Raimund

I’m not happy with the old v-arm brakes on my 1995 Raleigh Chromoly M40 All-Terrain. I’m hoping something new will go on the mounting studs. There is an old adjustment tab with three different holes that I figure is for fixing the spring in such a way as to adjust the spring tension. But it was not in use with the brakes that originally came with the bike. So I put the parts back on in a different order to try to make use of this adjustment plate. I am going to try including some photos showing this as well as the way it is supposed to be assembled. Anyway, that was fun but pretty silly - and is only a slight improvement. I figure I might expect to be able to get something new that will fit on those studs. Any guidance on what to look for folks?



The way it’s supposed to go

Adjustment plate

Getting creative

Dave Mayer

OK.. against my better judgement, I'll bite.


These are not V-brakes - completely different spring system.


The spring on the first pic is on the wrong side of the caliper arm, it should be between the frame and the caliper. From the inadequate pics, I assume that this is a front brake. As such, braking forces will push the arms forward (to the right in the first pic) causing the spring to compress. This will result in the calipers sliding fore and aft over the brake bosses, eventually causing erosion and a sloppy attachment. Further, this will also cause brake shudder and squeal, as the spring compresses and decompresses.


Finally the little silver plate that holds the spring on the right side - I cannot tell how it can be prevented from rotating against the brake boss. If the bolt comes slightly loose, then it will rotate, and the spring will unwind.


Brakes are mission-critical parts; everything has to be perfectly spec'd and installed. I suggest you take this all to a professional shop, and have a good new set of canti brakes installed according to manufacturer specs.


BTW: the spring should be installed in the middle hole. I've worked on hundreds of canti brake setups, and the only time where the brakes did not work best in the middle hole, was when something was seriously wrong with the calipers or the cable housing runs or both.

freeranger

Can't tell much from the pics. This site should help you identify what type of brakes you have and how to set them up: Rim Brake Identification | Park Tool

Schweinhund

Nope, other guy is right, those are cantilever brakes.
But it wouldn't hurt to put some really skippy brake pads on those brakes.
I bet it would put a smile on your face.
Any of the post mount pads here are an upgrade for you
https://www.amazon.com/cantilever-br...ver+brake+pads
. If you really want to you can replace your brakes with more cantilevers or V Brakes. They fit the same mount.

Andrew R Stewart 

I believe that the brakes (canti type, not Vs) are of the design that the spring tension is adjustable via a plate that sits just under the post bolt head. The boss's spring holes are not at all needed. (BTW this is much like how U brakes are done with their spring holeless and slightly different boss dimensions). Dia Compe among other brands, used this spring adjusting design on a number of their offerings.

As to the motivation to change out the old cantis I wonder what might have been tried before this step was decided on. New pads, new cables/casings? Rim brake tracks sanded or otherwise serviced?

Brakes are very simple lever systems. changing the lengths of the levers (as in the arm pivot to cable attachment point or the control lever on the bars) will change the pads' clamping pressures for the same hand pull strength. But the lever length between the pivot and the pad is not going to change. Changing the pads to ones that have greater friction abilities is another method to improve the "power". Cables with low friction movements help insure more of the hand's strength gets to the pads.

I don't suggest doing what the OP has done with their springs. While this won't make a difference in stopping safety (assuming the post bolts are properly tightened it can effect the pads retracting from the rim and might cause pad rub when not applying the bakes. Andy

veganbikes

These are cantilever brakes, V-Brakes are a wholly owned trademark of Shimano. Linear pull brakes are the kind of brakes that Shimano is producing under the V-Brake trademark.

I would take it to a shop but being it is a Raleigh M40 I wouldn't put much money towards it. It could probably use a lot of work and you might consider looking at newer options. If you are stuck on that bike and the brakes are worn out I would look at the BR-CT91s they are common cantilever brakes from Shimano. If things are not worn out new cables and housing and pads and shoes would be the way to go.

Raimund

I should not have sent that dumb photo of the brake put back together improperly. Sorry, this must be frustrating for you folks. Anyway, I just think it’s odd that the 3-hole plate is not used with the brakes that are on it. And I was suspecting that the holes in this plate would not accommodate the nubs that v-brakes arms require to be installed into. But I was not sure. So I’m not shocked to learn that they are not in fact v-arm brakes. I have already done a lot of work on the bike and these brakes are just the last thing I’m putting back onto it. Sort of took these for granted. The front ones are working ok but I might just go ahead and change these too. The back brakes have insufficiently weak spring back when released. So they rub on the rim too easily. One of the springs is rusty and thinned on these back brakes so I figure this has diminished its springiness. I’d be happy to find out what kind of brakes I can get that will work on these brake posts. So for a start I’ll look at these BR-CT91s. Thanks.

Camilo

Linear pull brakes, aka V brakes, also mount to those posts if the OP wishes to go that route. I changed the canti brakes to linear pull on my first "gravel" bike, a Jamis Nova Pro cross bike I re-built for non-CX-specific gearing etc.

Canti and linear pull do need different brake levers as they have different "pulls". Canti work well with normal road bike levers. Linear pull need typical MTB flat bar levers or road levers that are made for them (Cane Creek and Tektro make them). If you want to use regular road brake/shift levers (Shimano STI, Sram double tap, Campy Ergo, etc.) you need to get a linear pull braker cable convertor/adapter which is very doable and is what I did on the gravel bike. The one I'm familiar with is called "Travel Agent" but I now see there's several other similar versions.

OP: as others have said, whether they're linear pull/V brakes or cantilever brakes, proper adjustment and good pads are essential, and if done correctly, are excellent stoppers. I might recommend that you study up on whichever brake you prefer and mount and adjust them yourself. It's really not that hard, but you do need to have some good DIY guides and follow them.

Raimund

Appreciate your patient reply. I think I have enough to go with here now. Thanks.

Schweinhund

It's a generic term. Like zip tie, whiteout, impact wrench and may many name brands that came to represent a type of product.
28 years is all they have and then, poof.
VBrakes, they are all vbrakes.

Schweinhund

Except direct pull cantilever brakes, Sheldon Brown says that is what they are.

veganbikes

Nope it is not it is literally a wholly owned trademark of the Shimano Corporation:
https://trademarks.justia.com/747/19...-74719391.html it is still current and hasn't gone to public at any point it is still owned by them.

Also Wite-Out:
https://trademarks.justia.com/724/50/wite-72450352.html

Impact wrench is long expired so sure:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US2012916A/en

There is a shoe brand that makes a red zip-tie that got a trademark but I couldn't find anything original for zip ties so yeah can go for that.

However again as we have proved beyond a reasonable doubt V-Brakes are still a wholly owned trademark of the Shimano Corporation and the Trademark is still registered and renewed (this would be the second time they renewed it). I am not sure why this still has to be a bad argument we can read the trademark for free online very easily or could schlep to the US government trademark office and get it there. There is no point in calling non-Shimano linear pull brakes "V-Brakes" because they literally aren't. It is just silly to call them that when they clearly aren't because Shimano as shown again that they are still actively holding the patent for their brakes.

Schweinhund

You want to stop hearing about you being wrong, stop spouting BS when you're wrong. Generic. Term
Google generic term.

veganbikes

How am I wrong? I have proven to you that V-Brakes are a wholly owned and updated trademark of the Shimano Corporation. How are you going to come back from that? It cannot be a generic term if it is still owned by Shimano. Just because you and others are too lazy to say linear pull brakes doesn't mean it is a generic term. It is not generic it was recently, back in 2017, renewed by Shimano as their trademark.

There is no B.S here here is that trademark again from the United States Patent and Trademark Office; https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showf...808:a072on.2.2
https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showf...808:a072on.2.1

I cannot think of a less B.S. source for trademark info then the actual government organization that grants and handles these trademarks in the U.S.

You can fight it all you want but you have lost, there is nothing you can say that can go against the actual trademark unless you were the inventor maybe and we were fighting this in court. It is not generic.

In fact if you search generic on Google you get this definition: "a consumer product having no brand name or registered trademark."

dedhed

Who TF really cares whether V-Brake is a Shimano trademark when it's being used in common language on a bike forum?
Does someone need a KleenexŪ?

Raimund

You guys are way beyond me. I just figured out what OP means - that’s me! Excellent fellow at the bike shop here gave me a set of Tektro Oryx canti rear wheel brakes for C$20. Went on real nice. Took her for an hour and a half ride in the snow for a test run. Love the sing of the tires cutting through the snow. I’m good to go - I mean stop.

veganbikes

Because some people are trying to claim it is a generic term. It is not a generic term and shouldn't be used as such. Using incorrect language out of laziness or whatever reason is silly.

dedhed

Neither is Kleenex and it is commonly used generically. Is pedantic generic?

Raimund

I wonder how Baron Karl von Drais would feel about us calling his Laufmachine a bike? Personally I think they were on to something with dandy horse. Pity they didn’t trademark that, I must say.

veganbikes

It is also wrong but yeah I guess people just get super lazy to the point they forget what is reality and what is in their heads. I call a tissue a tissue or sometimes a hanky if it is reusable. Apparently a magenta hanky in the left pocket means you want someone to suck your armpits and on the right pocket it is an armpit lover.

Kleenex is also still a registered trademark of Kimberly-Clark therefore would not be generic as we saw from the definition.

If you need to be generic get a tissue and some linear pull brakes and problem solved. When I want chips I do actually want Kettle Brand chips not brand claiming kettle cooked but actual Kettle Brand because they make the best salt and vinegar chips out there and those jalapeņo chips are also good. When we break these things down it makes it harder to communicate. If you want just anything then yes go generic use a generic term but if you want something specific the actual trademark shouldn't be sullied by people claiming it to be generic when it is clearly not.

dedhed

Seems like a lot of lazy sellers out there...

​​​​​​https://cambriabike.com/products/tek...-v-brake-black

​​​​​​https://www.porkchopbmx.com/dia-comp...per-white.html

ClydeClydeson

WOW!~

So pedantic! As humans we have 'correct' language, and we have 'colloquial' language that may not be strictly correct, but is absolutely accepted as correct language in most scenarios.
Kleenex and Rollerblades and V Brakes are examples of terms that are not literally correct but are accepted terms in common use. Generic trademark - Wikipedia

If this bothers you it's something to discuss with your therapist, not a topic you need to obsess over to police random internet commenters.

veganbikes

Nope don't need a therapist, sorry. Maybe people need help distinguishing between a linear pull brake and a Shimano V-Brake, I can figure it out it is easy takes no time and no real effort on my part. It is kind of sad others can't.

ClydeClydeson

THe issue is not people's understanding, but your insistence that people must use language in a way you find correct, and that, even though the vast majority of rational people accept we can use multiple different names for the same object and still be understood, it is your way of using the language that is the only correct way. You're right, the rest of the world is wrong.

FWIW, inability to see things through the eyes of others, or understand what they are trying to communicate, is not generally considered a sign of high intelligence.

veganbikes

We can go back to the definition again if need be, that will solve your issues: "a consumer product having no brand name or registered trademark."

If we don't define our language communication becomes quite tough. Yes I get we will always have slang and such but say I want an actual Kleenex brand tissue and someone hands me a Puffs or a store brand because they took Kleenex to mean just any thing whatever who cares but for whatever reason I wanted the Kleenex brand because it is softer on my nose or I worked for Kimberly Clark or I hate lotion on my tissues when blowing my nose. It is a silly example but does illustrate the issues of our whatever notion define things however who cares doesn't matter.

I can understand what you are trying to communicate and the way you are doing it is also not a sign of high intelligence if we are going that route. It is a good sign we have allowed the corporate entities to so pollute our brains that we think in brands not the actual item and I guess they control the country so why not give them some brain cells as well it is not like we are using them, right?!