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Compass tires/Rene Herse vs Panaracer

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Compass tires/Rene Herse vs Panaracer

Old 01-28-23, 07:14 PM
  #26  
Polaris OBark
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Originally Posted by Lombard
I have run both the Panaracer GK Slicks and the Rene Herse Extralights which are supposed to be ooooooh so smooth. I honestly cannot tell the difference other than the Rene Herse tires make my wallet lighter.
This is required reading (right up there with the thread about the guy setting his wheel on fire while trying to burn off his dork disk):

https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespe...e-warning.html
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Old 01-28-23, 07:34 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
This is required reading (right up there with the thread about the guy setting his wheel on fire while trying to burn off his dork disk):

https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespe...e-warning.html
To be fair, he didn't indicate what tires he was riding before he became a Rene Herse convert. They could have been garden hoses.
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Old 01-28-23, 08:45 PM
  #28  
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All tires are gardenhosen if they aren't Rene Herse.
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Old 01-29-23, 06:02 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
I used to use them in may different sizes but only in extralight casings. In my testing, if you run heavy butyl tubes, you are wasting your money. For whatever reason the extralegere versions run much better with latex tubes. I stopped running them tubeless due to sloppy fit and blowoff. I don't find them worth the money. There are faster, cheaper, more durable, and longer lasting tires for my application. So, if want to use them with latex tubes? Maybe. $90-96 per tire plus shipping is steep. The casings are so, so supple. Just don't pinch them to check tire pressure, that popping noise of ruptured threads can be unnerving.
Say more about the blowoff- that’s what’s stopping me from picking up some Bon Jon ELs
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Old 01-29-23, 06:51 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by phrantic09
Say more about the blowoff- that’s what’s stopping me from picking up some Bon Jon ELs
Don’t trip; Bon Jon ELs with Aerothan tubes are extremely sweet, like 95% as sweet as running them tubeless…if you could. I mean, you can run them tubeless, and I did, it’s just a matter of how much BS you want to put up with to do it. I had one blow off the rim while inflating it, trying to get the beads to lock.

That was the final straw for me, and I happily been running them with Aerothan TPU for +2 years now.
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Old 01-29-23, 07:39 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
I used to use them in may different sizes but only in extralight casings. In my testing, if you run heavy butyl tubes, you are wasting your money.
Hmmm. Maybe this is why I can't tell a difference between Panaracer GK Slicks and Rene Herse Extralights. I run them with standard butyl tubes.
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Old 01-29-23, 02:31 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
I have run both the Panaracer GK Slicks and the Rene Herse Extralights which are supposed to be ooooooh so smooth. I honestly cannot tell the difference other than the Rene Herse tires make my wallet lighter.
Both attempt to be "fast" tires, but using different approaches: GravelKings use a thinner tread, RHs use a lighter casing. If you need long tread life or a little better puncture resistance, the RHs have the advantage, but I've been pretty content so far with the durability (and cost) of the GravelKing type.
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Old 01-29-23, 10:27 PM
  #33  
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I've run Barlow Pass EL with and without tubes and can't tell much (if any) difference.

For the wider tires (44 mm, 48mm, 55 mm), I have never tried with tubes. I imagine I would feel more of a difference.

I think their official advice is not to run anything narrow than 35mm tubeless.

IIRC, Jan says tubeless setups with their tires are marginally slower.
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Old 01-30-23, 07:45 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
I have run both the Panaracer GK Slicks and the Rene Herse Extralights which are supposed to be ooooooh so smooth. I honestly cannot tell the difference other than the Rene Herse tires make my wallet lighter.
Well then, it's obvious Rene Herse makes you faster, because of all the weight you're carrying when you ride the Panaracer!
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Old 01-30-23, 10:46 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
Well then, it's obvious Rene Herse makes you faster, because of all the weight you're carrying when you ride the Panaracer!
Unless I leave my wallet at home.
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Old 01-30-23, 12:23 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Don’t trip; Bon Jon ELs with Aerothan tubes are extremely sweet, like 95% as sweet as running them tubeless…if you could. I mean, you can run them tubeless, and I did, it’s just a matter of how much BS you want to put up with to do it. I had one blow off the rim while inflating it, trying to get the beads to lock.

That was the final straw for me, and I happily been running them with Aerothan TPU for +2 years now.
I like the added insurance of the sealant. If my wheels weren’t hookless, I’d feel more comfortable
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Old 01-30-23, 12:39 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by phrantic09
I like the added insurance of the sealant. If my wheels weren’t hookless, I’d feel more comfortable
AFAIK, you can run tires approved for hookless with tubes on hookless rims. Though I don't know if you can inflate to higher pressures in doing so than is advised running without tubes.. I'm kinda hazy on the industry direction there.
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Old 01-30-23, 12:48 PM
  #38  
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I ran the RH Bon Jon Pass (standard casing) tires for about 7500 miles on one of my bikes. They were terrific: very smooth and supple, great grip, and very puncture resistant -- I ran them tubeless, and don't recall ever even seeing a little sealant splattered on my frame. I certainly never had to put in a tube mid-ride.

The tires also lasted a looong time. RH uses thick rubber and no puncture protection layer in those tires. I got 3300 miles on a rear and still had no cords showing through when it was replaced; the front tire went 7500 miles and still had plenty of life left.

Eventually, I had to take off one of the tires for some reason (can't recall why) and couldn't get it to seat on my rim...so I bought a couple of Gravelking Slick+ tires, which are fine. Not as supple as the RH, though.
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Old 01-31-23, 07:02 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by phrantic09
I like the added insurance of the sealant. If my wheels weren’t hookless, I’d feel more comfortable
Oh…I’ve got no idea about hookless rim compatibility of any of the Herse tires. I should have said I was referring to hooked rims. Sorry.
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Old 01-31-23, 08:30 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
The tires also lasted a looong time. RH uses thick rubber and no puncture protection layer in those tires. I got 3300 miles on a rear and still had no cords showing through when it was replaced; the front tire went 7500 miles and still had plenty of life left.
That life is pretty much typical of a good road tire. 3000 miles is about what I get out of a rear Vittoria Rubino. Front tires generally last more than 3 times longer than rears.
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Old 01-31-23, 08:34 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
That life is pretty much typical of a good road tire.
Yes, true for many road tires. But in my experience, tires with that ride quality -- smooth and supple -- don't last as long.
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Old 01-31-23, 08:57 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Yes, true for many road tires. But in my experience, tires with that ride quality -- smooth and supple -- don't last as long.
For what it's worth, I was talked into buying a set of oooooh so smooth and supple Vittoria Corsas. They cost twice as much as Vittoria Rubinos and I could not tell a difference in ride quality. I could however tell a difference in ride quality between Vittoria Rubinos and Maxxis ReFuses. The ReFuses are bombproof, but ride like a garden hose.
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Old 01-31-23, 09:01 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
For what it's worth, I was talked into buying a set of oooooh so smooth and supple Vittoria Corsas. They cost twice as much as Vittoria Rubinos and I could not tell a difference in ride quality. I could however tell a difference in ride quality between Vittoria Rubinos and Maxxis ReFuses. The ReFuses are bombproof, but ride like a garden hose.
When I was road racing (15+ years ago), I rode Gommitalia open tubular tires. (I think that brand is now defunct.) The tires were expensive, smooth, supple, and grippy...And I would get about 1500 miles out of a rear. But man, they felt great.
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Old 01-31-23, 09:21 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by chaadster
As for whether differences make Herse and Ultradynamico worth considering, well, that depends on what kind of cyclist you are. Some cats roll around on department store rubber their whole lives, blissfully ignorant of the possibilities.
Originally Posted by chaadster
Don’t trip; Bon Jon ELs with Aerothan tubes are extremely sweet, like 95% as sweet as running them tubeless…if you could. I mean, you can run them tubeless, and I did, it’s just a matter of how much BS you want to put up with to do it. I had one blow off the rim while inflating it, trying to get the beads to lock.

That was the final straw for me, and I happily been running them with Aerothan TPU for +2 years now.
Yes, the blissful ignorance that doesnt give them the chance to be infuriated over tubeless tires that weep more than a widow and wont even stay on the rim during normal inflation. Those peasants simply dont know what they are missing.

Im all for high quality tires and have various brands/models on all my bikes, but the fact that you were forced to run a tube in a tubeless tire because it wouldnt seal AND wouldnt even just stay on the rim? That shouldnt be a vote in favor or a tire.
Havent you had multiple RH tires that had literal holes in the tires too?

Pays a small fortune for tires that are advertised as tubeless yet wont hold air, have visible holes, and wont even stay on the rim...recognizes the whole process is infuriating and total BS, yet is also critical of those buying cheap tires that dont have all these issues.

There is a wide sweet spot between cheap department tires and the money you wasted on tubeless tires that hemorrhage sealant, blow off a rim, and cant even be run tubeless.
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Old 02-01-23, 10:28 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Don’t trip; Bon Jon ELs with Aerothan tubes are extremely sweet, like 95% as sweet as running them tubeless…if you could. I mean, you can run them tubeless, and I did, it’s just a matter of how much BS you want to put up with to do it. I had one blow off the rim while inflating it, trying to get the beads to lock.

That was the final straw for me, and I happily been running them with Aerothan TPU for +2 years now.
I've not tried tubeless as it seems a lot of hassle, but TPU tubes are easily as good a latex and stay inflated. Very happy with Aerothan tubes in compass/RH/Grand Bois from 26-622 to 54-559.
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Old 02-01-23, 02:50 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Fahrenheit531
I cringe and grumble every time I have to replace my Rene Herse tires.
And then I buy them.
Yes, they're that good.

(I run Stampede Pass 700x32, ultralight casing, skinwall, with tubes.)
That is one insanely fast tire.
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Old 02-01-23, 08:43 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by esasjl
I've not tried tubeless as it seems a lot of hassle, but TPU tubes are easily as good a latex and stay inflated. Very happy with Aerothan tubes in compass/RH/Grand Bois from 26-622 to 54-559.
TPU is just as fast, more durable, more puncture resistant, works at lower pressure, holds air better, is less prone to catastrophic deflation, it’s lighter, requires less raw material and is recyclable. TPU is better than latex, but it does cost more.

I think Aerothan are worth it, though, especially in the Herse extralight casing tires.

And yeah, tubeless can be a hassle, but when you’re geared up for it, and have a good tire/wheel combo, it’s sweet. I run 4 bikes tubeless right now, one TPU, and the balance butyl.
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Old 02-02-23, 03:43 AM
  #48  
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I'm fortunate in getting very few punctures (less than one a year) which reduces my rationale for tubeless. My most used setup has Humptulips Ridge with TPU tubes (Mavic D521/Shimano wheels); as grippy as slicks (RTPs) on tarmac and brilliant on unsealed roads and bridleways.
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Old 02-02-23, 06:54 AM
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RH had issues with at least one of their newly tubeless models a few years ago. That made me hold off of going tubeless with them until about 2 years ago. IIRC, that’s been addressed. I and a friend of mine have set them up tubeless since, and they set up relatively easily.

Mine (Barlow Pass EL) did start weeping a lot after about a year. Having run tubeless for a long time on MTBs, I have had a lot of tires weep, and it is generally not a big deal, but these weeped too much. I use mostly Stans regular, I’ve read other sealants are more highly recommended.

Some manufacturing problems are pretty easily solved, like tubeless setup and fit. I see no reason to believe this issue has not been resolved. There is nothing about an EL casing tire that would be more prone to bead related issues.

OTOH, I think the weeping issue is going to be a tough nut to crack with the EL sidewalls.

FWIW, there are also reports of Panaracer Gravel Kings blowing off rims. I was once with a friend when his Maxxis tire blow off a rim when inflating at the trailhead. Over the past 25 years, I have had defective or highly problematic tires from Maxxis, Schwalbe, Kenda, Michelin, and Continental. It is important to understand the difference between isolated production issues and underlying design limitations or flaws.

Last edited by Kapusta; 02-02-23 at 07:19 AM.
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