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Myths of the road tubeless (or Go back to clinchers)

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Myths of the road tubeless (or Go back to clinchers)

Old 09-19-21, 08:00 AM
  #76  
Sy Reene
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Originally Posted by jaxgtr View Post
I got this in my tire today around 45 miles into my what was suppose to be a 65 mile ride. Obviously, I cut the ride short and headed back to the house, but I did not flat and I made it home. Once I got home, it was only then did I realize that I picked up the entire 3" 10 penny nail. I used my dynaplug and it seems to be holding, but on the safe side I am going to pull the tire and check the rim and see what the inside damage looks like on the tire. I would hate to have to replace it as it only has about 150 miles on it. Might try some crazy glue in the hole as well.
How much did you have to cut it short? Were you significantly less than 20 miles from home vs. the route you were going to take (65 - 45 = 20)?
So, I'm reading that you intentionally left this thing in your tire to ride home and didn't do the Dynaplug on the road?
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Old 09-19-21, 01:06 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
How much did you have to cut it short? Were you significantly less than 20 miles from home vs. the route you were going to take (65 - 45 = 20)?
So, I'm reading that you intentionally left this thing in your tire to ride home and didn't do the Dynaplug on the road?
At the point I picked up the nail, I was 5 miles from home. At the end of that road, I had planned to deviate which would have added another 20 miles give or take a mile. I attempted to pull the nail from the tire, but it would not budge, it took a pair of pliers and some effort to get it out of the tire. It was jammed in there pretty good.

I did pull the tire and checked the rim and the inside of the tire...all looks good. I went ahead and pull the head of the dynaplug off since I had the tire off. Reseated the tire and just inflated to see if it loses pressure more than expected without sealant. Will check it tomorrow and if it good, then I will add sealant and go for a ride.
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Old 10-03-21, 02:51 PM
  #78  
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Thread revival: I probably found a way to fix it, although the long time of the process (including seating back an old tire to the rim) doesn’t make me feel any better about the road tubeless. The solution below might work, by avoiding the plug to be “spit” at high pressures of the road bike tire.

1. Remove the tire from the rim and clean well the hole area on inside part of the tire
2. Insert plug1 as per repair kit instructions
3. Insert a plug2 through the loop of plug 1 on inside part of the tire
4. Pull plug1, to assure that both plugs take contact with the inside of the tire
5. Apply further glue (if provided by repair kit) on the plugs, on the inside part of the tire
6. Wait for around 24 hours, then press the system on the inside part of the tire, to assure further pasting.

In real life, it looks as below. For those with lot of imagination: the brown color is not what you think it is…. It is just the color of the repair plugs.

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Old 10-03-21, 03:04 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
Thread revival: I probably found a way to fix it, although the long time of the process (including seating back an old tire to the rim) doesn’t make me feel any better about the road tubeless. ...
The dynaplug I inserted is holding fine and I have over 150 miles on it since I inserted it. I figure I am good, but will keep check the spot prior to each ride for a new few rides to just make sure there nothing odd has changed. If all is good , then I probably will not think twice about it, until I have to
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Old 10-03-21, 03:22 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by jaxgtr View Post
The dynaplug I inserted is holding fine and I have over 150 miles on it since I inserted it. I figure I am good, but will keep check the spot prior to each ride for a new few rides to just make sure there nothing odd has changed. If all is good , then I probably will not think twice about it, until I have to
Yes, maybe it lasts for long. It is based on the same principle: something thicker than the hole on the inside of the tire, which should prevent the plug to be "spit" at high pressures. It is also easier to apply than my solution (no need to take off the tire from the rim), although I don't know how it works on very thin tires.
Nevertheless, after so many years of tubeless usage, there is not a standard solution on the market, that works safe and sure for any tire (thickness) for road bike pressures. If that dynaplug system is ok for any tubeless, then (I think) no other solution should be marketed, no matter the name of producer.

Last edited by Redbullet; 10-03-21 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 10-03-21, 03:46 PM
  #81  
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Dynaplug is just another variant of plug, they all perform the same basic function. sort of like brands of soda....
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Old 10-03-21, 07:56 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
Thread revival: I probably found a way to fix it, although the long time of the process (including seating back an old tire to the rim) doesn’t make me feel any better about the road tubeless. The solution below might work, by avoiding the plug to be “spit” at high pressures of the road bike tire.

1. Remove the tire from the rim and clean well the hole area on inside part of the tire
2. Insert plug1 as per repair kit instructions
3. Insert a plug2 through the loop of plug 1 on inside part of the tire
4. Pull plug1, to assure that both plugs take contact with the inside of the tire
5. Apply further glue (if provided by repair kit) on the plugs, on the inside part of the tire
6. Wait for around 24 hours, then press the system on the inside part of the tire, to assure further pasting.

In real life, it looks as below. For those with lot of imagination: the brown color is not what you think it is…. It is just the color of the repair plugs.

Is this still the same 0.5mm puncture? Did you get some real sealant, yet?

FWIW, what I do, on punctures that actually need a plug (4mm+) is to just tie the bacon strip in a knot and shove the knot through so that it's inside of the tire.

I can understand why you're getting frustrated with tubeless, but you're bringing it upon yourself by jumping through hoops that don't need to be jumped through and not listening to people far more experienced.
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Old 10-04-21, 12:15 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Is this still the same 0.5mm puncture? Did you get some real sealant, yet?

FWIW, what I do, on punctures that actually need a plug (4mm+) is to just tie the bacon strip in a knot and shove the knot through so that it's inside of the tire.

I can understand why you're getting frustrated with tubeless, but you're bringing it upon yourself by jumping through hoops that don't need to be jumped through and not listening to people far more experienced.
Thanks for advice.
It is the same small puncture. The brown area is much bigger than the puncture, as I pressed the plugs to stick on tire surface inside.
I think the "game" is more complicated. Somebody said that light and thin tires (as mine) might be more difficult to fix and I think he is right. Higher pressure, low volume of air available to lose for sealing on 23 mm (I don’t like wider and my rims are narrow), thin tires… I don't trust that any sealant would compensate for all those. So, I'll not invest further; I'll wait a few thousands km until the next flat, then I'll go back to my old Continental GP 5000 clinchers, which are very robust and still in a very good shape. Besides, I don’t want again the hassle of seating an old tubeless on the rim.
But, of course, others might have more positive experience with tubeless .
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Old 10-04-21, 12:23 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
Thanks for advice.
It is the same small puncture. The brown area is much bigger than the puncture, as I pressed the plugs to stick on tire surface inside.
I think the "game" is more complicated. Somebody said that light and thin tires (as mine) might be more difficult to fix and I think he is right. Higher pressure, low volume of air available to lose for sealing on 23 mm (I don’t like wider and my rims are narrow), thin tires… I don't trust that any sealant would compensate for all those. So, I'll not invest further; I'll wait a few thousands km until the next flat, then I'll go back to my old Continental GP 5000 clinchers, which are very robust and still in a very good shape. Besides, I don’t want again the hassle of seating an old tubeless on the rim.
But, of course, others might have more positive experience with tubeless .
So you'll knowingly use a poor sealant, listen to what you want to hear, and ignore those that tell you that they've personally experienced sealant that reliably works at 100psi on punctures that small? Okay, got it.

I mean, really - what's the point in running those tires with that sealant if you've got zero confidence that they'll handle the tiniest of punctures? All to save $7?
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Old 10-04-21, 04:48 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
Yes, maybe it lasts for long. It is based on the same principle: something thicker than the hole on the inside of the tire, which should prevent the plug to be "spit" at high pressures. It is also easier to apply than my solution (no need to take off the tire from the rim), although I don't know how it works on very thin tires.
Nevertheless, after so many years of tubeless usage, there is not a standard solution on the market, that works safe and sure for any tire (thickness) for road bike pressures. If that dynaplug system is ok for any tubeless, then (I think) no other solution should be marketed, no matter the name of producer.
OK. I get it, your just playing with us now. Aren’t you?
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Old 10-05-21, 02:43 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
OK. I get it, your just playing with us now. Aren’t you?
Not at all. The above was about standards:
In 5 years I spent around 15 EUR and 2-3 hours for repairing a number of flats on clinchers, using whatever was available at the closest LBS, and it always worked.
In 20 years I switched 40 times winter/summer tires on my car at various small auto services and never had a failure.
In a few months I spent some 40 EUR on various solutions (incl. a brand name) and 5-6 hours until I hardly fixed one small hole on a road tubeless tire.

I think sealants producers and plug kits should clearly state on their products whether they work or not for higher pressure of road tubeless. By the way, do producers state on the products whether they work only for MTB, or also for road tubeless? If not, it means by default that all of them should work for road tubeless, but most of them don't work! That is highly misleading and leads to money and time loss.
All the above and necessity of long searches on forums for solving a trivial issue are not signs of a mature system. That was all and there is no need to fight, since everybody is free to choose his preferred setup.

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Old 10-05-21, 02:49 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
So you'll knowingly use a poor sealant, listen to what you want to hear, and ignore those that tell you that they've personally experienced sealant that reliably works at 100psi on punctures that small? Okay, got it.

I mean, really - what's the point in running those tires with that sealant if you've got zero confidence that they'll handle the tiniest of punctures? All to save $7?
Maybe I'll try... although I'm tired of repair works and questions such as: will another one work? Should I remove both tires, clean them up to avoid reaction between 2 different sealants, then seat them back (brrr!) on the rims? Well... whatever!
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Old 10-05-21, 03:09 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
Maybe I'll try... although I'm tired of repair works and questions such as: will another one work? Should I remove both tires, clean them up to avoid reaction between 2 different sealants, then seat them back (brrr!) on the rims? Well... whatever!
Just... wow.

Tubes - you should definitely go with tubes.
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Old 10-05-21, 10:15 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
Maybe I'll try... although I'm tired of repair works and questions such as: will another one work? Should I remove both tires, clean them up to avoid reaction between 2 different sealants, then seat them back (brrr!) on the
rims? Well... whatever!
I definitely think you need to do what’s right for you. Still, there seems to be a lot of overthinking going on here. In my 7 plus years of tubeless around 6 or so exclusively, I’ve mismatched tires, sealant, goofed around with rim tapes and re-used old tires (with dried sealant inside) with no challenges. Maybe I’m just lucky… regardless, the lack of flats and comfort always seem to win out. In the great scheme of things they’ve been no more hassle than a regular tubed tire for me
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Old 10-06-21, 10:14 AM
  #90  
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I think you have to boil the tires in linseed oil, scrape them with a whale-baleen brush, wash them in natural lanolin, and have a priest exorcise the old sealant to make sure it is all out. Otherwise, you could create an explosive cloud of toxic gas which could kill millions.
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Old 10-06-21, 05:15 PM
  #91  
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Ordered some Aeolus Pro 5's TLR's so I could convert my Emonda to tubeless and had to wait about 6 weeks for the rear wheel. Finally came in. Took me all 20 mins to set everything up and take a test ride. Will give it a long ride this weekend. Paired the rims with Pirelli P Zero Race TLR's in 28mm

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Old 10-08-21, 07:20 AM
  #92  
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If I ever get a puncture that won't seal with orange seal endurance, I'll try one of the internal patches made for tubeless tires rather than fiddle with plugs or bacon strips. I ride relatively clean roads with no pot holes, so around 65 psi works with 28mm michelin tubeless tires. My main risk is pinch flats from the rocks strewn along mountain roads. I carry a small piece of cardboard to help brush away small rock slide material from the shoulder. Yesterday I swept about 100 feet of shoulder that was covered with dozens of rocks. There are short stretches where the only solution on the descent is to ride out in the driving lane to avoid small boulders that CDOT refuses to address.

I've got two bikes with michelin tubeless tires. No punctures of any sort in 5000 miles. Both rear tires are on their last 300-500 miles of tread.
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Old 10-08-21, 10:52 PM
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I don't understand the Stan's hate. It doesn't seem to test badly in comparison tests. I've personally had it seal up at least three small punctures on 28mm GP5000TL tires at about 72 psi. I've also had it stop many other punctures on Donnelly MSOs, various Maxxis MTB tires and Gravelkings of various sizes. I carry a Stan's dart in a jersey pocket in case I get a bigger hole, but I've never used it. I'm no Stan's loyalist, I'll certainly give Orange Seal a try if it goes on sale or something.

One other recommendation: forget all of those complex "pressurized air chamber" pumps. For the same price, get yourself a an inexpensive 6 gallon compressor and a Prestaflator Pro. This combination is infinitely better than any manual pump.
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Old 10-09-21, 02:02 AM
  #94  
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I squirted 1oz of Stan's in a tubular with a puncture. It sealed so well that I could go days without even having to top off the air pressure. I carry a little 2oz bottle with me on rides. My newest bike has tubeless compatible wheels and when I need to replace the tires I'll go ahead and give tubeless a shot just for the hell of it. Just hope the whole process isn't the same kind of nightmare I went through doing my MTB tires. I think my hands were permanently damaged. I almost had to take that bike to a shop for the first time in my life but finally got it done.
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Old 10-09-21, 05:06 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
I squirted 1oz of Stan's in a tubular with a puncture. It sealed so well that I could go days without even having to top off the air pressure. I carry a little 2oz bottle with me on rides. My newest bike has tubeless compatible wheels and when I need to replace the tires I'll go ahead and give tubeless a shot just for the hell of it. Just hope the whole process isn't the same kind of nightmare I went through doing my MTB tires. I think my hands were permanently damaged. I almost had to take that bike to a shop for the first time in my life but finally got it done.

Pretty simple, but in the case of tight tires, this is your best friend.....





https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tir...s%2C200&sr=8-2
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Old 10-09-21, 08:12 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
I don't understand the Stan's hate. It doesn't seem to test badly in comparison tests. I've personally had it seal up at least three small punctures on 28mm GP5000TL tires at about 72 psi. I've also had it stop many other punctures on Donnelly MSOs, various Maxxis MTB tires and Gravelkings of various sizes. I carry a Stan's dart in a jersey pocket in case I get a bigger hole, but I've never used it. I'm no Stan's loyalist, I'll certainly give Orange Seal a try if it goes on sale or something.
I'm sure it did. But for a 23mm tubeless ready rated as 87-130 PSI, it is different - not any sealant would seal punctures (although they do seal tire installation on the rim).

The posters reporting positive experience here usually mention pressures around 60-70 PSI. I think I saw only one mentioning positive experience at 100 PSI, with a particular sealant (Orange Seal). I didn’t test it but I can say that, in my experience, other sealants I tried (one being under Stan’s “umbrella”) simply do not seal a small puncture at 85-90 PSI or above.
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Old 10-09-21, 08:19 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
I'm sure it did. But for a 23mm tubeless ready rated as 87-130 PSI, it is different - not any sealant would seal punctures (although they do seal tire installation on the rim).

The posters reporting positive experience here usually mention pressures around 60-70 PSI. I think I saw only one mentioning positive experience at 100 PSI, with a particular sealant (Orange Seal). I didn’t test it but I can say that, in my experience, other sealants I tried (one being under Stan’s “umbrella”) simply do not seal a small puncture at 85-90 PSI or above.
What's a 'small puncture'? I'd consider this to mean a tiny slow leak from eg. one of those miniscule radial tire wires. Of course also, as a tire leaks, even if it starts at 85-90psi, if the sealant doesn't work up at that psi, doesn't it seal when the tire has eventually deflated to the aforementioned 70psi?
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Old 10-09-21, 09:00 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
I'm sure it did. But for a 23mm tubeless ready rated as 87-130 PSI, it is different - not any sealant would seal punctures (although they do seal tire installation on the rim).

The posters reporting positive experience here usually mention pressures around 60-70 PSI. I think I saw only one mentioning positive experience at 100 PSI, with a particular sealant (Orange Seal). I didn’t test it but I can say that, in my experience, other sealants I tried (one being under Stan’s “umbrella”) simply do not seal a small puncture at 85-90 PSI or above.
Yeah, someone running 100+ psi in 23s is going to have a different experience. If your bike can fit them I highly recommend going with a bigger tire and lower pressures. I realize this isn't the case for road bikes older than about five years old. Tubeless 28-30 tires at 60-70 psi on broad hookless rims is awesome: supple and fast with tons of grip. IMO, this is the single best reason to go with disc brakes: tire clearance isn't a problem.
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Old 10-09-21, 09:33 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Yeah, someone running 100+ psi in 23s is going to have a different experience. If your bike can fit them I highly recommend going with a bigger tire and lower pressures. I realize this isn't the case for road bikes older than about five years old. Tubeless 28-30 tires at 60-70 psi on broad hookless rims is awesome: supple and fast with tons of grip. IMO, this is the single best reason to go with disc brakes: tire clearance isn't a problem.
I can fit 30s on my R3 rim brake with 4mm of clearance- so not always a need for disc
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Old 10-09-21, 10:17 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
If I ever get a puncture that won't seal with orange seal endurance, I'll try one of the internal patches made for tubeless tires rather than fiddle with plugs or bacon strips.
That will be a LOT more work by the roadside. Just plug it and ride. No need for any further work afterward. Dynaplug is the best plug kit too and easiest to use.
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