elcruxio

If you look at the pros back in the day with deep drops and pros today with compact drops (basically all modern bars are compact, some, like the Deda RHM which I prefer are more compact than others) you'll notice that the drops are pretty much in the same spot but due to improved ergonomics in the hoods department the tops of the bars are lower. This does not need to go hand in hand in touring where bars are, like you said, higher. However all current bars, levers and brifters today are designed so that the intended main hand position is at the hoods. That is where you set the bar height, not the drops.

I also strongly disagree about the comment about trekking bars, which are only really good for flatland touring (maybe that's a bit harsh though...). Drop bars allow for better various handholds for climbing and most importantly for descending. There is no better bar system in the market for downhills than the drop bar as the hooks position drastically lowers the center of balance and places more weight at the front wheel as well as allows for optimal brake control, not to mention the fact that moving one's hand forward on the steering system makes the steering more like a rudder, less like a steering wheel = more stability and less chance for wobbles.

And for that control factor the drops (or hooks position really) should be as low as one can comfortably coast for an extended period. Also for headwinds etc. it's nice to have good pedaling ability but it needs to be kept in mind that forearms level against brake hoods is in fact more aerodynamic than when in the drops, even though it doesn't allow for the same kind of leverage.

Essentially if your drops are your hangout position, your bars aren't nearly as low as they could be and you could have an even better control position when descending.

Of course these are "schools of thought" -issues, but looking at how the gear is made, where the bar system has the most surface area (hoods and tops) and where the brakes nowdays are most accessible (hoods and hooks, not drops incidentally), it seems quite clear where the industry has intended the most of used ride position to be (hoods)

mrchaotica

Nah, the best bar for downhills is a MTB flat bar just because it's wider and thus the steering angle changes less for any given linear arm movement. (Presumably, a trekking bar used with hands placed relatively outboard would be equally good, but I haven't installed mine yet so I can't speak from experience.)

SaddleSoar

Padded stools and cheap beer!

fietsbob

And good friends or even Mingling with strangers in other countries ..

mm718

Cinelli gel cork tape over gel pads is divine. I also use oversized 31.8 drop bars with flat tops which adds even more comfort. Cross levers gives you something to hang on to on the bar tops...

elcruxio

It's not, even with a long stem. Mtb folk use wide bars because of leverage, not steering stability on tarmac descents. A straight bar also doesn't allow for dropping down like a drop bar, so dropping the centre of balance isn't nearly as simple.

Optimum would be a long reach drop bar with a longish stem and short frame for optimal weight distribution, but I've found a short reach bar and short stem to be effective enough

mrchaotica

I've heard the "leverage" claim before, but it's wrong. What do you think MTB folk are trying to "lever," anyway? It's not as if the fork takes more force to turn on a MTB (unless the headset bearings are seized, of course). They're rolling over the rocks and roots, not trying to pry them out of the ground!

No, MTB folk aren't trying to steer with more force; they're trying to steer with more precision -- which, not coincidentally, is exactly what is good at preventing wobbles too.

(I know this because my youth was spent MTBing and I still do the vast majority of my riding on flat-bar bikes. Whenever I ride a drop bar one, I'm much more wobbly. It's a very obvious difference.)

nickw

I’ll be honest, not really sure what you are saying.

Drops = anything below the hoods, be in bend, hooks, end of bar, etc.

Comparing pro-cycling to touring is a slippery slope. Pro cycling is restricted by wind resistance more than ideal power output position. Drops should be comfortable….to my point….for extended periods of time if/as required.

If they are not being utilized 95% of the time, it seems pointless to me but there are certainly a wide range of users and bodily issues to be sensitive too, I get it. Even when I’m not descending or riding into a headwind, I’ll drop down 10-15 min here and there to change up my hand position. While I use the hoods the majority of the time, I can use the drops for extended periods of time as well – which I suppose was my original point.

Not sure I agree with the low bar and descending – it’s not a black/white statement like you indicate. Certainly for technical descents, wide flat bars raised higher are much more comfortable, offer better control and provide the re-ward bias one needs.

Industry intent for racing does not = practical execution in touring

elcruxio

I do MTB with a modern geometry 29er, ie. short stem, very wide bar and long frame. The leverage is not about turning the front wheel, it's about leveraging the bike sideways in berms, tight corners, hairpins etc. Doing such stuff with a narrow bar or a drop bar would be impossible, so now there's a kind of a race about who can use the widest bar. I'm interested on who'll get to a meter bar first.

Anyways, on road descents you don't need the leverage as you turn by lean/counter steer. The bike leans on it's own when you let it. But on a technical trail you can't trust on the bike doing the turn, so you may have to forcibly turn the bike into the turn/over obstacles, hence the wide bar with lotsa leverage. Actually I believe the outside foot is much more important in road descending than the bar, but to get to lowest, most stable steering platform possible a drop bar with a long stem would be best.

elcruxio

The drop bar can be divided into several points of interest. Tops, ramps, hoods, hooks and drops. All of them are different and it's useful knowing them to allow for accuracy in discussion. The most commond descending position on drop bars is in the hooks where one can best reach the brake lever end = best brake modulation.

I'm quite sure the pro riders are fitted so that their riding position allows for both maximum power output and aerodynamic performance. But I think the power output thing is not really and issue.

Personal choice. But still especially with brifters the hoods allows for most surface area for hands, which are not good for weight bearing. But really it's about what's comfortable.

What do you mean by technical? MTB technical as in rock gardens? I totally agree that a wide bar is best there because of leverage. When I went down the local DH trails at 25mph I quite liked my wide bar MTB and would not have been able to do the same speeds with my CX.

Technical in tarmac as in lotsa cornering etc? Drop bar all the way as it's not about the bar anymore as much as much as it's about guts, speed tolerance, and stability of the platform for maximum grip. A wobble in a fast corner can mean a tire lifting from the ground = lost grip = bad situation.

50mph road descent on my 29er is positively twitchy while on my road bike it's so stable that I could almost fall asleep on the bike. I've honestly thought about what I could do to make my road bike more exciting on fast descents as those used to be the best thing in cycling, but now that I've gotten better at it it's gotten a bit boring. Where I live we don't have that many descents so I'm quite looking forward to the alps and doing fast descents fully loaded. That should show some challenge.

nickw

Common vernacular = anything below the hoods your in the 'drops'.

Pro's find the best balance of aero vs power.

I'm done - have a good weekend.

DropBarFan

I like hoods esp on bumpy and/or downhill sections. As elcruxio notes, it seems like pros ride on hoods a lot nowadays though I'd guess a major reason for that is quick access to shifters. I like 'standard' ie deeper drop since it's more aero in headwinds plus if back gets sore on long rides a deeper drop helps one stretch out while riding. Aero cliip-on bars are great since they also help stretch out the back but help relax arm/shoulder muscles too.

Happy Feet

I currently use trekking bars with aeros. I don't find going downhill with stability difficult at all nor cranking up hill. And, when I look at modern endurance racers like those doing RAAM or Trans Am, they are in the aeros going down hill. I imagine they have drop bars because they are racing and occasionally want to crank for speed though a lot of tri bikes have bullhorns and aeros so I would say that position tends to be more desirable than in the drops. Modern drops also seem to be flattened out these days in a way that de emphasizes the drop position.

DropBarFan

I never liked taping bars, simple enough theoretically but esp w/touring bikes there are complications. Some instructions say to leave brake levers bolted down & just use a short strip of tape to cover bare section but it's nicer to loosen lever & tape underneath though I guess one needs some way to mark correct lever position. Touring bars often don't include a groove for brake levers let alone a groove for bar-end shifter cables. I found rather little info about best spot to place cables on handlebar; last week I retaped & brake cable position is OK but it turns out putting bar-end shifter cable directly on bottom of drops gives irritating ridge. & then some tapes give barely enough length so one strives to minimize overlap despite that more overlap gives better comfort. OTOH the Fubar tape was fairly generous, didn't have a problem wrapping entire bar.

10 Wheels

Wrap an old tube on your bars before the new bar tape.

DropBarFan

An old-time economical hack but that and/or padded tape gives cushioning in places where it's not so needed ie lower half of handlbebar. After ease of installing Fizik bar-gel pieces I'm thinking one could use those in combination with old-style thin cotton or plastic tape which is cheaper & easier to apply. Fizik bar-gel supposedly has renewable adhesive ie wash with soap & water & then reapply. BTW I read that some Paris-Roubaix riders switch to narrower handlebars for more grip & control.

jefnvk

The day I get into serious descents (and along with them, climbs), a lot of things on my setup are likely to change. It just isn't terrain I encounter that much where I live or where I've been.

That said, now that I upgraded one of my bikes from the old school Wienmanns and Dia Comps to a modern aero lever, I never have had much trouble braking from the hoods. Quite comfortable, actually.