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Tubeless-OK clincher tires?

Old 12-27-22, 11:45 AM
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Tubeless-OK clincher tires?

Hi Everybody:

I'm asking about something you should officially not do: Put road clincher tires that don't claim to be tubeless onto tubeless ready rims, in goes the sealant and you ride.
The reason I ask is that 1) I'm a cheapskate and 2) hold my beer. So I'm not asking about why I should not do this thing, I've already decided to do it on a set of road wheels.
My question is, has anybody done this successfully? I'll just say as a use case: Conti 5000 or Pirelli Race Zero (not the tubeless varieties) run as a tubeless tire. Both of these fine tires feature a bead that locks into a hooked rim, and they lock very firmly into the rims I have. Which they did not do back in the day when nothing was tubeless-ready. I wouldn't be surprised if manufacturers only made a single kind of tire these days and badged them differently.
  • Does anybody have a photo *showing* eg how the bead of a Conti 5000 ($100/pair) differs from the bead of a Conti 5000 S TR ($200/pair)?
  • Does anybody who has *actually* done this have a good or a bad experience to share?
  • Does anybody know of good racing tires that are actually tubeless ready despite not being advertized as such?
The reason I'm asking such a specific question and not inviting people to respond who haven't actually done it is that the most common unhelpful responses you see in these forums is "oh no you can't do that". The second unhelpful answer is some variety of "your an idiot"(sic): I know both those things already. The third unhelpful response is "we do this on our ice racing (or whatever) bikes all the time". I'm not asking about that, I'm asking about 700cx25-28 standard racing and training tires that commonly go up to 110 psi.

A really helpful answer would be like : "I did this for a few months last year and was (happy/unhappy) with it for the following reasons".

If really no adventurous souls have tried it you'll hear back from me in a few months.
Cheers,
Jon.
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Old 12-27-22, 12:09 PM
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"I did this for a few months last year and was (happy/unhappy) with it for the following reasons".
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Old 12-27-22, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
"I did this for a few months last year and was (happy/unhappy) with it for the following reasons".
I worship at the feet of your very helpful cycling savvy. I keep wondering why every time I come back to these forums and ask for help, such geniuses as yourself always answer first. I think maybe the sport of cycling attracts people like your very estimable self, because it's less common in the other communities I'm a part of. In this forum, there appear to be people who lurk on the "posts with no replies" just so that they can provide such wisdom within minutes. Thus taking away the "unreplied" status from a thread. These people are very very helpful, and show the very best side of the sport of cycling. And their own wisdom too. So many thanks.

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Old 12-27-22, 01:12 PM
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Old 12-27-22, 01:52 PM
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If you are going to come in and say just mirror me and tell me exactly what I want to hear you might just record yourself and play it back for yourself. There is really nothing to be gained on a 25c tire that is not designed to be tubeless going tubeless. If you are going to do it then go do it. No need to have people say "you should really definitely do it and those people saying negative things are bad" you know what you want to hear and you have already heard it from yourself the only person that really matters in this case.

The only reason I run a 25c tire anymore is because the 28c tire rubs the original paint on my Phil Wood back at the rear and I don't really care for mismatched tires. However I don't ride the bike super often. On a bike I rode often 28c is the narrowest I would go and only for reasons of frame clearance again.
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Old 12-27-22, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jesnow View Post
I worship at the feet of your very helpful cycling savvy. I keep wondering why every time I come back to these forums and ask for help, such geniuses as yourself always answer first. I think maybe the sport of cycling attracts people like your very estimable self, because it's less common in the other communities I'm a part of. In this forum, there appear to be people who lurk on the "posts with no replies" just so that they can provide such wisdom within minutes. Thus taking away the "unreplied" status from a thread. These people are very very helpful, and show the very best side of the sport of cycling. And their own wisdom too. So many thanks.
Looks like someone needs a SOHT (sense of humor transplant). Or, as Sgt Hulka might have put it:



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Old 12-27-22, 03:44 PM
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tubeless specific tires have different sidewalls (stiffer) than non tubleless and end up being heavier (you can see the weight difference in the spec (gp5000 about 50 gram difference)

as in all things bike and in life you may be able to make do, but you will better results using products/models designed for what you want to do

this falls in the pennywise, pound foolish area

and OP will find that trying to dictate the discussion is futile
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Old 12-27-22, 04:07 PM
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Wear some ear protection when you go to inflate them and do it somewhere you don't mind getting sealant everywhere.
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Old 12-27-22, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jesnow View Post
I worship at the feet of your very helpful cycling savvy. I keep wondering why every time I come back to these forums and ask for help, such geniuses as yourself always answer first. I think maybe the sport of cycling attracts people like your very estimable self, because it's less common in the other communities I'm a part of. In this forum, there appear to be people who lurk on the "posts with no replies" just so that they can provide such wisdom within minutes. Thus taking away the "unreplied" status from a thread. These people are very very helpful, and show the very best side of the sport of cycling. And their own wisdom too. So many thanks.
Come on, what did you expect? You donít want to pay the perceived extra for tubeless tires. Then request approved responses only. What did you expect to learn from this? There are countless combinations of tubeless rims and non-tubeless tires, we are all sure some combinations will work and some not but without the details itís all a silly penny pinching exercise. Might want to factor in the cost of a new helmet and some dental work into the break even analysis while you are at it.
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Old 12-27-22, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Canker View Post
Wear some ear protection when you go to inflate them and do it somewhere you don't mind getting sealant everywhere.
I'm not following you. I put less pressure in tubeless tires than I do with tubed tires.
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Old 12-27-22, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I'm not following you. I put less pressure in tubeless tires than I do with tubed tires.
I think Canker's post has to do with both the tire/tim interface not being what either tubed clinchers or tubeless ones really want and that often to seat a tubeless tire one over pressures during the install, sometimes by a lot. Andy (who agrees with most here as to the "wrongness" of the OP's plan and post, for a few reasons)
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Old 12-27-22, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Canker View Post
Wear some ear protection when you go to inflate them and do it somewhere you don't mind getting sealant everywhere.
Ya I had a new wheel built and the rim was defective and three times the tire blew off of it after a minute or two man that scared everyone in the store.
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Old 12-27-22, 06:38 PM
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I can't see the original post, but I'm pretty sure it affirms a decision that I made a while back:

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Old 12-27-22, 06:42 PM
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OK so far the consensus is "You shouldn't do that" (Unhelpful answer #1) and "your an idiot"(sic) (Unhelpful answer #2). The rest (with one exception) is just supposition, which the ignorant/toxic often offer in place of facts. But you can't be surprised by this stuff, these are cycling forums after all, known for the ignorant and the toxic opining freely. I'm not asking if I should or shouldn't do it, I'm asking has anybody *done* it, and if so what was their experience. If the answer is "no I didn't" then why don't you just not reply, Hmmm?

Cheers,
Jon.
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Old 12-27-22, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I can't see the original post, but I'm pretty sure it affirms a decision that I made a while back:
Proud to be on *your* ignore list. Why don't you just keep ignoring? Is there a way of blocking you?
Cheers,
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Old 12-27-22, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jesnow View Post
OK so far the consensus is "You shouldn't do that" (Unhelpful answer #1) and "your an idiot"(sic) (Unhelpful answer #2). The rest (with one exception) is just supposition, which the ignorant/toxic often offer in place of facts. But you can't be surprised by this stuff, these are cycling forums after all, known for the ignorant and the toxic opining freely. I'm not asking if I should or shouldn't do it, I'm asking has anybody *done* it, and if so what was their experience. If the answer is "no I didn't" then why don't you just not reply, Hmmm?

Cheers,
Jon.
Look you want people to tell you what you want to hear. You came here knowing the answer you wanted and stated you wanted that answer and didn't want to hear another answer. It is not a good way to start. You are going into attack mode because you aren't getting yourself in the mirror in every post which is silly. Just take a second and breathe deeply and relax a little. It is an online forum you will get answers that may not be the ones you exactly want but you have to be able to roll with them or just make your own private forum for yourself and create your own different accounts that give you the answers you wish. We are all having fun, enjoying ourselves, talking about bikes and you seem to not be from the start I don't get it.

If you want to do this go ahead and do it you seem to be going to do it anyway so just do it and don't be combative here. If it works for you, great you got lucky and if it doesn't then you know why we said what we said.
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Old 12-27-22, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jesnow View Post
I'm not asking if I should or shouldn't do it, I'm asking has anybody *done* it, and if so what was their experience. If the answer is "no I didn't" then why don't you just not reply, Hmmm?
Your OP and follow-ups have the tone and language of a condescending arrogant newb. Don't bother replying to me unless you agree.

If you had asked the question more diplomatically, I'd say that no, I haven't done it. But what you're proposing to do is asking for trouble... I don't know if it's a 1% chance of a blowout or a 50% chance and neither does anybody else... even if they have done it. Although I don't recall hearing horror stories about this specific issue - and I think I would've heard them.

Here's one you can take to the bank though - if the tire packaging says "requires hook bead rims" then you better pay attention.

Continental recommends that you mount bicycle tyres on hook edge type rims only. Hook edge type rims provide a more secure hold, especially with air pressures exceeding 44 PSI (3 bar). These advantages are safety-relevant. From 73 PSI (5 bar) onwards, the hook edge type rims are even stipulated by the ETRTO guideline
​​​​​​​https://blobs.continental-tires.com/...otice-data.pdf

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Old 12-27-22, 08:37 PM
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Hmmm.
I thought the OP asked a very specific question looking for a very specific answer.
One which I thought was pretty interesting.
Don’t understand the diatribe.
At all.
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Old 12-27-22, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Hmmm.
I thought the OP asked a very specific question looking for a very specific answer.
One which I thought was pretty interesting.
Donít understand the diatribe.
At all.
Correct the OP asked a question they had the answer they wanted to and just wanted people to be a parrot and say "clincher as a tubeless, clincher as a tubeless, it's OK, squawk, It's OK". It wasn't an asking of a useful question for real answers it was someone just wanting a sounding board.
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Old 12-28-22, 12:29 AM
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After reading your rant on the other thread, I have to point out a few things if you don't mind. This is a discussion board. Discussions often take tangents and include conjecture in addition to facts. While I understand you asked for something specific and got answers that are not within that narrow scope, most discussions go this way. Part of it is because some people feel the need to chime in on almost anything. Part of it is because they want to form hypotheses on the situations, especially if solid evidence is absent. As you can see, real world applications for your questions have been rare. That could mean you're innovative beyond the rest of us, or it could mean nobody else is willing to take the risks. Either way, they're the only types of responses you have gotten because others haven't had the mind or guts to try it. Also note that your two controversial questions revolve around items which carry a crucial responsibility of safety. People responding could very well feel an obligation to speak up considering how catastrophic a failure of the wheel or tire could be.

Finally, while your attempt at limiting the scope of responses might have been well intended, it probably came across as a dare or challenge to people who feel you're being condescending or manipulating an otherwise open discussion. This forum has a wide variety of personalities, and you're bound to draw out a little bit of all of them. You're just putting the spotlight on the ones you consider to be undesirable.
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Old 12-28-22, 08:11 AM
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I've mounted some Schwalbe non-tubeless on tubeless carbon rims successfully. That isn't a data point, unless you plan to mount the exact same size and model tire on the exact same rim I did.

Continental non-tubeless tires definitely mount much easier than their tubeless.

You'll find out it didn't work when you're descending at 45 mph when the tire burps and you crash terribly.
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Old 12-28-22, 10:22 AM
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For reference OP also posited the idea of sanding rims down to fit tire, which in the end seemed to work for OP's use https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...them-down.html which had lively discussion

It seems like OP also had some not good things happen (not due to the sanding the rim) and I hope all is well

IMHO there is a big difference between innovative and potentially dangerous, cheap and "the cost difference is so little over time why not use the correct tire"

I personally call those out and I don't think that is mean or off topic

If an OP chooses to do their own thing and take the risks associated so be it, but hopefully with open eye

Form follows function, there are reasons Tubeless specific tires are built differently (performance with out the tube, staying on the rim etc)
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Old 12-28-22, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jesnow View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if manufacturers only made a single kind of tire these days and badged them differently.
Jon.
This is untrue. As an example I looked up both tube type and tubeless versions of the tires I use, the Hutchinson Fusion5 Performance. The tubeless version weighs 45 grams more than the tube type version. I can tell you from experience and observation that the beads look totally different. The tube type bead has a rounded profile while the tubeless version has a square profile which aids in both locking under the rim hook and providing a good seal. The tubeless ones can even be run without sealant . Part of the reason for the higher weight of the tubeless version is that the inner walls of the tire have an airtight layer that serves the same purpose as an inner tube on a tube type tire. Do what you want, but keep in mind that tube type and tubeless tires are not the same

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Old 12-28-22, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I've mounted some Schwalbe non-tubeless on tubeless carbon rims successfully. That isn't a data point, unless you plan to mount the exact same size and model tire on the exact same rim I did.

Continental non-tubeless tires definitely mount much easier than their tubeless.

You'll find out it didn't work when you're descending at 45 mph when the tire burps and you crash terribly.
Thank you! Having a burp at 45 certainly would be a bad thing. But my understanding is burping is something underinflated CX and MTB tires do. If there's really a chance of road tires burping I'm never ever going tubeless. But I personally have never heard of such a thing. Are you serious that you've heard of road tires burping?

Cheers,
Jon.
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Old 12-28-22, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jesnow View Post
Thank you! Having a burp at 45 certainly would be a bad thing. But my understanding is burping is something underinflated CX and MTB tires do. If there's really a chance of road tires burping I'm never ever going tubeless. But I personally have never heard of such a thing. Are you serious that you've heard of road tires burping?

Cheers,
Jon.
Not apples to apples, but I have had a road clincher blow off the rim when a tube blew. I was going at a really low speed so there was no problem, had it happened at speed i am certain in would have been a crash. vittoria corsa 28 mm, latex tubes on a mavic open pro rim, 110 psi for a (at the time 250 lb guy) for specifics.

There are several people on C&V forum who have stated that they moved to tubular as a result of a clincher flat at speed causing a crash due tire coming off the rim
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