to use its cornering ability.)

I used to drive my girlfriend's '67 VW from time to time. You could drive that car flat-out in traffic---99 percent--and not be any faster than all the housewives using five percent of their cars' capacities (the joys of 22 bhp and 4.5" tires ... )

Probably your wife would be perfectly happy with a 7-speed Huffy---she'd have to thrash it, but she could get the same overall performance as she does out of her current bike, probably.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:10 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Mechanical disks are that bad. I have BB7's on one of my bikes, and they are terrible. They don't expose their full crappinesss until you ride them a few hundred miles in the rain, so my suspicion is that most people don't ride their bikes enough to ever realize just how crappy they are.
Ahahaha, no. Maybe you don't know how to set them up properly or something. My longest rain ride on BB7s was 260km long on a loaded (lightly, albeit) touring bike and out of 15000km on it, there was enough rain and crud. They work just fine in all weather conditions. More prone to rubbing issues than TRP Spyres which are just all around excellent.

Hydraulics are better still, but I wouldn't refuse another road bike with TRP Spyres. Rim brakes? No thanks.
​​​​​​


​​​​​​
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Old 09-23-21, 09:11 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I should have clarified that my kids are grown-ups.
In that case I would have thought they could make up their own minds about disc v rim brakes. Just like you have.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:12 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
I ride over 4,000 miles a year on disc brake bikes. Is that enough to realize that they aren't crappy?
Depends on how many of those miles are in the rain. Go ride a 600k in the rain on mechanical disks and tell me how great they are.

Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
You'll still be able to buy parts for your rim brake bikes, but going into the future if you decide to purchase rim brake bike you may have to go custom and pay through the nose for it. The major manufactures will eventually discontinue them due to lack of sales.
Rubicon crossed
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Old 09-23-21, 09:13 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
In that case I would have thought they could make up their own minds about disc v rim brakes. Just like you have.
That's pretty much my point. There are no rim brake bikes available in that price range anymore. Their minds have been made for them.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:15 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
All bike companies are marketing companies.
Is that just because they sell stuff you don't personally like?

So any company that sells something I don't want I'll label a "marketing company" from now on. Just to make it look like I know better.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:17 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Depends on how many of those miles are in the rain. Go ride a 600k in the rain on mechanical disks and tell me how great they are.


Rubicon crossed
I'm not sure why I would want to ride 370 miles in the rain. But guarantee the discs work better because I have used them in both rain and snow.

As noted above...you probably don't have something set up right.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:18 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
Ahahaha, no. Maybe you don't know how to set them up properly or something...​​​​​​
Anything's possible. They stop the bike fine, it's the squealing I can't stand. I can replace the pads to stop the squealing. It's not hard, just annoying and something I don't have to do with rim brakes.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:21 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Anything's possible. They stop the bike fine, it's the squealing I can't stand. I can replace the pads to stop the squealing. It's not hard, just annoying and something I don't have to do with rim brakes.
Your experience with one set of mechanical disc brakes does not mean that's how it is for everyone. You are definitely in the minority.

And for the record...cheap rim brakes/wheels will also make noise.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:22 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Your experience with one set of mechanical disc brakes does not mean that's how it is for everyone. You are definitely in the minority.
I'm remined of that every time I join one of these discussions.
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