Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

actual cost to build a $14,000 bike

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

actual cost to build a $14,000 bike

Old 01-22-23, 11:36 AM
  #226  
Atlas Shrugged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,065
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 729 Post(s)
Liked 846 Times in 415 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I feel sorry for you, so confused by the things you read.

I imagine the problem with nylon is the same problem with kevlar - too flexible. Kevlar is incredibly strong, but not stiff. So we don't use it alone for structural composites. Both are used to make ballistic cloth that is flexible enough to absorb impacts without tearing. Something that carbon or fiberglass are too rigid to do.

Here's a hard wood frame from Renovo (ash and gum cherry). They weigh around 5 pounds and have nice ride characteristics. Would you say it is not made of wood?



Here's an oak one (I'm told you can't make a bike from oak):



As you know, tubular rims used to be made of wood. You can buy new ones from Wheel Fanatyk. They weigh 430 grams each.




I'm excited to see how you put a spin on this information.
Just when I thought this thread canít get anymore ridiculous! Thank you.
Atlas Shrugged is offline  
Likes For Atlas Shrugged:
Old 01-22-23, 12:14 PM
  #227  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,648
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2906 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 279 Posts
Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
You're going to have to be a bit more specific in your posts. I had strength to weight in mind, not the weight of frames.

This is all so confusing. You've started probably a dozen topics in this thread alone, in all of which you must have the last word be it wood construction or airplane design. And when you're wrong you shift the goalposts.

Anyways, like I mentioned earlier, aluminum nor pine cannot beat steel in strength to weight. But if we're discussing extra light bike frames, aluminum has some other ways to bypass pure strength to weight. In the end however even aluminum can't beat carbon fiber. However the carbon frame needs to be laid out properly so it gets the same stiffness as an aluminum frame of the same weight.
The weight of frames is the point of discussing strength to weight ratios on a bicycle forum. I haven't started a bunch of topics as much as I have tried to illustrate the same principles over and over from different examples to try and clarify what is going on. You're the one that brought welding formats into the discussion, which truly is off topic.

Specific to your claims, 7075 aluminum has a ratio of ultimate tensile strength to density of 188.
Pine, oriented with the grain, has ratio of 173
4130 steel has a ratio of 71
853/OX/S3 air hardening steel is 173
953 maraging steel is 256
3/2.5 Ti is 138
6/4 Ti is 264 (just edging out 953)
Carbon fiber epoxy composite 1200 to 2500
Pure carbon fiber 3200 for comparison (unusable)

All of these materials are appropriate for bicycles because they also have a relatively high ratio of flexibility (modulus) to weight, while many plastics do not. Which is why no one makes an aramid composite bike. It would be an unbreakable noodle. Or like riding a bike machined out of nylon.

So you can see from this 953 is the second strongest bike metal in use, which is why the lightest metal frames are 6/4. Which is unsurprising given the strength to weight ratio.

What is surprising is that bike grade steel, no matter how strong, runs into a limit in weight. 953 frames can hover just above 1000 grams, but so do weaker S3 framesets. The problem with both is that the steel has to be made so thin that it becomes fragile, and material has to be added for welding (butts). In contrast, materials with lower specific strength and lower densities - like 3/2.5 or aluminum alloy - can hang with the most advanced steels in weight because their more voluminous structure provides more wall thickness for chip protection and welding. That's why a butted 3/2.5 Merlin or Cannondale will be about the same weight as a 953 frame, and a 6/4 frame can be 25% lighter than either.

Wood is tremendously strong (which is why pines get to 268 feet, redwoods over 300), but the problem with wood for bike applications is that the very low density means the the compressive strength per square inch is pretty low. In other words, you can't thread or press a bearing into wood. So while you can make a frame of comparable weight to 4130 out of ash or hickory, you have to glue in higher density metals to allow you to clamp a seatpost, press in a bearing or thread a BB. Even though it has a specific strength up there with S3 steel.

Balsa wood has the same problem, but is even fluffier and soft. It is used in the core of wind turbine blades because it is good for a high volume application where it is surrounded by higher density material. But it is also very strong - stronger heat treated steel by weight. Often used with carbon fiber because they compliment each other.

Than we have carbon fiber composite - carbon fibers arranged like wood to have strength and stiffness in some directions, bonded together with an epoxy. The epoxy increases the density and lowers the tensile strength, but is necessary to give shape. You still don't want to thread carbon fiber, but it is hard enough to have BB cups pressed directly into it (at least most of the time). But it's overall strength to weight is close to 8 times that of 6/4 Ti, so why isn't it at least half as light as any metal frame? It has both the wood problem and the steel problem - it isn't great for attachment points, so those areas have to be reinforced. And it isn't very strong in thin sections, so it is difficult to get the tubes as thin as their structural strength would allow without them caving in at the first stone chip.


Ultimately, the need to attach stuff to a bike frame means that low density metal alloys - Ti, magnesium, aluminum - are the most efficient frame materials. They are coming closest to their maximum useful strength to weight ratios as finished products than either 953 or carbon fiber. But, the Aethos demonstrates that there is still much to be done with the way CF frames are designed to distribute forces and how they are assembled to avoid wasteful joint overlaps. That's why I predict we'll see a 400 gram CF frameset in the not-so-distant future. But I don't think we'll be able to go a lot lighter without bringing in another material to increase notch strength.


Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
I agree it's a stupid debate. CF is king when it comes to stiffness/weight ratio and hence no surprise that it dominates in performance bike frame construction. It has the added benefit of being easy to shape and control stiffness in targeted areas. It's a no-brainer choice unless you are on a strict budget or nostalgic.
So far there hasn't been a debate. There has just been a discussion where everyone tries to get on the same page with the terms being used and their application.
Kontact is offline  
Likes For Kontact:
Old 01-22-23, 12:51 PM
  #228  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,648
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2906 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 279 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
1. You've now cited reasons why people don't make bike frames out of 3 specific materials (balsa, nylon, and kevlar), despite them having adequate specific strength, confirming my assertion that specific strength does not determine if a material is suitable for use as a bike frame.

2. Your tangents about the Spruce Goose and Japanese Zeros are irrelevant and, in the case of the Zero, pure nonsense:



3. Renovos are beautiful bikes, but they are essentially functional art. (Though, they're certainly more functional than other functional art bikes such as cardboard and plastic bikes.) The fact remains, however, that oak and other woods are not used in the mainstream production of bicycles because, despite their acceptable specific strength, they have other properties that make them less desirable than steel, aluminium, or carbon fiber for the application.
My bad. Change all my comments to the de Haviland Mosquito, which was almost all wood, mainly birch and balsa, and one of the fastest and most capable planes of WWII.
Kontact is offline  
Old 01-22-23, 01:04 PM
  #229  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,542

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2956 Post(s)
Liked 5,154 Times in 2,088 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
My bad. Change all my comments to the de Haviland Mosquito, which was almost all wood, mainly birch and balsa, and one of the fastest and most capable planes of WWII.
Still, whatís your point? The fact that wood was used in an 80 year old airplane in wartime footing doesnít mean itís a good material for airplanes or bikes today.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 01-22-23, 01:06 PM
  #230  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 14,485

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7088 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,372 Posts
Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
here is the simplest answer to the question - their average bike costs approximately 80% of what they sell it to the dealer to. most bike companies are not publicly traded so their gross and operating income are not public, but at least one is. giant had an operating income of $312M on revenue of $2930M. thatís just a bit over 10%. so if they sell a $14k bike to a dealer for $10k, it costs them just a bit under $9k to produce that bike. this includes all their costs, to design it, buy the components, assemble the components, rent the land the factory and offices sit on, ship it, etc. not including all those parts of the cost would be idiotic, since you canít build something without designing it and paying the people who build it and so on. unless youíre advocating stolen IP and slave labor and all that.

iíd be willing to stipulate that a) big bike has slightly higher profit margins than giant and b) high end bikes have slightly higher margins than low end ones, which might being the manufacturers total cost to produce and deliver a 14k bicycle to around 7-8k.
Actually, gross profit is unrelated to the cost or sale price (MSRP, we all know what that is worth)

Companies hide income, defer payments and reporting, pay off debt, loan cash or debt to other divisions of the same corporation ....

Generally markup on a general product is generally 300%. but really cheap stuff might have very low profit margin (no one gets rich selling bottles or bottle cages) and high-end stuff has a profit margin based on the perception of luxury .... an $18K bike doesn't seem like a "luxury" to a lot of serious riders, so i doubt the profit margin is that high .....

Generally mid-range, high-volume items get a biggish markup because you know, demand drives price .... You do know that, right?

When something is perceives as a "status" luxury item, the profit margin skyrockets because people want to be able to brag about how rich they are. Most of the people I know or have met who own really pricey bikes are Not rich, just really into the latest, greatest .... a lot of them race, and some as pros, but in the kinds of races where the prize pool for the Pro 1-2-3 race might be $500 for the whole podium. Some might be getting their bikes subsidized, but most are on smaller teams and are responsible for their own gear.

Whatever. The people who think expensive bikes are too expensive are not going to care about the real figures, except to use them as ammunition to throw at others. The people who figure it is just business, might be mildly interested. The people who really don't care are reading another thread ... or out riding their bikes.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 01-22-23, 01:39 PM
  #231  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,648
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2906 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 279 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Still, what’s your point? The fact that wood was used in an 80 year old airplane in wartime footing doesn’t mean it’s a good material for airplanes or bikes today.
Since aluminum was also used in 80 year old warplanes, does that mean it isn't good for bikes?

But my point was about understanding material strengths, and that they frequently don't work like we think they work. Understanding the materials leads to understanding the limitations. Wood is an excellent way to understand some of the issues with carbon fiber, since they are both low density, oriented fiber materials.
Kontact is offline  
Old 01-22-23, 01:57 PM
  #232  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,542

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2956 Post(s)
Liked 5,154 Times in 2,088 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Since aluminum was also used in 80 year old warplanes, does that mean it isn't good for bikes?
.
Your logic is bad — you’re trying to set up a false equivalency.

The statement 'A does not imply B' is not the same as 'A implies NOT B'.

Last edited by tomato coupe; 01-22-23 at 03:50 PM. Reason: Added quotes
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 01-22-23, 02:24 PM
  #233  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 4,965
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2497 Post(s)
Liked 2,688 Times in 1,693 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post

But, the Aethos demonstrates that there is still much to be done with the way CF frames are designed to distribute forces and how they are assembled to avoid wasteful joint overlaps. That's why I predict we'll see a 400 gram CF frameset in the not-so-distant future. But I don't think we'll be able to go a lot lighter without bringing in another material to increase notch strength.

One of the main reasons why the Aethos is so light is because they sacrificed aero efficiency for structural efficiency in their choice of tube profiles. Iím not sure there is much incentive to go even lighter unless they could maintain their target stiffness and durability. It may well prove to be too much compromise for relatively little overall weight saving.

A reduction in the UCI limit would probably provide more incentive for the industry to focus on lighter frames. The Aethos is a bit of a one-off experiment in optimising weight over aero in a high-end modern bike. It makes some sense for a dedicated climbing bike outside of UCI rules, but it is basically pointless otherwise. Itís main selling point is the ďtraditionalĒ aesthetics for those who donít value the aero gains.
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 01-22-23, 02:56 PM
  #234  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,648
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2906 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 279 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Your logic is bad ó youíre trying to set up a false equivalency.

The statement A does not imply B is not the same as A implies NOT B.
I know that. I was just trying to express my frustration dealing with someone who acts like they can't understand the gist of anything. Totally pedantic.

"To date."
Kontact is offline  
Old 01-22-23, 03:00 PM
  #235  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,542

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2956 Post(s)
Liked 5,154 Times in 2,088 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I know that. I was just trying to express my frustration dealing with someone who acts like they can't understand the gist of anything. Totally pedantic.

"To date."
It seems to me you're reacting negatively to being told you're in error, by intentionally making another error. Not a good long term solution ...
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 01-22-23, 03:03 PM
  #236  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,648
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2906 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 279 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
One of the main reasons why the Aethos is so light is because they sacrificed aero efficiency for structural efficiency in their choice of tube profiles. Iím not sure there is much incentive to go even lighter unless they could maintain their target stiffness and durability. It may well prove to be too much compromise for relatively little overall weight saving.

A reduction in the UCI limit would probably provide more incentive for the industry to focus on lighter frames. The Aethos is a bit of a one-off experiment in optimising weight over aero in a high-end modern bike. It makes some sense for a dedicated climbing bike outside of UCI rules, but it is basically pointless otherwise. Itís main selling point is the ďtraditionalĒ aesthetics for those who donít value the aero gains.
There will always be people, amateur racers or not, that enjoy having the lightest possible bike. That's the target market for the Aethos and similar. Other light bikes like the Factor O2 aren't aero or traditional looking.
Kontact is offline  
Old 01-22-23, 03:25 PM
  #237  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,648
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2906 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 279 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
It seems to me you're reacting negatively to being told you're in error, by intentionally making another error. Not a good long term solution ...
I'm reacting negatively to a troll that makes an issue of when (not if) the Spruce Goose is was the largest airplane, in a thread about bikes, on a bike forum. And I'm reacting negatively to it because it was a) unnecessary and b) designed to to insult and belittle.

You are not a nice person. You're interactions with me have nothing to do with your enjoyment of our shared hobby, but a desire on your part to put someone down. It's gross. And it won't give you what you desire.
Kontact is offline  
Likes For Kontact:
Old 01-22-23, 03:49 PM
  #238  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,542

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2956 Post(s)
Liked 5,154 Times in 2,088 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I'm reacting negatively to a troll that makes an issue of when (not if) the Spruce Goose is was the largest airplane, in a thread about bikes, on a bike forum. And I'm reacting negatively to it because it was a) unnecessary and b) designed to to insult and belittle.
You've played this card before. I asked a direct, relevant question after you took us down the Spruce Goose rabbit hole. Don't introduce non-bike topics to make your case, and then complain when someone comments on the fact that your information is false.

Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Ever heard of the Spruce Goose? Think about why it isn't the Steel Goose.
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
How does the Spruce Goose and Japanese Zero demonstrate anything about specific strength?
Originally Posted by Kontact
The winga of the Japanese Zero fighter were wood [FALSE]... The Zero was an excellent fighter, the Goose the largest plane to date.[FALSE]
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 01-22-23, 03:56 PM
  #239  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,114

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3567 Post(s)
Liked 2,040 Times in 1,039 Posts
Next thread please: The actual cost to make a $ 300 gravel specific jersey.
wolfchild is offline  
Likes For wolfchild:
Old 01-22-23, 04:31 PM
  #240  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,835

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7816 Post(s)
Liked 8,347 Times in 4,666 Posts
worst
---+++++
thread
------+++++
ever
livedarklions is offline  
Old 01-22-23, 04:36 PM
  #241  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,542

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2956 Post(s)
Liked 5,154 Times in 2,088 Posts
^^^^ Should have been closed on day one ...
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 01-25-23, 10:06 AM
  #242  
rydabent
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,805

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3234 Post(s)
Liked 997 Times in 598 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
^^^^ Should have been closed on day one ...
Since when are you the dictator of what should be posted?
This is a legitimate question that a lot of people kind of want to know.
rydabent is offline  
Old 01-25-23, 10:18 AM
  #243  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,835

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7816 Post(s)
Liked 8,347 Times in 4,666 Posts
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Since when are you the dictator of what should be posted?
This is a legitimate question that a lot of people kind of want to know.
Transparently pointless response to a three day old post in a desperate attempt to bump an exhausted thread. Where did tomato coupe claim to be dictator? Since when are you the dictator of when people can post their opinion that a thread is crappy crap crap?

And there was already a thread on the EXACT SAME TOPIC open at the time you started this one. You even stole the $14,000 figure.

But since you bring it up, what was your purpose in starting this thread? Why is this information important? Are you learning anything from the responses? What? You want to keep the thread going? Say something worth discussing.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 01-25-23, 01:50 PM
  #244  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 13,666

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7716 Post(s)
Liked 8,336 Times in 4,253 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
worst
---+++++
thread
------+++++
ever
Are you new here?
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 01-25-23, 02:08 PM
  #245  
Germany_chris
Iím a little Surly
 
Germany_chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Germany
Posts: 2,196

Bikes: Two Cross Checks and a Karate Monkey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Liked 1,088 Times in 557 Posts
Here's the thing, I save for retirement, I save for emergencies, I keep money set aside for a couple of vacations every year, and I take my wife out whenever she wants. I have bikes that are rim brake, I have bikes that are disc, I've over spent on all of them based on the quality of the frame but I love them all. I'll leave Europe in 2024 and before I leave I'll buy either a Singer or Berthoud, and I'm sure I'll pay more for them than my other steel bikes...I grew up with parents that looked for "bang for the buck" with everything I hold onto things long enough to not care. My bikes live in the living room and computer room because so I can spend hours looking at them, they stimulate my creative juices and calm me at the same time.
Germany_chris is offline  
Likes For Germany_chris:
Old 01-25-23, 02:54 PM
  #246  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,835

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7816 Post(s)
Liked 8,347 Times in 4,666 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Are you new here?

Gotta say, getting nasty over wooden airplanes of WWII strikes me as a new low for BF.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 01-25-23, 04:11 PM
  #247  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,648
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2906 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 279 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Gotta say, getting nasty over wooden airplanes of WWII strikes me as a new low for BF.
Getting nasty seems to be the way you and you buddies prefer the forum.
Kontact is offline  
Old 01-25-23, 04:16 PM
  #248  
Trakhak
Senior Member
 
Trakhak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 3,842
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1544 Post(s)
Liked 1,569 Times in 915 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Getting nasty seems to be the way you and you buddies prefer the forum.
"Fun, nasty fun!"

Trakhak is offline  
Old 01-25-23, 04:17 PM
  #249  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 4,507

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2758 Post(s)
Liked 4,301 Times in 2,037 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Getting nasty seems to be the way you and you buddies prefer the forum.
Having a low tolerance for false information and unjustified opinions is not the same thing, but I can see how it might seem that way to those with an agenda to push.
Eric F is offline  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 01-25-23, 06:48 PM
  #250  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,835

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7816 Post(s)
Liked 8,347 Times in 4,666 Posts
Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post

David is putting on the big suit.
livedarklions is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.