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The Classic & Vintage Pass Around [Cotter] Press

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The Classic & Vintage Pass Around [Cotter] Press

Old 12-18-22, 07:57 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Hondo6
Question: should this thread be a "sticky", so that members needing to use the loaner service could find the rules (and the current location of the loaner press) easily?
To reduce the number of stickies in the main forum, I dare say it wouldn't be a bad thing for there to be a loaner tools subforum if we could get enough equipment in rotation.

It'd certainly be more orderly (and could be subject to slightly more rigid post rules so rental requests don't get lost amongst the chat).

-Kurt
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Old 12-18-22, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
To reduce the number of stickies in the main forum, I dare say it wouldn't be a bad thing for there to be a loaner tools subforum if we could get enough equipment in rotation.

It'd certainly be more orderly (and could be subject to slightly more rigid post rules so rental requests don't get lost amongst the chat).

-Kurt
That would work even better. It would also give those willing to loan personally-owned hard-to-find tools (like a Stronglight or TA crank puller, or several obsolete freewheel removers) on a "send and return" basis a place to post their availability and the rules for requesting same.

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Old 12-18-22, 08:25 AM
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This is an amazing gesture by Kurt to the C&V community on the forums. The gesture and this cotter press will go a long way to further foster the camaraderie and goodwill in the classic and vintage sub that already exists.
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Old 12-19-22, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo6
As others have said before: the generosity of C&V forum members is astounding.

Question: should this thread be a "sticky", so that members needing to use the loaner service could find the rules (and the current location of the loaner press) easily?
Originally Posted by cudak888
To reduce the number of stickies in the main forum, I dare say it wouldn't be a bad thing for there to be a loaner tools subforum if we could get enough equipment in rotation.

It'd certainly be more orderly (and could be subject to slightly more rigid post rules so rental requests don't get lost amongst the chat).

-Kurt
I like this idea.

Except, we've known former BF members who did not share the same proclivities for trustworthiness, and timely responsibility. I suppose it would be up to the tool owner to determine if a member can be trusted or not with a rare tool. Those who participate would need to evaluate his/her risk tolerance, similar to making investment decisions.

On another note, for the Cotter Press, a map graphic showing its travels would be fun.
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Old 12-19-22, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
I like this idea.

Except, we've known former BF members who did not share the same proclivities for trustworthiness, and timely responsibility. I suppose it would be up to the tool owner to determine if a member can be trusted or not with a rare tool. Those who participate would need to evaluate his/her risk tolerance, similar to making investment decisions.

On another note, for the Cotter Press, a map graphic showing its travels would be fun.
Loss of the tool is a risk all of the tool loaners have to understand is a possibility. Hence why as many angles are covered as possible in the rules.

As for lack of trustworthiness, well - I see no reason to avoid calling out any member who attempts to take the tool for themselves. Plus, if it shows on eBay, it's technically stolen property - one of the reasons I'm open to any member who can laser-cut the thread name to the tool.

A map would be fun, but a first taker would be even more so.

-Kurt
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Old 12-19-22, 10:05 AM
  #31  
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Kurt,
I would suggest treating it like the BOC for the list of recipients and the members who have had it. It should likely be on the first post of the thread like the BOC. It should be easy enough to go back and edit to include the rules and the list of users just as I do for the BOC every week. Smiles, MH
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Old 12-19-22, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by John E
I have a Stronglight cotterless puller, which I bought after buying the PKN-10. Why did they have to use an oddball size?
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Stronglight invented the square taper cotterless crank, so there was no existing standard for them to use. Why they chose that particular size is a mystery. Perhaps they got a deal on 16mm bolts and calculated that 23.35mm was an appropriate diameter for the extractor, to fit available 16mm sockets.

Another mystery is why Zeus chose to follow Stronglight in using 16mm mounting bolts, but put them in a 22mm extractor hole, requiring a particularly thin-wall socket to remove the bolts.
Oh, it's more oddball than that. There is no guarantee that your Stronglight crank (at least the 93) will actually have the Stronglight 23.35mm standard threading. They sometimes used the TA standard 23mm threading. I was clued into that by somebody here on BF, and it saved me from destroying the threads on my brother-in-laws Stronglight 93 when I was overhauling his early 70s Gitane TdF. I have no idea how common this issues is, but I can tell you personal experience it is real.
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Old 12-19-22, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
There is no guarantee that your Stronglight crank (at least the 93) will actually have the Stronglight 23.35mm standard threading. They sometimes used the TA standard 23mm threading. I was clued into that by somebody here on BF, and it saved me from destroying the threads on my brother-in-laws Stronglight 93 when I was overhauling his early 70s Gitane TdF. I have no idea how common this issues is, but I can tell you personal experience it is real.
What tool were you using when this happened? Using a TA puller on a pre-1982 Stronglight crank can ruin the threads on the crank, but a 23.35mm Stronglight puller will not fit into either a 23mm crank arm opening or a 22mm opening. A 22mm tool will not engage any threads on a 23.35 mm Stronglight arm. Post-1982 Stronglight cranks use de facto standard 22mm x 1mm pullers. Post-1982 Stronglight cranks use 22mm x 1mm extractors.
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Old 12-20-22, 12:42 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
What tool were you using when this happened? [snip]
I have a Stein Stronglight puller and tried that first. In fact, I bought the Stein specifically to pull that particular Stronglight crank. Thank God I proceeded sloooowly and carefully and stopped at the first sign of threads stripping. I then used the TA-compatible side of the older Park two-sided tool, and that worked with no further harm done. It makes no sense, and it should not have been the case, but it was. I chalk it up to the French being, well, French. C'est le vie, and all that.
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Old 12-20-22, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
I have a Stein Stronglight puller and tried that first. In fact, I bought the Stein specifically to pull that particular Stronglight crank. Thank God I proceeded sloooowly and carefully and stopped at the first sign of threads stripping. I then used the TA-compatible side of the older Park two-sided tool, and that worked with no further harm done. It makes no sense, and it should not have been the case, but it was. I chalk it up to the French being, well, French. C'est le vie, and all that.
Was this a post-1982 crank? If so, were you the original owner? I've had plenty of Stronglight and TA cranks over the years and never seen what you describe. I'd find it more likely that a previous owner damaged the threads before passing it on.
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Old 12-20-22, 07:29 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
On another note, for the Cotter Press, a map graphic showing its travels would be fun.
Add a rule for users to post a photo of said tool on location in their shop.
That way it will be like one of those garden gnomes on extended holiday.
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Old 12-20-22, 11:05 PM
  #37  
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The Stronglight crank puller showed up today, several days before I expected it. I'll try to get the pass-around thread started next week.

I don't intend to police this thread - I'm just going to post it, then mail it to the first requester and see what happens, like Paddle-to-the-Sea for bike tools. This tool looks pretty simple and solid, but in my experience crank-pullers do not last forever.
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Old 12-20-22, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Was this a post-1982 crank? If so, were you the original owner? I've had plenty of Stronglight and TA cranks over the years and never seen what you describe. I'd find it more likely that a previous owner damaged the threads before passing it on.
Nope, it was OEM on an early 70s Gitane TdF (my brother-in-law's bike - he is the original and only owner). I can check, but dollars to donuts it had never been off the bike since purchased. In any event, I successfully got the crank off, installed a Red Clover triplizer, and reinstalled it, and I have no intention of ever removing it again.
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Old 12-21-22, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
... In any event, I successfully got the crank off, installed a Red Clover triplizer, and reinstalled it, and I have no intention of ever removing it again.
I would absolutely call that a happy ending.
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Old 12-22-22, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
Oh, it's more oddball than that. There is no guarantee that your Stronglight crank (at least the 93) will actually have the Stronglight 23.35mm standard threading. They sometimes used the TA standard 23mm threading.
Well, I just encountered the same thing. The crank is a Stronglight 49d on an early 70s Follis. I know nothing of the history of the bike.

The Stein puller came in yesterday, and I just tried threading it in. Would not turn even half a rotation. Fortunately I ordered a TA puller at the same time (if I'm going to be king of the obsolete crank pullers I might as well save shipping), so I tried that. Threads in smooth as butter. Maybe a little too smooth, but as far as I know nobody makes 23.1 mm crank pullers. I'll stop hijacking Kurt's cotter press thread with stories about crank pullers now - I'll eventually do a little thread on this bike.
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Old 12-22-22, 11:43 AM
  #41  
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Stronglight cranks cut to the TA standard thread sounds more than a little strange to me, especially as Stronglight supplied their own proprietary puller.
And they would also have to make special crankarm caps if they changed the puller threading!

Perhaps some damage or detritus about the puller threads effectively reduced the threaded opening(?)
Did the affected crankarms match, left and right?
Were the affected crankarms protected with a proper Stronglight cap???


One can remove 23.3mm Stronglight arms using a TA 23mm puller, but for safety the tool should be only moderately tightened, incrementally, and with intermittent jumping on the pedals in both directions as the tool is tightened further in steps. The jumping-induced torque on the spindle ends helps the arm to break free of it's static-friction bond on the spindle.
This same approach can help with removing stuck crankarms, and with helping to get arms fully seated onto nutted spindles (whose inferior, coarse 10mm threading tends to fracture).

As for this pass-around or any cotter press, know that cotters often enough will require heat in addition to a good press in order to remove a cotter without bending the threaded stud.
Be sure to stop turning the tool's bolt if the cotter stud starts yielding, leaving the tool in place, tensioned, then apply torch heat to the arm knuckle to the point of some grease smoking. This worked on one recent Raleigh Super Course where even the very thick-studded Whitworth cotters each began to yield before sliding out.

A warning about USPS:
Last year, I sent out two packages of very nice, Italian-made oversized MTB brake cable sets to a west-coast forum member, using USPS 2-day priority.
USPS ended up telling me, on two separate occasions, that the package never left their facility.
But even worse was that they demanded a non-existent purchase receipt before they would even consider honoring their insurance.

Last edited by dddd; 12-22-22 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 12-22-22, 02:33 PM
  #42  
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I know "it's only original once", but that would look cool in chromovelato...

Originally Posted by juvela
-----
side note - most readers are likely familiar with the VAR press - LARGE in terms of size/weight
was recently reminded that Cyclo of England offered a very similar tool -





-----
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Old 12-22-22, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
I know "it's only original once", but that would look cool in chromovelato...
How about Mad Honk Powdercoalato?






-Kurt
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Old 12-22-22, 05:40 PM
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Kurt,
It is so nice to see the tool being used! The real reason it is in your hands. Smiles, MH
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Old 12-22-22, 05:48 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by jonwvara
I would absolutely call that a happy ending.
As would I.
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Old 12-22-22, 06:19 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk
Kurt,
It is so nice to see the tool being used! The real reason it is in your hands. Smiles, MH
It's a delight to use, Dave! Can't thank you enough for it.

FYI, I went into a bit more detail about using it in this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-princess.html

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Old 12-23-22, 08:11 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by cudak888
How about Mad Honk Powdercoalato?
-Kurt
Looks good, would look better with red pin striping -- maybe start a new trend and a topic, "show us your custom-finished tools".
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Old 12-23-22, 09:12 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
Looks good, would look better with red pin striping -- maybe start a new trend and a topic, "show us your custom-finished tools".
The only gussying up I want on my tools is grease from my grubby paws

I'm the type that believes that tools are for getting stuff done on the gussied up stuff, not for being gussied up themselves. Makes it easier to use the tools without regret about putting them anywhere where they may get a scratch or two.

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Old 12-23-22, 09:22 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by cudak888
I'm the type that believes that tools are for getting stuff done on the gussied up stuff, not for being gussied up themselves. Makes it easier to use the tools without regret about putting them anywhere where they may get a scratch or two.
So, "tool patina"? Not sure I disagree.

My brother's tool chest, the last time I saw it, looked like the display case at Tiffany's (this guy can polish anything). Not sure I could match that.
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Old 12-30-22, 10:45 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
Nope, it was OEM on an early 70s Gitane TdF (my brother-in-law's bike - he is the original and only owner). I can check, but dollars to donuts it had never been off the bike since purchased. In any event, I successfully got the crank off, installed a Red Clover triplizer, and reinstalled it, and I have no intention of ever removing it again.
Picked up a Park Tool Double sided remover TA/Stronglight if ever needed. Also a. PT cotter press.
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