bikehoco

Ignore the troll.

bikehoco

Well stated.

bikehoco

Trolls like that generally have no personal life so they anonymously go online to harass others.

3alarmer 

https://www.bikeforums.net/search.php?searchid=14532761

...if there has been some point made about this topic, that has not already been made before, I would be overjoyed.

indyfabz

I KNEW it!

3alarmer 

.
...in 2007 steel versus carbon, is there really a difference? only went 40 posts before people got bored with it.
Interest in the topic seems to have increased over the years, because...more recently, Steel versus Carbon - Total Weight went almost 550 posts before it died.

Back when we made the transition from wood to steel, I remember there was similar controversy. A lot of guys objected to cranks and pedals, too. Too mechanically complex, cost was excessive, extra weight to slow you down, etc, etc.

RChung

Differences between two things (not just bikes, but almost any two things) can be hard to show if the tests aren't done carefully. Sometimes differences are large so even rough analyses can show the difference; but the smaller the difference, the more careful you have to be. In this particular case, it appears that the results are inconclusive because the experiments weren't conclusive.

genejockey 

I swear to god, it's like some people have no scroll wheel on their mouse.

rsbob 

Francis? You know the best way and surest way to show you are kidding an not being a jerk is by putting a at the end of your phrases. I have seen you attack countless people and so your reputation colors what is written. So now you know. Let’s call this for you and your groupies a “teachable moment”.

P.S. In case you’ve never heard, name calling never strengthened anyone’s argument, it only weakened it. Two teachable moments for the price of one.

70sSanO

Yep. It's the internet.

Someone writes up an article, adds a couple of still photos, and charts knowing that someone out there will believe it because it aligns with a preconceived position.

Pretty bold statements with nothing other than the author's word that any of this even took place; no third party, no verification, nothing.

And somehow all this is true because he looks like he's going so fast.



John

Koyote

I won't promise to ignore an entire thread, but I will put you on my ignore list. It's not all that you asked for, but it's a start!

Precisely. A few scolds are complaining that a disingenuous poster with an agenda, who led with a couple "tests" that wouldn't pass muster in a middle school science fair, was not taken seriously. Apparently, scolds are also rubes.

Precisely. Even if the OP were serious, the topic has been hashed, re-hashed, vomited up and re-hashed again and again, ad infinitum. This is a prime example of why forums have search functions and why google exists.

rsbob 

You speak the truth. Today without trying I rode the 25lb steel bike 30 miles over some roads I usually ride my carbon. To my surprise I had 3 2nd fastest times on flat Strava segments, without even trying. However, I did make a major change before the ride. I changed the tires from Gatorskins to Conti 5000s. The difference was absolutely unbelievable. The gators are going in the trash. See ya later, gator.

Oh another MAJOR difference which has nothing to do with carbon or steel is the grearing for climbs. My largest cog on the steel bike is a 15/36. The carbon has a 36/34 for the hills. Doing 15% climbs on my old steel bike with that gearing was a challenge today. Maybe that’s why I hurt.

amazinmets73

Hmm. Strange you think I have an agenda. I'd been operating on the belief that carbon is superior to all metal frame materials as a race bike due to power transfer. I found a study that seemed to dispel this belief and was curious as to what caused it. In the proceeding post I provided an experiment that exemplified carbon was indeed superior to metal (this experiment was derided as well.) Why would I do that if I had an agenda? I'm just genuinely curious.

And while I do have issues with the modern bike industry, it's not due to the use of carbon fiber...

Koyote

This paragraph is a mess, but in essence it is completely incorrect. Categorically, definitively, incorrect. The exact opposite of correct.

All else being equal, lighter = less stiff. That's true for frames, forks, rims, handlebars...Pretty much everything that goes into a bike. If it weren't true, my steel frames would all have tubes with .05mm wall thicknesses, and they'd be stiff as hell; in reality, such a frame would crumple under a lightweight rider before making it to the end of the driveway.

Maelochs

See how just switching your whining complaint around a little bit makes it obvious that you had no actual question but were just here to .... complain about people interrupting threads to go off-topic.

Really, what would have been so hard about just ignoring this and all those other threads, instead of coming here to criticize other posters?

rsbob 

NumbersGuy, don’t waste your breath or time on them, because they will just twist it around on you. Bullies and trolls can’t and won’t change their stripes no matter how logical your approach. BTDT. The best thing to do is put them on your Ignore list. It makes this a much more pleasant place.

Polaris OBark

Polaris OBark

You might find this of interest: https://www.renehersecycles.com/what-makes-a-bike-fast/

Maelochs

Well ,,,, if a person posts a complaint about people not posting what he likes .... and suggest that those other posters Not post in threads where others post thing they don't like .... that is a pretty fair description of hypocrisy.

A "logical approach" would be to not read and respond to threads and or posts he didn't like.

I agree with you though .... the guy shouldn't waste his time or breath (or the skin of his fingertips) responding here.

As @badger1 noted ... the original post was not itself logical ... it was a joke of a post made by a person who wanted others to think for him .... or wanted to see others argue for his amusement.

If people want us to take jokes seriously .... well, that is their option.

adlai

So I recently completed a carbon bike build and I was really surprised at how comfortable the thing was. Much more than my Alu or steel bikes.

btw, between alu and steel I could tell no difference aside from the skinny tubes being a little nicer to carry. But full carbon there definitely is something there.

livedarklions

Seriously, this is the funniest thing I've read in weeks. How could you possibly infer any kind of "attack" from a question about waving at dogs? I'm not doing emojis just because you have some sort of weird grudge against me that makes you act with offense at an obviously inoffensive silly question.
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Now if you don't mind, your yelling at clouds is killing my groupies' buzz.

P.S. Your teachable moments are providing an example of how silly you get when you can't admit the joke went over your head and instead go on offense.

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livedarklions

Those who can't do, teach. QED

BTW, "trolls can't and won't change their stripes" is a really terrible mixed metaphor. Two lessons for the price of one, indeed.

livedarklions

If you weren't trying to link the op "study" to a larger agenda about the bike industry, why would you post the above that makes that link explicit?

I'm going to take you at your word that you weren't just trolling for a fight, but you really are trying to evade responsibility for why it turned out that way. You posed a question in the op requesting an explanation of the results of the "study" you linked to. So far no problem. When it was pointed out to you that this was really just an incompetent attempt to draw conclusions from a completely dubious experimental setup, you moved the goalposts to demanding someone produce studies that disproved the assertions rather than seriously discussing how hard such a study would be to design.

I disagree with a lot of posters on this thread that the subject is already done. It makes sense to me to occasionally revisit a "x vs. y" issue because technologies, product lines and economies change over time, and we also get more experience with the newer technologies, so it's nice to get some more informed perspectives than were possible a few years ago. I think that's a serious conversation, but I don't think that's what you framed here when you won't concede that the people who bothered to take apart the "study" had a point.

I'm also getting rather sick of the holier than thou crowd that seems to believe that they are the only ones who can disagree with people's opinions without it being trolling. If you don't want to argue about your opinions, don't post them in a forum of people who obviously will have their own opinions.
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Lombard

Let's talk about which chain lube is best or whether rim or disc brakes are better.

indyfabz

See post #35, and try to keep up next time.