headwind15

I have what I believe to be a 1969 Cinelli frame set. I am considering having a re chroming and new paint on the frame. I am a frame builder. I looked into it and it looks like in the 70s, every year Cinelli would add braze ons to their frames. I believe it started with bb cable guides wb cage bosses then downtube shift and then top tube cable guides. (OK I might not have the order exactly right). THE BOTTOM LINE: Would it devalue it as a bike, if I were to add these braze ons to this frame? I would put the bb guides over the bb, to at least have it look like bikes from the 60s/ 70s.

rccardr 

Haters gonna hate (“Don’t you DARE desecrate that frame!”)
Playas gonna play (“Hey man, it’s your bike, do what you want, nothing is irreversible”)

’Tis your choice, enjoy!

juvela

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count yourself fortunate it is not a bit earlier and you had a seventy-four mm shell to deal with

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traditional Cinelli frame construction is reported to have been hearth brazing with sinterized

as a frame builder, it might be interesting for you to see if your example is all torch brazed by this date



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brian3069

Once the original paint is gone, adding braze ons will not effect the value one way or another.

randyjawa 

Altering the bike would devalue it. I speak from experience not just opinion. Yes, it is your bike and you can do with it what you wish. My guess is that if you do alter it, you will eventually wish that had not done so.

Re-chrome and repaint would cost a bit but would not decrease the value. Adding or removing frame parts would reduce the bike's collectable value.

In closing my thoughts, if you want a more modern frame set with the braze-on of which you speak, just go buy such a frame set. Keep your Cinelli as is. In time, and with the experience that goes with "in time" you will come to appreciate the wisdom in this path.

repechage

I don't agree. But a reasonable case can be made either way.

As an exercise in restoration, even if the frame was free, chrome and paint, graphics will be way more spent vs market value.

A good example might still be on CL in orange county california. Pro restore, new chrome, terrific paint,I have only minor quibbles.

the made in Italy sticker and the model name, world bands on the seat tube were not originally clear coated over.

The bike is also a bit if a modificati as it has a Campag 50th group, nice, the rear triangle had to be spread, (unfortunate) and a hack mechanic installed the headset.

Outrageous asking price and it is down from original. last I looked $11,250. I think with the frame in hand to replicate that would be $5,000-6,000.


for a 1969, about the only braze on would be the chainstay cable stop.

I have a '71 and it has that and BB cable guides.

Have to walk to 1974 for waterbottle bosses, (and not all) more years for down tube shift braze ons. In my recent referencing, I have seen two with the bosses that had the scalloped four point reinforcements. Was a surprise to me.


As a rider to use, the fewer down tube clamps the better, much easier to clean.

I upgraded a few bikes when there was no classic and vintage and they were just out of date 120mm spaced bikes. Or, in one instance, took it back to the factory for a color change and update, no qualms to do that work.


if you want to have a reason to add shift cable guides, mount the Campagnolo cable guide and see if the bent "tab" can reach the bottom bracket shell, if not and it has to slide up for the clamp to clear the shell spigot, there is your case to add, having the clamp too far up, places the front shift cable very close to the back of the seat tube, even rubbing sometimes. See, it can all be rationalized.

CliffordK

The 1960's was an era of rapid change and expansion in the Italian cycling industry.

I've thought about that some with my old Colnago. It turns out that I accidentally ended up with a very early Colnago Super. I had intended to modernize it, but at this point, may not just because it was from the first 2 years of Colnago Super production (oddly apparently repainted in the early 70's).

In your case, I would imagine going non-original will devalue the frame somewhat on the open market. And, assuming I haven't worn it out, it could be put back to near "original" if one wished.

There are good Campagnolo clamp on cable guides that are available, both over bottom bracket, as well as rear brake.

Part of the equation will be the value of the bicycle to you.

However, if you do choose to add some braze-ons, I'd encourage you not to do irreversable changes. So, no drilling bottle cage mounts or internal cable routing.

Nessism

How much is the frame worth now?

repechage

Depends on size and condition. We assume it needs a respray. Reportedly there is an Alfa Romeo color from the 50's-60's that matches the fine grain silver metallic...
I would go black, a standard color and works so well with the chrome.

headwind15

I have pretty close to all the parts. If I decide to sell it, I would sell it as a complete bike. BTW... If this bike was used to make, lets say an Olympic team, does that make it any more valuable?

3alarmer 

.
...I added bottle boss braze-ons to a very nice 1970 Raleigh Pro that needed a small crack in the head tube lug fixed by brazing. I figured if I was gonna repaint it anyway, I would enjoy the bike a lot more with a bottle cage on the down tube, instead of hanging from the bar. Part of my analysis is that I don't expect to get back the money I spent in the restoration anyway, and if you are investing in re-chroming, you probably won't either. I could be wrong.

3alarmer 

...now you're into provenance. I know jack about provenance.

repechage

only with proof and if they medaled.
’64 was won on a Cinelli Model B by the way.

if you want to pursue the history angle- no painting, clean it up and reassemble it.
there are no highly recognized bicycle concours, if there were, there should be a preservation class.

machinist42

Pictures, or it has not happened.

jet sanchEz

I have an old Cinelli that doesn't have any braze-ons at all, not even for water bottles

I always figured it was custom but how easy was it to get a custom order from Cinelli in the early 1970s?

Pic

CliffordK

I think during the 60's and early 70's, 100% of the Colnago frames were made to order (although bike shops may have had stock orders). They also did customs for overseas bike shops.

Cinelli might have been a bit larger, but I presume it was similar.

https://cinelli.it/en/timeline-2/

I assume by the late 60's or early 70's, there would have been somewhat more made. But, it is quite possible the top of the line bikes remained with a very small group of builders.

@jet sanchEz,

Do you know the year of your bicycle? My '68/'69 Colnago had essentially identical braze-ons. Above bottom bracket braze-ons, and rear cable stop. Everything else was clamp-on.



If I was to add a braze-on, it would be adding a clamp-on shifter mount stop.

repechage

on the underside of the downtube. One has to keep up appearances.

jet sanchEz

No, I don't know the year of mine but all the Campagnolo components have a 73 date code

The bar end shifters are SunTour

It came with a 135mm Cinelli stem

Someone really knew what they were doing when they set this bike up

repechage

Big boy there- it has braze ons at the bottom bracket for the shift cables- 1970-71 to me.
maybe 1969.
my 1971 has no eyelets.

deserves new bar wrap and a Cinelli stem with a nutted handlebar clamp bolt
Preservation Class

jet sanchEz

It is a very fugly stem, I know, but it is the shortest one I had on hand

New wrap and new hoods is most definitely in the works

I know it is too big for me but with the seat low and a short stem It feels very similar to a 58cm frame, which is what I ride

repechage

There are some in framebuilders
regarding raising lugs

I will refrain from editorial comment

machinist42

Would there be any content on BF if posters refrained from editorial comment?

What does "...looked a bit Windsor to me" mean? I recently acquired a cosmetically challenged but structurally sound Carabela Profesional. The lugs and joinery are very well executed.

For what it's worth for our wait, here are the (only) pictures OP has posted in Framebuilders.

repechage

The Windsor pro was very close to the Cinelli.
the holes in the lugs on this one just appeared more Windsor at first glance than Italian.

Cinelli frames back then were all over the place as to metalwork attention.
I think the idea of “improving” things really requires thinking of how every tang would be modified. As Doug Fattic stated, it can be improved, but it would look odd as they were not that perfect.

ya want perfect, make a replicant.
i Think it would be a safer route to success.