Camilo

My corollary to this apt motto: never argue with anyone or on any topic for more than two (preferably one) post. Anything beyond that makes me look like an immature, insecure loser with no pride or common sense. Make your point once (maybe twice) and move on. Feel sorry for those who argue back and forth endlessly. They have no life and find self worth by being "right" on the internet. I don't always adhere to this, but I try.

big john

Do tell.

Rolla

Undoubtedly, but that need is hardly limited to disc brakes.

tomato coupe

It's not really a question of whether anyone changes their mind, it's whether one side of the debate accepts the reality that disc brakes are taking over the world of cycling. Some people don't seem to be able to take that step, and spend a lot of time shouting at the wind.

Eric F 

I had a preconceived notion that hybrids were mediocre bikes for mediocre riders. I still think that makes up a high percentage of the buyers of that style of bike, but I learned that there are subsets of that bike style that are quite high-end, and do a great job serving some very serious cyclists in the way they prefer to ride.

PeteHski

It's amazing that the entire industry didn't consult your knowledge before moving forward. Let me guess. Disc brakes are just a marketing scam to sell new bikes? Come on you may as well assert that too for a full house brake bingo.

elcruxio

I do believe you can ride your local trails with the bikes you own. I mean technically you can ride double black diamond DH trails with a gravel bike, but just really really slowly.

Now I don't know your speeds and it doesn't really matter. Speed is rider dependent more than gear. But I have personally noticed that even with a fatbike (which is my sole mountain bike) modern tech makes it easier to go faster. Modern geometry is far more forgiving than something with short wheelbase and steep headtube angle. Longer travel too. 700+mm bars definitely (I think I have 750mm...). And hydraulic brakes, which make actuation quicker and stronger so you can scrub speed in shorter intervals, ie. Between rocks or ice patches or other treacherous surfaces which'll launch the front or rear tire as soon as you try to brake on them.

Example time. It takes time to use force. I can wave a drumstick back and forth pretty quickly but waving a lead pipe is much slower. Same thing with brakes really. If it takes more force to actuate the brake, the actuation pulsing speed one can do is going to be slower than with a more powerful brake.

I've never been faster than with my current brake setup which is more powerful than most cyclists will ever experience. The Shigura setup with 203mm rotors I'm sporting is more powerful than trickstuff maxima. And it's still not on/off but rather more controllable than any brake I've used so far. The speed you can go from nothing to everything and then immediately to anything in between is uncanny. Like though really.


Technically you're able to use the old rim brake bikes as long as the frames last. Rim brakes aren't disappearing any time soon. Ancient bike tech is still being made and sold (rod brakes for example). So the forcing is being done only if you want a new mountain bike with rim brakes, but even then you can go custom and request rim brakes.

I wouldn't go back to rim brakes but I also won't push my wife to replace her road bike just because it has rim brakes. It's a fantastic bike which isn't being made anymore so one might say that if that frame ever breaks, she's being forced to get something else than an bianchi impulso.

Ehh. Only if you go ride mountains with carbon rims in heavy rain.


i mean, the whole premise was idiotic to begin with. Who swaps out a bike they like just to get better brakes? If you like it, there's probably no issue. I swapped mine because I didn't like the bike. But that's a different story entirely.

Atlas Shrugged

Something just isn't adding up here?

pdlamb

Good idea in general, but are you willing to make exceptions for real discussions? (Like this one, for instance?)

mstateglfr 

- A rim brake frame can be lighter than a disc brake frame, agreed. 10oz or less in the end. If you are an elite performer, that could definitely make a difference. If you arent, then you are using it as a weak justification.
- Rim brake wheels are not necessarily lighter than disc brake wheels. Rim brake wheels can be lighter, but that doesnt mean they all are lighter. Very few people riding have wheels that weigh less than 1500g so this argument is quite worthless for most people. Disc brake wheels can weigh under 1300g too, so at that point, is this really an argument to make? What are your rim brake wheels and what do they weigh? Again, rim can be lighter, but its not like everyone on rim brakes is riding on wheels that are lighter than disc brake wheels. Stock rim brake wheels on Ultegra level bikes or lower just a few years ago were commonly 1750g to 2050g as a set.
- Rim brake forks can be more compliant. If they have to pass that testing, they will be bulked up well past what most anyone needs, just like disc brake forks. A handmade steel rim brake fork can be very compliant, I do agree with that. .6% of people ride such a fork.
- Rim brake wheels can be more aero. That doesnt mean they all are more aero. There are a ton of disc brake wheels that are clearly more aero than the wheels on any of my rim brake road bikes. Once again you put forth a claim that could be true, but also could be incorrect.
- Rim brakes dont slice you or friends in a crash. Disc brakes also dont slice you of friends in a crash. Lets call this a tie, mkay?
- Rim brakes are cheaper and easier to work on, that is almost universally correct so I will award you this claim as one to continue using. Congrats, you finally got another one.

- A disc wheel up front is perhaps weaker in theory compared to a rim brake wheel due to spoke imbalance. Add 4 spokes and call it good. Thats what November suggests, and I have read similar from many others. Seriously, this is all thats needed and the benefits are wider rims for more comfortable tires, deeper rims for more aero gains, and rims that dont wear out or delaminate from use.
- A rear disc wheel is 142mm vs 130mm for a rim brake wheel. Once the thruaxle is accounted for, a disc wheel is set up as 135mm. The wheel can therefore be plenty strong, contrary to your claim.
- Wider stays dont mean heel strike is an issue. I have size 14 shoes and dont have heel strike. Drop this claim.
- My gravel bike has 43mm tires, it can fit 50mm tires, and I use a road crank and subcompact rings with 147mm Q factor. Drop your claim of needing a wider Q factor. Yes GRX has a wider Q factor, but that isnt needed. Also, wider stay spacing is more for wider tires than disc brakes. Same with a wider Q crank design- you will notice thats associated to a gravel groupset.
- Discs dont tend to eject front wheels. Good lord, settle down with the over the top claims. My kids have MTBs with QR disc forks and there is no ejecting wheel fear. The dropouts are designed differently to account for this and its a non-issue. Drop this claim.
- How many people forget thru-axles at the trailhead? And why are they forgetting thru-axles at the trailhead?
- Thru-axles are not load bearing, correct. They are a piece of metal which GOES THRU THE AXLE and retains the wheel. Who claims they are load bearing? They are no more load bearing than a QR skewer.
- Thru-axles arent just some lawyer creation- they are a better design for centering the rotor each time. You just complained about QR disc design and now you complain about the design that addresses QR discs?



You did manage to make 2 good points in all that.
And as a reminder, my main road bike, backup road bike, backup to the backup road bike, commuter bike and single speed bike are all rim brake. I love rim brakes.

mstateglfr 

Is TA not yet ubiquitous within whatever range of bikes you ride? It seems like they are most anything over $1500(so above Sora) and many bikes with Sora even have TA. If you are buying a $500 bike with discs, thats probably a different story, but is that what you are looking at?

PeteHski

I guess if he's about to drop $15k on a new road bike with rim brakes then he needs as much self-justification as humanly possible.

Koyote

Even when you take it grossly out of context like this, I wasn’t actually stating that disc brakes separate anyone from death. But I do think that some riders, who spend most of their miles on relatively tame terrain, may not understand that others have the need for more stopping power – – stopping power which works in wet and muddy conditions, which can be applied with only light pressure on the levers, etc.

In other words, this thread is full of the sorts of judgments that this forum is known for: posters telling others, “I don’t need that, so you’re a fool for embracing it.“

Squeeze

It must be winter when threads like this at the top of the General section.

tomato coupe

It's only at the top because someone deleted the Dubai hooker threads.

Eric F 

I'm holding out for Abu Dabi hookers. Totally different than Dubai hookers.

big john

You know the difference between Dubai and Abu Dabi? The people in Dubai don't like the Flintstones,, but the people in Abu Dabi do.

tomato coupe

That's worth a triple groan.

Eric F 

I would bet that most of my kids' generation would not get this joke. Sad.

big john

I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your server.

phughes

Don't forget they are being called old and fossils too. Some people just cannot believe that someone may like a particular bike. The brakes are secondary. Does it stop? Yes. Okay then.

phughes

Nah, the same person, using a different name, made the same type of threads all summer with the same result. It's tiresome.

mstateglfr 

I mentioned The Flintstones a few weeks ago to a team of 15yo girls and 2 new what I was talking about. Sadly, one who didnt was my kid...and I have told her about The Flintstones!
Ha, that messed with me in multiple ways.

badger1

How's the veal?

cyccommute 

Nothing out of context. You said that people broke their necks at gravel events and that brakes are important. I’m not sure how that works since most of the gravel bikes I’ve ever seen are disc equipped but…. Of course some of us have spent a lifetime riding in “wet and muddy conditions” on terrain that is anything but tame and, yet, somehow we survived cantilevers! Oh, the horror!

There isn’t a good brake out there…cantilever, dual pivot, linear, or disc…that requires more than “light pressure” to make them stop. Even loaded with my large self and enough touring equipment to live on the road for weeks at a time, my cantilevers don’t require massive amounts of pull to stop the bike. I brake from the hoods 99% of the time, even on stupidly fast downhills. Mountain bikes moved away from 4 finger levers even when cantilevers were the only brake in town.

Yes, I agree but not for the reasons you think. There are far more disc fans telling rim brake users that they are old, fools, stupid, going to die, etc. (pick as many as you like) than there are rim brake fans telling disc brake users the same thing. I personally use both and don’t see any difference between the two. That’s road riding, gravel riding, touring, mountain biking, and mountain bike touring. Way back in post 86 I showed my mountain bike with disc and linear. Here’s what I do with it. This is Schofield Pass in central Colorado. It’s one of the toughest passes I’ve ever done…and I’ve ridden a lot of passes here in my state.



The brakes worked fine…perhaps too well. This is the aftermath of falling on a roughly 25% grade.



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