tomato coupe

Successful half wheelers never go off the front. They just edge ahead a little bit at a time, and increase the speed of the group gradually. That's the beauty of it -- other riders don't always realize it's happening.

njkayaker

Larry isn't crashing in Grand Tours.

datlas 

Correct. Like the parable about cooking a frog.

tomato coupe

Yep. I originally mentioned frog cooking, but I deleted it because I knew someone would just start arguing about frogs.

WhyFi

Nope. Go read some of his posts on his crashing habit. Grand tours simply don't happen enough for a grand tour rider to crash as much, but even if they were back-to-back all year 'round, the average tour rider would still crash with far less frequency.

​​​​

Eric F 

If we use crashes per mile as the metric, I would bet a medium amount of money that Larry's number looks significantly different than even the most crashy World Tour rider.

Bob Ross

I'm not sure the folks who have quoted my comment understand what Solving A Problem means. Sure, if you re-define the problem as "Mr. (thing) Head is in the group, how do we get him out of the group?" then yes, of course, Letting Him Ride Off The Front gets him out of the group so problem solved. Duh.

But, as I offered -- and have been quoted twice now -- what if the problem is that "You have to teach Mr. (thing) Head how not to ride off the front"?
Letting Him Ride Off The Front does not solve this problem. It doesn't even address it.

WhyFi

I'd disagree. It's a gentle, but not terribly subtle lesson being taught.

Bah Humbug

If guy doesn't mind riding off the front, he likely has different goals that will make that lesson impossible to teach.

Psimet2001 

I didn't read 99% of this thread and have a feeling I have missed so much goodness. Really replying now just so it's marked and I come back but to agree with what you were responding to -

"Lapping" or "Over-lapping" = riding up into the envelope of the bike in front. Not "protecting your wheel".

Half-wheeling = the habit of riding side by side at the front and subtly increasing speed enough to always end up being slightly (about half a wheel's worth of distance) ahead of the rider riding beside.

Half-wheelers are demons in disguise. Do it to me and I will call it out. I will call it out again every 5 minutes when they forget and go back to doing it. I will eventually attack them and make them work. When I explode then they have to wait for me. One or the other.

Psimet2001 

Also - half-wheelers are the same as:

"Man I haven't been riding much - can we just go slow today?" said before causing the group to set new records on every segment of the ride.

See also: "I don't feel great...", "I rode hard yesterday so I need to go easy today...", "My ____ has been acting up....", "It's a recovery week...", "I have an event coming up so I have to go easy..."

tomato coupe

Yo, dude, you're the one re-defining the problem. The rest of us know what the problem is -- a half wheeler gradually increases the speed of the group.

That's NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT the problem.

Bob Ross

For some of us, it is. Hence this dialog [sic].

tomato coupe

Great, then start a thread titled "How do I teach someone not to ride off the front of a group?" But, quit yammering on about it in this thread, because it has nothing to do with half wheeling.

Maelochs

As has been said …. Let him ride off the front …. And let him learn that that is not what he really wants.

What he wants is to have the group ride faster. If the group refuses to ride faster, he will stop trying unsuccessfully to get the group to ride faster … or he will find a faster group.

You seem to understand that we are not talking about one ride, but breaking a habit. The guy does the same thing—half-wheeling, as you term it—and The Rest of the Group responds like Pavlovian hounds, taking the bait and speeding up The Group is the problem. The one shower-head rider didn’t force the peloton to accelerate at gunpoint---he played you all as fools, doing what you Claim you didn’t want to do.

He keep doing it because You keep doing it. It Works, so he does it.

To change the behavior, change Your behavior.

The guy does Not want to ride away … he wants the group to go faster. If You can learn that, you can start teaching the half-wheeler.

If, after every time he half-wheels, some guy (say, @Psimet2001) tells him to stop being a shower-head and get back in his place …. maybe he will learn. If not, let him ride away. He will realize his trick no longer works.

If the guy wants to ride half a wheel ahead … Why Not Let Him? Why not just ignore him?

One Last Time---He does it because of what You do. Don’t bother trying to train Mr. Shower-head. Train the rest of you to stop doing stuff and Blaming Mr. Shower-head. Unless he has a gun and is threatening to shoot you … they YOU are the real problem.

Man up, dude.

Bob Ross

Incorrect

...again.

Bob Ross

I think you and I are actually in agreement:

The "problem" with half-wheeling is not that "a half wheeler gradually increases the speed of the group" as another contributor to this thread tried to summarize it... rather, the "problem" with half-wheeling is that the rest of the group takes the bait and goes with him. iow, it's not his problem, it's everybody else's problem!

A sage and well-respected cyclist from my club once summed it up rather succinctly as "The guy who goes off the front isn't the idiot; the second wheel who chases him is."

Maelochs

Well, then I need to change my position.

I Never agree .... ask anyone.

genejockey 

All of this seems wide of the point.

tomato coupe

Even if you blame the other riders for "taking the bait", the result is the same; the speed of the group increases. The continually increasing speed is the problem, and it all starts with the half wheeler. I think everyone understands this but you.

Sy Reene

So this is not half-wheeling, right?


On a similar note. How bout the riders who are behind you coming up all the way to the front when you have to stop at a red light?

Maelochs

Umm .... Just the opposite.

The half-wheeler is Not increasing the speed. He is just positioning himself 15 inches further ahead. It is the person pulling who increases speed, to close the gap. Then the rest of the line speeds up to close the gaps. The half-wheeler Then and Only Then increases speed---to match the puller. This causes everyone in the outside line to increase speed to close the gaps.

@Bob Ross has it right. The rest of the peloton is speeding up because the half-wheeler is goading them. You don't have to agree. Lots of people think the Moon landings were real.

WhyFi

How would you propose that they got 15" ahead without increasing their speed relative to the person beside them?

Eric F 

These ^^^ are the tactics of fat old guys who are trying to not get dropped.

Sincerely,
- Fat old guy

Psimet2001 

"If i can just slow them down a little bit when they take off from the stop by basically blocking them while I get up to speed I should be golden."

I resemble that remark.