bblair

I really didn't want to do this. My LBS has free labor for life if you bought the bike there. But they just can't get parts! I have waited about 5 weeks and still nothing.

So today, I stopped in and asked if I could pay labor to install parts if I can provide them. 3 or 4 online sources, from reputable places, have the part available and can be here in a few days. In fact, right now there is an ad above this message advertising the exact part I need! They said sure, other folks do that too.

Why can shops not get parts, but I can? Note, Amazon was just one source, and I did not choose that one.

Jeff Neese

It seems like at most bike shops, if QBP doesn't sell it, they can't get it. They aren't going to spend time searching the web for your part, and then buy it from whichever vendor happens to have it, and then be able to charge you an appropriate markup to make it worth their time.

unterhausen

I feel like, "why can I buy parts at retail when my lbs can't get them at wholesale" is very close to a self-answering question. They can also buy parts at retail, but that doesn't exactly pay the rent, does it?

I saw the owner of my LBS buying parts from Amazon. That guarantees they lose money on those parts. I know over the last couple of years, they have spent an inordinate amount of time trying to find parts and it's not always possible. They were trading parts with people. There has been some indication that big mail order businesses were getting parts through normal channels while small shops couldn't. It has been a difficult time for most bike shops.

Juan Foote

I work in the fire safety industry. We have had considerable issues getting many parts required for keeping systems running properly from our standard supply houses. We have had to resort to similar, such as buying from Amazon (which is often far costlier to us and the customer) and in some cases using contacts on the West Coast to get parts before they enter the greater supply chain. There are many industries suffering the same conditions.

If the cost it worthwhile to you and will get you back on the road it may be a good idea, however I would inquire as to what this will do in regard to your "free labor" agreement.

bargainguy

Right now, there's a strange dynamic playing out. An oversupply of bikes in the post-COVID era as manufacturers overshot their estimates, and an undersupply of parts, which has not shown much sign of recovery during that same period.

Combine that with rampant inflation, and nobody has much discretionary income anymore. Suddenly parts are now more valuable than complete bikes as people scale back.

It's no wonder you can get parts faster than your LBS. They are in the same fight as you, but typically they had a leg up with distributors in that chain. Not anymore.

Troul 

Sometimes a business has a contractual agreement with a vendor. If the language in it missed addressing a supplier issue clause, then the business pretty much has to determine if the risk in breaching the contract is worth it.

ZHVelo

Seems just outright dumb. It takes what 5-10 minutes to order something online. Charge for that time and for the part and the labour and you get more than losing that customer because you can't get the part.

cxwrench

Here's how it works for us. Bike shops normally order parts from one of a small-ish group of distributors. Let's say you're looking for a shimano derailleur. There is only one distributor that would normally carry most Shimano stuff, and a couple more that don't usually stock as much. And of course direct from Shimano might be an option. That's it. Normally I'd only check QBP and Shimano if I was looking for a Shimano part. The customer has tons of online options. If I can't get the part I'll ask the customer to order it online and bring it in or even have it shipped to us, then we'll install. I'll provide him with all the info he needs to find it. I'll not order it myself as there is no margin and most customers have no interest in paying extra if they can it themselves for msrp. We've been doing this for the last couple of years and it works fine. We haven't lost any customers at all.

Rolla

Some online retailers order parts in much greater quantities than local shops (or even QBP), so manufacturers tend to give those orders priority.

If QBP doesn't have stock, setting up an account with another parts distributor just to order one or two occasional items is a hassle, and those distributors often enforce minimums that can all but eliminate the profit margin.

unterhausen

OP is in a bit of a unique situation in that the bike shop made a bad bargain about labor costs. Most shops make most of their profits off of repairs. Doing it for free turns you into a charity. I can see why they wouldn't want to order parts online at retail, even if the OP agreed to pay labor. That could easily turning into a no-win situation for the shop. Depending on how many customers they made this deal with, I can foresee that their future isn't particularly secure.
It's not like running a bike shop with more mainstream business practices is a lucrative business. If you start giving away margin on parts, it just makes it worse. But I think most shops are probably ordering parts online at retail just to keep customers happy.

Most shops sold through their inventory in the first few months of the pandemic, and then business just dried up because there was nothing to sell. They were busy with repairs, but getting parts was a huge struggle. Bike companies have been very harsh with their dealers, and terms have been awful. Now shops are being forced to buy bikes they probably don't want. Increases in bike costs didn't really flow through to the shops. It's no wonder so many shops are folding. It's not worth it for people who can work a regular job for more money and not face a stream of ungrateful customers.

The thing about QPB is that there are a lot of shops out there that buy parts as soon as they are available. A lot of smaller mail order companies are also ordering through QPB. QPB isn't doing that well either, they just laid off a significant number of employees.

Juan Foote

Both of these are significant (possible) factors in this situation.
The shop that I worked for a while started out as a small independent shop and sold pretty much whatever they wanted. Almost 100% of the accessories in store came from one supplier out of a big catalog. As business grew the shop started carrying Specialized, which in retrospect was the beginning of the end for the shop. They made demands regarding what could and could not be sold in the store and where those parts could come from. As the shop continued to grow and gather reputation the owner opted that he wanted to be among the highest end of Spec "Elite" dealers. That agreement basically was, they wouldn't allow us to have the highest end MTB and Road bikes outside an agreement where the shop was given an allotment of OTHER bikes we had to sell as well, popular or not. In addition to this aspect pricing wasn't set by the shop, but by Spec. In the end it turned out that all the stuff people wanted sold. The stuff we couldn't sell ended up having to be paid for complete to sit on the floor while at the same time taking on another allotment where there was very little by way of independent choice as to the WHAT of it by the owner. This obviously led to an available capital issue and the owner opted to close the doors rather than go further in debt just to be in business with Spec. For the community, it was a pretty hard hit because the only shops it left in the area are a couple of Trek stores which are under a similar agreement. If it isn't Trek or the Bontrager house brand, you can't get it there. For me, finding a "full range" merch bike shop is nearly impossible and certainly a long drive. I cannot imagine what folks away from large metro are doing.

70sSanO

To cut to the chase. A shop cannot survive giving labor away. Regardless of the good, or not so good intentions, of free lifetime labor, it is not really going to happen. It seems to be an ill conceived bet that most customers would not return for labor or will move on from the bike.

If you like the shop and think they do good work, buy the part and pay for labor and be done with it. Limit your “free” work to quick simple tasks that can be done with the paid labor.

Personally, I’m not sure I’d want free labor if it meant waiting to be last in line and then hurrying through the repair.

John

livedarklions

OP did pay for the labor since he brought the part in. I had to laugh at the headline as he definitely wasn't being "that guy.". He's actually taking the loss as now he's paying for the parts and the labor. I would think the lbs would be happy that he wasn't insisting on the free labor.

I've been under the impression for a while before the pandemic that the practice of making money on the margin on the parts was pretty much doomed due to the online competition. Was I wrong about that? Is this a long-term trend that just became really obvious in the face of supply chain problems, or are things going back to what they were before there were shortages?

unterhausen

Bike shops have normal retail margins on parts, unless they get squeezed by suppliers having low margins built into the retail prices. Examples of that are electronics and bicycles. Online places also have normal retail margins. If you see something a lot cheaper online, then they got it for cheaper than your bike shop could. Nobody survives in retail long with lower than normal markups.

Dan Burkhart 

Is QPB the French arm of QBP?

cxwrench

You are definitely correct in assuming this. It's actually gotten a little better as some brands have put some restrictions in place to help retailers from getting killed by online sellers.

bblair

I was under the impression that shops make very like profit on parts, but ok on the labor. So for me to bring in the piece, but pay full price for the labor should be more profitable for the LBS.

But I stopped in 3 times to inquire and finally cleared it with them before I ordered online. Free labor on parts would be ok for a limited time, but I never expected forever. I didn't even ask their rate; just charge me what you want and of course I will be back for future items as well.

As I type, I see my needed part at 28%off from an online vendor.

livedarklions

[QUOTE=bblair;22687905]What's funny to me was that I think you were really being a good and understanding guy in this, but you called yourself "that guy ". I'm pretty sure any lbs would be happy to have your version of that guy as a customer.

urbanknight

It baffles me too.

I actually spoke with a shop employee once. I had been going to that shop regularly for about a decade at the time, so I had no qualms about what I did. He told me they didn't have the cassette I wanted in stock (no surprise, it was Campagnolo) but he could order it to arrive in about 2 weeks for MSRP. I asked him if they ordered through QBC and pointed out that a major online retailer had it for far less with free shipping that would take under a week. He verified that the online price was about the same as their wholesale price, so I asked him what's stopping him from ordering from them and selling it to me for the same profit but with a shorter wait. I also asked what good this wholesaler was if they couldn't compete with a retailer for price and shipping time. In the end, I overpayed and waited too long because I like having a shop to come into for last minute things, but it baffled me how the shop was willing to ignore the problem and possible solutions, knowing full well it's the reason people skip them and go right to the internet.

mschwett 

every time i've asked my LBS if they can get something quickly, and then they can't, i ask if it's OK for me to bring it in with the bike. they always seem absolutely totally fine with that, maybe because i've bought a bunch of bikes from them or maybe because they don't make much on the parts or maybe because it's just good business.

i don't think OP is "that guy."

mstateglfr 

If the shop can buy a component from Amazon for less than they sell that component, then there is margin and profit to be made.
This is especially true when labor is then charged for installing that component.

So in one scenario a shop doesn't have the component and makes no money on it or the install.
In the other scenario a shop makes a little money on the component and makes money on the install.

I fully understand a shop needs to have X % margin to stay open, but they also need $Y revenue to stay open. The first scenario gives them $0 and 0 margin.


^ each situation is unique and many examples could be crested which nullify my comments above. But then I could also come up with an equal number of hypothetical that support my comments above.
Also, a shop could easily just say 'that will cost $50 for us to purchase right now' and buy it from an online retailer even if the component usually costs $40 from QBP. It's not like the customer knows what shops charge- there is no shop that I know of with a displayed list of costs for components. That helps the customer out and allows them to make an informed decision.

Koyote

Hell, in the middle of the pandemic parts shortage, my mechanic wanted to put a new chain on my bike,* but he didn't have one. I told him that I had a few chains hanging on my pegboard, and he asked me to bring one in so that he could install it. He was pretty happy with that.

*I am perfectly capable of installing a chain, but my mechanic has a proprietary attitude towards my bike since he built it and does the real work on it.

urbanknight

You're probably right. When I was a shop mechanic, the labor for changing a tube (5 minutes of work) was $4.00 and minimum wage (what I was paid) was something like $4.65 per HOUR. Labor for custom jobs was quoted at way more than the head mechanic made as well. Meanwhile, the manager told us the markup on new bicycles was tiny, and they paid the mechanic to build it and the salesperson to sell it.

Rolla

Agreed -- not even close. "That guy" doesn't even consider that the shop isn't making any profit from the part, and then complains about the labor charge. OP would be welcome in my shop any time.

scott967

I could see LBS set up with parts distributor is based on an invoice/30 day net basis and not too keen on having to pay Amazon vendor up front (from what I've seen a lot of bike stuff on Amazon is 3rd party). That seems like a cash flow issue.

scott s.
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