One more excuse to skip riding when it's cold
12-08-22, 12:10 PM
#126
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
But it is indeed question of limiting exercise. If you confine yourself indoors during the cold season your daily activity levels are going to plummet.
.
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
Well, yeah.
I'm assuming you didn't read the article. Or if you did you didn't pay attention. The title and end conclusion aren't actually based on the science the article refers to. The actual studies do not discuss exercise at all. They study the effects of cold weather to mortality and other health indicators and outcomes. The actual conclusions of said studies are that cold weather increases mortality. But no mention of exercise.
The science does. It's all about the cold weather. It's unclear whether exercise has an added effect because the studies referenced in the article do not discuss that. But perhaps you know better as exertion clearly exacerbate or whatever..
Umm... so uuh.. people heat up when they move. The more they move the more they heat up. So if breathing during exercise was actually going to cause hypothermia you'd need to be A) severely under dressed and/or B) it'd needs to be extremely cold out. Like, insanely cold.
I'm getting the feeling you're not well versed with cold weather.
I feel that you wanted believe I wrote something that you could slap away so hard that you didn't actually comprehend what I wrote. But having seen some of your other "discussions" here that wouldn't be the first. Or perhaps you just got triggered by the elliptical. But the fact remains that if you have a serious cardiovascular condition then you should be careful during the cold season. If you don't you should NOT limit your outside activities and daily active lifestyle just because it's cold out. That decrease in daily activity will have a larger negative impact than the cold will. Partly because being active and exercising directly combats against the health risks cold weather increases.
Now if you're a freezy kitten (it's a direct translation of a saying) and don't like the cold, well then you don't. Just don't use "health concerns" as an excuse why you can't go winter cycling or running or whatever. You just don't want to. And that's fine too.
Haven't damaged my lungs yet even pushing zone 5 at -40. Can't really avoid the zones 4 or 5 when XC-skiing.
Eh. Only if you want to be aerodynamic. I don't so dressing warmly enough but not too warmly isn't at all difficult. Layering and swapping layers helps. I usually sligthly overdress when going out so I'm not at all cold when I start moving and remove a layer after I start feeling just a tiny bit hot. That has worked fine for rides up to six hours.
Back on the topic of the article I did have a good laugh about the mention that up to 50% of top level XC-skiers, hockey players etc. have exercise induced asthma. I mean, of course they do. Salbutamol is a fantastic doping drug so of course you want to use it if you can (XC skiing is just as dirty as cycling). The naivete of that statement in the article was almost endearing.
I'm assuming you didn't read the article. Or if you did you didn't pay attention. The title and end conclusion aren't actually based on the science the article refers to. The actual studies do not discuss exercise at all. They study the effects of cold weather to mortality and other health indicators and outcomes. The actual conclusions of said studies are that cold weather increases mortality. But no mention of exercise.
The science does. It's all about the cold weather. It's unclear whether exercise has an added effect because the studies referenced in the article do not discuss that. But perhaps you know better as exertion clearly exacerbate or whatever..
Umm... so uuh.. people heat up when they move. The more they move the more they heat up. So if breathing during exercise was actually going to cause hypothermia you'd need to be A) severely under dressed and/or B) it'd needs to be extremely cold out. Like, insanely cold.
I'm getting the feeling you're not well versed with cold weather.
I feel that you wanted believe I wrote something that you could slap away so hard that you didn't actually comprehend what I wrote. But having seen some of your other "discussions" here that wouldn't be the first. Or perhaps you just got triggered by the elliptical. But the fact remains that if you have a serious cardiovascular condition then you should be careful during the cold season. If you don't you should NOT limit your outside activities and daily active lifestyle just because it's cold out. That decrease in daily activity will have a larger negative impact than the cold will. Partly because being active and exercising directly combats against the health risks cold weather increases.
Now if you're a freezy kitten (it's a direct translation of a saying) and don't like the cold, well then you don't. Just don't use "health concerns" as an excuse why you can't go winter cycling or running or whatever. You just don't want to. And that's fine too.
Haven't damaged my lungs yet even pushing zone 5 at -40. Can't really avoid the zones 4 or 5 when XC-skiing.
Eh. Only if you want to be aerodynamic. I don't so dressing warmly enough but not too warmly isn't at all difficult. Layering and swapping layers helps. I usually sligthly overdress when going out so I'm not at all cold when I start moving and remove a layer after I start feeling just a tiny bit hot. That has worked fine for rides up to six hours.
Back on the topic of the article I did have a good laugh about the mention that up to 50% of top level XC-skiers, hockey players etc. have exercise induced asthma. I mean, of course they do. Salbutamol is a fantastic doping drug so of course you want to use it if you can (XC skiing is just as dirty as cycling). The naivete of that statement in the article was almost endearing.
So I reproduced the quote I objected to in the first place just to show how far off the beam you have gone--that activity levels are going to "plummet" if you follow your version of what this article is recommending; or something. Honestly, you seem to be arguing now that the "science" as you understand it, proves too much, and that the real recommendation this article should have been making based on the literature is not to go outside at all. Obviously, that's absurd and is completely unsupported by the very same articles--no, they don't clearly identify the statistical cause of the increased rates of death in cold weather but that's because that data most likely doesn't exist. You've taken the fuzziness of population-level data and concluded from it that you should take from that fuzziness the broadest interpretation of the implications possible. What we do know is that cold has a certain number of effects on individuals, primarily but not exclusively CV and respiratory, and that there is a subset of the population who has limited ability to physically cope with those types of effects. You want to argue that people with heart disease don't have to worry about a factor that's going to increase the amount of CV effort needed to produce the same results, knock yourself out.
Yes, exercise warms the body. That is heat is energy expended by your body, and your CV and other systems are working hard to generate it. The point is your body expended a lot more energy getting up to those warm temperatures than it would if the air temperature was warmer, so your heart is working harder at baseline already and you're now increasing the load on it higher than you would normally.
As to the lungs, your logic is completely off the wall. It is absolutely undeniable that cold dry air would be incredibly irritating to the lungs if the body did not have mechanisms for warming and humidifying that air as it's inspired. That's the reason most people's noses run in the cold The more you inhale and exhale, the closer you get to the boundaries of the body's ability to do such regulation. I don't doubt for a second that most people can train up to increasing their capacity to do this, in a former life, I have done such things. I now can't because the scar tissue in my lung appears to be irritated more easily. I honestly don't care if you think that's a valid excuse, I don't know why you think you're qualified to tell other people much of anything about what does or doesn't constitute a "health reason".
I waited until my cardiac testing showed that I had suffered no significant coronary damage from my clot-induced heart attack before I started back to intense exercise, and I'll take my personalized risk assessment from myself rather than you, thank you very much. I do know that my activity does not "plummet" during the winter despite my lack of bicycling activity--if it makes you feel less butthurt that saying that that claim was full of crap and faulting you for basing an entire argument on that absurdity indicates that I was "triggered", fine. I get annoyed when people start making claims that things that happen every day are somehow impossible. If you think activity has to plummet if we don't exercise in the cold, I take it you're unfamiliar with the concept of a gym.
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12-08-22, 12:34 PM
#127
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I grew up in Minnesota and I live in New England. Since I've also lived in New Orleans, I'm very well versed in extreme temperatures at both ends and have plenty of experience exercising in such conditions.
So I reproduced the quote I objected to in the first place just to show how far off the beam you have gone--that activity levels are going to "plummet" if you follow your version of what this article is recommending; or something. Honestly, you seem to be arguing now that the "science" as you understand it, proves too much, and that the real recommendation this article should have been making based on the literature is not to go outside at all. Obviously, that's absurd and is completely unsupported by the very same articles--no, they don't clearly identify the statistical cause of the increased rates of death in cold weather but that's because that data most likely doesn't exist. You've taken the fuzziness of population-level data and concluded from it that you should take from that fuzziness the broadest interpretation of the implications possible. What we do know is that cold has a certain number of effects on individuals, primarily but not exclusively CV and respiratory, and that there is a subset of the population who has limited ability to physically cope with those types of effects. You want to argue that people with heart disease don't have to worry about a factor that's going to increase the amount of CV effort needed to produce the same results, knock yourself out.
Yes, exercise warms the body. That is heat is energy expended by your body, and your CV and other systems are working hard to generate it. The point is your body expended a lot more energy getting up to those warm temperatures than it would if the air temperature was warmer, so your heart is working harder at baseline already and you're now increasing the load on it higher than you would normally.
As to the lungs, your logic is completely off the wall. It is absolutely undeniable that cold dry air would be incredibly irritating to the lungs if the body did not have mechanisms for warming and humidifying that air as it's inspired. That's the reason most people's noses run in the cold The more you inhale and exhale, the closer you get to the boundaries of the body's ability to do such regulation. I don't doubt for a second that most people can train up to increasing their capacity to do this, in a former life, I have done such things. I now can't because the scar tissue in my lung appears to be irritated more easily. I honestly don't care if you think that's a valid excuse, I don't know why you think you're qualified to tell other people much of anything about what does or doesn't constitute a "health reason".
I waited until my cardiac testing showed that I had suffered no significant coronary damage from my clot-induced heart attack before I started back to intense exercise, and I'll take my personalized risk assessment from myself rather than you, thank you very much. I do know that my activity does not "plummet" during the winter despite my lack of bicycling activity--if it makes you feel less butthurt that saying that that claim was full of crap and faulting you for basing an entire argument on that absurdity indicates that I was "triggered", fine. I get annoyed when people start making claims that things that happen every day are somehow impossible. If you think activity has to plummet if we don't exercise in the cold, I take it you're unfamiliar with the concept of a gym.
So I reproduced the quote I objected to in the first place just to show how far off the beam you have gone--that activity levels are going to "plummet" if you follow your version of what this article is recommending; or something. Honestly, you seem to be arguing now that the "science" as you understand it, proves too much, and that the real recommendation this article should have been making based on the literature is not to go outside at all. Obviously, that's absurd and is completely unsupported by the very same articles--no, they don't clearly identify the statistical cause of the increased rates of death in cold weather but that's because that data most likely doesn't exist. You've taken the fuzziness of population-level data and concluded from it that you should take from that fuzziness the broadest interpretation of the implications possible. What we do know is that cold has a certain number of effects on individuals, primarily but not exclusively CV and respiratory, and that there is a subset of the population who has limited ability to physically cope with those types of effects. You want to argue that people with heart disease don't have to worry about a factor that's going to increase the amount of CV effort needed to produce the same results, knock yourself out.
Yes, exercise warms the body. That is heat is energy expended by your body, and your CV and other systems are working hard to generate it. The point is your body expended a lot more energy getting up to those warm temperatures than it would if the air temperature was warmer, so your heart is working harder at baseline already and you're now increasing the load on it higher than you would normally.
As to the lungs, your logic is completely off the wall. It is absolutely undeniable that cold dry air would be incredibly irritating to the lungs if the body did not have mechanisms for warming and humidifying that air as it's inspired. That's the reason most people's noses run in the cold The more you inhale and exhale, the closer you get to the boundaries of the body's ability to do such regulation. I don't doubt for a second that most people can train up to increasing their capacity to do this, in a former life, I have done such things. I now can't because the scar tissue in my lung appears to be irritated more easily. I honestly don't care if you think that's a valid excuse, I don't know why you think you're qualified to tell other people much of anything about what does or doesn't constitute a "health reason".
I waited until my cardiac testing showed that I had suffered no significant coronary damage from my clot-induced heart attack before I started back to intense exercise, and I'll take my personalized risk assessment from myself rather than you, thank you very much. I do know that my activity does not "plummet" during the winter despite my lack of bicycling activity--if it makes you feel less butthurt that saying that that claim was full of crap and faulting you for basing an entire argument on that absurdity indicates that I was "triggered", fine. I get annoyed when people start making claims that things that happen every day are somehow impossible. If you think activity has to plummet if we don't exercise in the cold, I take it you're unfamiliar with the concept of a gym.
I don't currently have time to tackle your wookie defense but I'll see if I can revisit this sometime later.
It's just sad that you have such a strong compulsion to be right or "win" internet arguments that it drives you to create such a jumbled mess. But again, I'm not surprised. I've seen your other "discussions"
12-08-22, 01:19 PM
#128
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
You're inventing so much stuff and frankly lying... it's almost as if we're not in the same reality.
I don't currently have time to tackle your wookie defense but I'll see if I can revisit this sometime later.
It's just sad that you have such a strong compulsion to be right or "win" internet arguments that it drives you to create such a jumbled mess. But again, I'm not surprised. I've seen your other "discussions"
I don't currently have time to tackle your wookie defense but I'll see if I can revisit this sometime later.
It's just sad that you have such a strong compulsion to be right or "win" internet arguments that it drives you to create such a jumbled mess. But again, I'm not surprised. I've seen your other "discussions"
Seriously, don't bother "finding" time to go off on another of your silly tangents. I don't have any reason to read it and won't. I've read enough of your posts to know you have nothing interesting to say.
Last edited by livedarklions; 12-08-22 at 01:23 PM.
12-08-22, 01:30 PM
#129
Senior Member
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Honestly, this is hilarious coming from you.. All I said was that it wasn't an issue of limiting exercise because people can do plenty of exercise indoors in the winter and you started us down this silly rabbit hole by claiming that the article a) was about not going outside at all in the winter, and then when that was obviously not the case, arguing b) that it should have been about that given its sources and further that I should have known that the hypothetical case for not going outside was what this thread was "really" about..
Seriously, don't bother "finding" time to go off on another of your silly tangents. I don't have any reason to read it and won't. I've read enough of your posts to know you have nothing interesting to say.
Seriously, don't bother "finding" time to go off on another of your silly tangents. I don't have any reason to read it and won't. I've read enough of your posts to know you have nothing interesting to say.
But I suppose this is what you do. You go off from a single harmless comment and go on these incomprehensible rants until other people give up and you can declare yourself the victor.
12-08-22, 01:57 PM
#130
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You know it's cold outside when you go outside and it's cold.
Here's a better article than the one Terry posted from some quack looking for clicks.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/stayi...inter-workouts
Here's a better article than the one Terry posted from some quack looking for clicks.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/stayi...inter-workouts
12-08-22, 02:21 PM
#131
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Not a BF censor approved video... but given the discussion, I think it needs to be posted again. And I can't wait for my femur fracture to heal enough that I can get back out on my Fat Tire Bike.
And if you think cold is going to harm you,or if your medical provider has told you to avoid exercise in the cold, follow the simple instructions in the video. If not, come outside and join the fun and help me keep my sidewalk clear...
And if you think cold is going to harm you,or if your medical provider has told you to avoid exercise in the cold, follow the simple instructions in the video. If not, come outside and join the fun and help me keep my sidewalk clear...
12-08-22, 03:10 PM
#132
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Another thread headed in this direction:
12-08-22, 03:26 PM
#133
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Originally Posted by prj71
You know it's cold outside when you go outside and it's cold.
Here's a better article than the one Terry posted from some quack looking for clicks.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/stayi...inter-workouts
Here's a better article than the one Terry posted from some quack looking for clicks.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/stayi...inter-workouts
Comparing the two web pages, only the Mirkin one references peer-reviewed journal articles to back up its claims.
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12-08-22, 03:36 PM
#134
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR
Not a BF censor approved video... but given the discussion, I think it needs to be posted again. And I can't wait for my femur fracture to heal enough that I can get back out on my Fat Tire Bike.
And if you think cold is going to harm you,or if your medical provider has told you to avoid exercise in the cold, follow the simple instructions in the video. If not, come outside and join the fun and help me keep my sidewalk clear...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAq1Ml3PlGc
And if you think cold is going to harm you,or if your medical provider has told you to avoid exercise in the cold, follow the simple instructions in the video. If not, come outside and join the fun and help me keep my sidewalk clear...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAq1Ml3PlGc
I grew up in Minnesota, and there is nothing colder than Great Plains cold. Ain't nothing stopping that wind. Fargo is scary cold to Minnesotans.
12-09-22, 09:42 AM
#135
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Guys,
Me and some friends went out biking in 15 degree weather last night. And to make matters worse...we rode our bikes on frozen lakes!!! None of us died.
Had we went to McDonalds instead, where it's warm, and threw back a couple of quarter pounders and fries we would have increased our chances of dying.
Me and some friends went out biking in 15 degree weather last night. And to make matters worse...we rode our bikes on frozen lakes!!! None of us died.
Had we went to McDonalds instead, where it's warm, and threw back a couple of quarter pounders and fries we would have increased our chances of dying.
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12-09-22, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by prj71
Guys,
Me and some friends went out biking in 15 degree weather last night. And to make matters worse...we rode our bikes on frozen lakes!!! None of us died.
Had we went to McDonalds instead, where it's warm, and threw back a couple of quarter pounders and fries we would have increased our chances of dying.
Me and some friends went out biking in 15 degree weather last night. And to make matters worse...we rode our bikes on frozen lakes!!! None of us died.
Had we went to McDonalds instead, where it's warm, and threw back a couple of quarter pounders and fries we would have increased our chances of dying.
12-09-22, 10:48 AM
#137
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Probably the most dangerous part of this activity is having drunk snowmobilers collide with you.
12-09-22, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by prj71
Huh? Where does that come from?
12-09-22, 11:13 AM
#139
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Not sure if that's a thing where you are, but racing snowmobiles at night on lakes in the Adirondacks is quite common.
12-09-22, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by prj71
It's a thing where the designated snowmobile trail cross the lakes in certain parts of my state. However...not a thing where we ride and the numerous pot hole lakes we cross in the county forest. No snowmobiles where we ride.
Being in Wisconsin, your biggest safety threat is encountering cannibals.
Sorry, couldn't resist the cheap shot since I'm from Minnesota,
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12-09-22, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Being in Wisconsin, your biggest safety threat is encountering cannibals.
Sorry, couldn't resist the cheap shot since I'm from Minnesota,
Sorry, couldn't resist the cheap shot since I'm from Minnesota,
12-09-22, 11:54 AM
#142
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Lol...they keep the cannibals in Milwaukee. I'm in the northern part of the state that is sparsely populated.
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12-09-22, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71
Lol...they keep the cannibals in Milwaukee. I'm in the northern part of the state that is sparsely populated.
Was it always sparsely populated or did the cannibals get take out?
12-09-22, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Being in Wisconsin, your biggest safety threat is encountering cannibals.
Sorry, couldn't resist the cheap shot since I'm from Minnesota,
Sorry, couldn't resist the cheap shot since I'm from Minnesota,
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12-09-22, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Sounds cheesy.
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12-09-22, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
The cheese is moldy and not in a good way.
NFC NORTH STANDINGS
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Eagles Vikings championship game?
12-09-22, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I grew up in Minnesota, and there is nothing colder than Great Plains cold. Ain't nothing stopping that wind. Fargo is scary cold to Minnesotans.
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12-09-22, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Eagles Vikings championship game?
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12-09-22, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Some of us were amazed when we realized that we spent two weeks in Minnesota while riding across the country. That was second only to Montana. Crossed into Moorhead from Fargo and headed NE to Bemidji before heading SSE until we crossed the border into IA below Brownsville. Had a rest day at Lake Itasca and one in Minneapolis. The day we rode to Lake Itasca was wet and quite chilly--in early July. Riding along the east side of Mille Lacs Lake we passed a lot full of what we finally realized were ice fishing huts. No thanks.
In June.
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12-09-22, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
. Riding along the east side of Mille Lacs Lake we passed a lot full of what we finally realized were ice fishing huts. No thanks.
