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New to Moisture - XL KHS Flite 720

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

New to Moisture - XL KHS Flite 720

Old 12-01-21, 11:21 PM
  #101  
Maelochs
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
i angled the saddle this way because it helps me get comfortable with the handlebar drop.
What you are saying here is that seat-bar drop is excessive for your build or capacities ...... Whatever. If you have to make one part wrong to make another part more right, neither is right.
Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
As long as I get the reach a closer and the drop slightly lower, I think it'll fit me a lot better.
Or maybe stop trying to pretend you are a World Tour racer and raise the bars and bring them closer so you can reach them without having to tilt the saddle so much it forces your forward onto the bars?

Alos .... I don;'t care how long your cranks are, if you are hitting pavement then you are doing it wrong. (Your bike does not have 170 mm BB drop .... the pictures show that.)

Just a note---if you are leaned way over, you will be more stable with the outside pedal down and all your weight on it. And don't pedal---hitting the ground is, like pain and badly positioned parts, a sigh that you need to make changes.

Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
The stem seen in the latest pics is 110 +10°. It's bent. Changing it to 90 -7° at a higher stack for next time the weather permits a ride. I'll be sure to re adjust the saddle angle and try again - thanks for the suggestion.
Seems you want the stem angled down for the same reason you don't like spacers---you'd rather have a bike that hurts to ride but which sme imaginary observer thinks "looks cool."

Here's a tip---90 percent of the people you pass think anyone on a bike is stupid and looks stupid, and of the rest, the ones who judge will think you look like a Fred unless you have the same brand of bike, wheels, drive train, and clothing they do ... in which case they will find you threatening. Ride your yourself, set up the bike for yourself.

Or don't.

I think the bike looks okay on a website.... but to me, any real-life bike which hurts to ride is broken and needs fixing, and I don't think broken bikes look good. Again ..... whatever.
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Old 12-02-21, 12:31 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
My inseam is 46% of my total height which isn't wildly disproportionate, but I certainly do feel that is messes with my bike fit a bit. I also have very long arms which makes things a bit more complicated still as my torso is relatively shorter, but I need extra space for my arms to stretch out anyways.
This is exactly what I am talking about...

You provide a meaningless number about your inseam...how about you provide a metric or imperial length of your inseam length? That would be a really useful thing to know, to get a baseline sizing, not a percentage. If you walked into my shop and said, "Hey, I have a wonky inseam, it is 46% of my total height," I'd just look at you and say, "Okay." And then the conversation would turn to "give me a number I can use to relate to a bike frame size." Like, how long is your inseam standing on the floor barefoot? I don't actually own or work in a shop, but you get the idea, I think.

Your approach to the bar position is disastrous as well, but you've already been given solid advice on getting it right, so I will summarize in a simple to follow step-by-step: (1) by changing out stems, and removing/adding spacers if necessary, find the right position for the bar tops, then (2) evaluate the drops, if they still don't work for you, consider a different bar with a different bend and drop. Oh, and rotate the bar so the tops make a level (0° deflection from the ground) transition to the hood. You can adjust this a bit later if necessary, but I strongly advise against it. And, level your saddle, if you need a little bit of tilt on it, fine, tip the nose down 2-3°, which is not very much.

You need to stop this changing everything all at once business. Get methodical, one thing at a time in a logical order (most of your issues would be solved by figuring out: saddle position relative to crank axle (or pedal top), then bar tops relative to saddle, then make minor tweaks from there as you ride and figure out what works better). And if the bike doesn't fit, get a new bike. If you don't know what size bike you need (which seems like a real possibility), go talk to a shop. And DO NOT under any conditions start prattling on about your inseam percentage relative to height and short torsos with orangutan arms.

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Old 12-02-21, 07:45 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
If y'all enjoy Moisty's fit advice, he and the other one are handing it out pretty freely in Fitting Your Bike.
I went to check out that other thread.... I hadn't seen it previously (and why would I, I have a bike that actually fits). I didn't know he also bought a Felt.

How many bikes does he have now? I hope he isn't endlessly tinkering with fitment on them all at the same time. No wonder none of our advice sticks. If I tried that I'd probably end up with one bike with five wheels, mismatched crank lengths and a 300mm stem...
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Old 12-02-21, 08:01 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
obviously you understand that everyone has awkward proportions? My inseam is 46% of my total height which isn't wildly disproportionate, but I certainly do feel that is messes with my bike fit a bit. I also have very long arms which makes things a bit more complicated still as my torso is relatively shorter, but I need extra space for my arms to stretch out anyways.
I have a very similar build ... if anything, more extreme. What you might want to try (If you really have the build you claim) is an unusually short top tube and stem, with less seat-bar drop.

It seems to some that your long arms balance the short torso, but it is all about mass and center of balance, and if the bike has a lot of reach you will feel what you feel---you are reaching forward, your pelvis tilts a little too much which makes you want to lower the nose of the saddle, which pitches you further forward and hurts your hands and arms, and since you are too bent and reaching too far with the center of gravity too far forward it hits your lower back, particularly if you pedal hard and use all the hip muscles while riding.

I will find pics of my bikes eventually---you will see lots of spacers and short, up-angled stems on them, and purists might want low, flat stems slammed to the headset, but I don't care. I have experimented constantly to find what works For Me. I am the one riding the bike.

I also tend to have my saddle a little further back---some people move the saddle forward to compensate for long frames and stems. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of physics and anatomy.

I want my weight over and a little behind my legs, with my legs holding up most of my weight. If the weight is too far forward---even a cm or two---it can put too much load on the arms, and instead of your stomach and back supporting your torso over your hips, you make your spine into a big suspension bridge anchored by the arms up front and the lower back in back, which means every motion cranks the lower back at a sharper angle, while there is also a tendency to lock the elbows which transmits even more force to the junction of the spine and pelvis.

I like to have my weight held up mostly by my legs so my spine isn't heavily loaded at the front (shoulders) and it can flex along its whole length to absorb shock because it isn't starting out overloaded with a rigid connection at each end.

I have tried a bunch of set ups and eventually gravitated t one which most people call "wrong" because it doesn't look like how the World Tour riders ride.

I am not a world-tour rider. I have ridiculously long arms and legs and a tiny torso, and I am not a trained athlete. I set up my bikes to fit Me. I kept tweaking until I found what worked for me.
Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
The bottom bracket is 267mm, which like I said will cause striking around turns even with 175mm arms. No way I'm going longer than that.
Ummmm .... yeah, learn to ride a bike, would be the specific advice others have given you to help resolve that problem.

You are in effect saying, "My car is so wide that I drive into things." Don't drive into places it doesn't fit. Not exactly the science of the rocket.

If your pedal strikes while cornering, don't pedal at the max lean angle. Not exactly the surgery of the brain.

Seriously, do you think you corner as aggressively as say, Crit racers? Do you think they all use 135-mm cranks or something?

If you keep hitting things ... stop- hitting things.
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Old 12-02-21, 11:41 AM
  #105  
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shelbyfv actually it seems to be more the end of the crank arm which strikes before my big honkin platforms lol.

I like how the rise helps to make the hoods seem genuinely comfortable while still being able to get pretty aggressive in the drops, at least with the crazy long reach that the TT length and stock stem puts you in.
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Old 12-02-21, 12:09 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
shelbyfv actually it seems to be more the end of the crank arm which strikes before my big honkin platforms lol.
That is literally impossible.

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously...?
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Old 12-02-21, 12:15 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
That is literally impossible.

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously...?
not impossible, there are marks on the crank arm ends, but the pedals do strike as well yes.
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Old 12-02-21, 12:27 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
If your pedal strikes while cornering, don't pedal at the max lean angle. Not exactly the surgery of the brain.

Seriously, do you think you corner as aggressively as say, Crit racers? Do you think they all use 135-mm cranks or something?

If you keep hitting things ... stop- hitting things.
I think I learned this when I was about 10, riding my BMX bike around my 'hood.
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Old 12-02-21, 12:35 PM
  #109  
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I learned how to avoid the majority of pedal striking with a 274mm bb height and 190mm crank arms.

I got some striking while still getting a feel for pedal clearance on this new bike. I adapted back to being able to pedal through turns on the e bike before needing to adapt back one more time.
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Old 12-02-21, 12:48 PM
  #110  
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Mr "M-word" (eww) - you are going about this in a very haphazard manner. Not sure why you think setting your bike up is paint by (your) numbers with questionable math and frame measurements, since as you say all road bike geometry is pretty much the same. There are three basic things to get right in fit, IMO in a pretty specific order

1. Saddle position/height - this has nothing to do with your reach to the bars, it is about getting your lower half set up in an efficient biomechanical position. This is the foundation, and there is old-school math (.883 or .885 or 1.095 x cycling inseam) as well as general rules of thumb (KOPS, degree of knee bend, heel on pedal, etc) to help with this. My advice is to pick one method and set as your baseline. And the saddle should be level to a couple of degrees (at most) tilted down. Start here and don't change this for a bit.
2. Cleat setup - this does not apply to you with those goofy pedals, not sure why you are so obsessed with the minutia of fitting with pedals like that, but whatever.
3. Bar/stem setup - without the proper foundation (saddle position) at best you are guessing if you jump into this too early

Once you get a baseline across all of the above, then start making small adjustments over several rides, never changing more than one thing at a time.

Those are the "what", I am not going to tell you the "how", as you don't take constructive advice too well. It would be interesting to know how you arrived at the saddle position per your most recent photos...
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Old 12-02-21, 12:51 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
not impossible, there are marks on the crank arm ends, but the pedals do strike as well yes.
Your crank arms are not marked up from striking the ground. Maybe a curb, or a rock, but not the surface your wheels are rolling on.
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Old 12-02-21, 01:07 PM
  #112  
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mprince this is how the previous owner rode the bike..

He was using his own wheelset with regular road tires. But that saddle tilt tho..
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Old 12-02-21, 01:48 PM
  #113  
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The previous owner didn't ride much, or well, with that set-up ...... but you go ride how you like. Enjoy the easily avoidable pain, set up the bike to suit how imaginary people think it should look .... just tell me One thing ...


Since the pedal on Most bikes projects out from the crank at a 90-degree angle, perpendicular to the direction of travel, and since the outboard end of the pedal is thus Lower than the inboard (crank) end when the bike is leaned down toward that side ...... how is it physically possible for the crank, which is further from the ground, to strike the ground while the outer end of the pedal, which is closer to the ground, does not?

Please explain the mechanics there.
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Old 12-02-21, 02:08 PM
  #114  
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I think we've spotted the problem. It isn't the fitment that is the problem; it is all those banana peels you're riding over. Don't you know those can cause you to skid and crash?

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Old 12-02-21, 02:22 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Reflector Guy View Post
I think we've spotted the problem. It isn't the fitment that is the problem; it is all those banana peels you're riding over. Don't you know those can cause you to skid and crash?

And skidding and crashing with the pictured setup will impact the ends of the crankarms, one impossible mystery solved...
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Old 12-02-21, 02:26 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Reflector Guy View Post
I think we've spotted the problem. It isn't the fitment that is the problem; it is all those banana peels you're riding over. Don't you know those can cause you to skid and crash?

A banana on the rear wheel is simply smart gaming. It protects you from red shells.
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Old 12-02-21, 02:43 PM
  #117  
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You guys are just too, good grief 😆🤣

The banana apparently was for scale.

I thought the slight downward angle i had it adjusted to felt pretty comfortable. Looking forward to adjusting the saddle position and going for a spin once weather permits.

Should probably look into a trainer as someone suggested..
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Old 12-02-21, 03:00 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
shelbyfv actually it seems to be more the end of the crank arm which strikes before my big honkin platforms lol.
Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
That is literally impossible.
Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
not impossible, there are marks on the crank arm ends, but the pedals do strike as well yes.
Nope. It is impossible for the crankarms to strike the pavement while cornering, unless you are riding without pedals. Literally impossible. Go outside and try it.
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Old 12-02-21, 04:12 PM
  #119  
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shelbyfv

I dont think the specs i mentiojed earlier were accurate. Looks like the drop is 129mm with the 30mm rise factored in and 99mm without, and a 79mm reach?

So it's a pretty shallow drop at least from where the bars mount at the stem... this means I can mount the stem lower onto the steerer tube to get an otherwise.similar handlebar position?

did you have any issues using regular road bike hoods designed for 0° flare bars on your flared bars?
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Old 12-02-21, 04:27 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
shelbyfv

did you have any issues using regular road bike hoods designed for 0° flare bars on your flared bars?
I don't know what the hoods were designed for but they seem fine on the flared bar. 6600 and 8000. Sorry, that's as far as I can go down the rabbit hole.
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Old 12-04-21, 02:35 PM
  #121  
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It seems we have dried up all the moisture .......
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Old 12-04-21, 05:40 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
It seems we have dried up all the moisture .......
Maybe he's still outside trying to scrape his crankarms on the pavement.
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Old 12-05-21, 02:07 AM
  #123  
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Lol, so I currently have the 90mm stem mounted-7°, I dont want to go any shorter than 100 or 90 on a bike like this, as I find that it would only be compensating for a drop bar that is perhaps too excessive in reach for me?

I know something like my old nishiki road bike was stock 580mm top tube, 100mm stem a good 30mm less in drop reach than my current bike with the longer chainstays to compensate would fit me more comfortably.

I know that I prefer a stack of around 630-640 but up to 650 would be fine with a very long reach. Luckily I can achieve this due to the uncut steerer tube.

Next ill be installing my surly truck stop bars and gradually adapt back to the 110mm stem by eventually switching to 100mm somewhere along the way.
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Old 12-05-21, 03:35 AM
  #124  
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You are complaining the bike is too long, and you plan to install a longer stem? Bravo!

A shorter stem would be compensating for a too-long top tube .... and News Flash---That is why you would use a shorter stem.

But whatever. Keep keeping us posted and try ibuprofen for the back pain. The rest of us would adjust our set-ups, but you don't have to. We value individuality.

Good to see you are still around.

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Old 12-05-21, 09:15 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
You are complaining the bike is too long, and you plan to install a longer stem? Bravo!

A shorter stem would be compensating for a too-long top tube .... and News Flash---That is why you would use a shorter stem.

But whatever. Keep keeping us posted and try ibuprofen for the back pain. The rest of us would adjust our set-ups, but you don't have to. We value individuality.

Good to see you are still around.

Shame you bothered to give advice without even checking my previous posts.

110mm is stock. Actually, I read somewhere that stock on this bike was 120mm for the 2012 model year. Mine is a 2008.

I'll stick to 90 or maybe 100 for now.
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