bissells

Greetings all,
I realize that The Paterek Manual doesn't seem to be anyone's favorite here however it helped me a lot. His website is down and I would very much like to acquire the DVD collection. Anyone know where they might be found or if someone has them and would like to sell/loan them out? Thanks in advance and also for all the great discussions I've read here!
Steve

unterhausen

doesn't look good for right now, didn't find anything on amazon or ebay. Maybe someone here has them

I wonder if it's not a temporary issue with the site

Cynikal 

I have the lugless DVD set. Drop me a PM, let's talk.

TiHabanero

I, too, got my start using the Paterek manual, although in paper form, not on disk. Found it to be the right amount of information to get my head wrapped around building a frame. Experiencing the build is the authoritative teacher, but Paterek manual is a good place to start provided you already have some very basic brazing experience at some point in your life. It was 30 years between brazing sessions when I built the first frame. Not until the 3rd frame did I feel comfortable getting good flow. Still don't trust myself with building a fork! Yes, a cautious one I am.

pwyg

I think Tim is simply done with that. I have not discussed that part of his life recently. I know he has retired from his teaching in the school system in Vancouver. What I think us so funny about my predecessor and what he acheived is simply how many frame builders are here because of his manual and those he taught over the years while he was active building and teaching the craft.

bissells

Thanks for the information and replies! I'll keep looking via e-bay etc.
@ Cynikal, thanks for the offer and when I get home from work, I'll send a pm.
Best regards to all,
Steve

bissells

@Cynikal, so as a real newbie I've figured out that I need to post 8 more messages before I can PM someone :-).

Cynikal 

No worries. Keep responding here and get your 10 posts!

Cynikal 

I will add that watching his videos is painful. He works with several large mills and advanced tools and give good advise on how to use them but if you are a file and vise kinda person, they can be tough.

unterhausen

newbies can leave a visitors message on someone's profile

Cynikal 

I sent a PM with my email.

bissells

@Cynikal, got your message, thanks!

And yes, I am a vise and file person (it's kinda soothing in its own way) but what I hope to get out of the videos is some good visuals on the prep and actual brazing process. I have been somewhat successful first with lots of practice joints and then on my first lugged frame. I have quite a bit of experience sweating copper pipes and the theory and practice is very similar. Fillet brazing on the other hand, is eluding me and before I waste more practice materials I would like to be able to watch a pro at work (no chance of that near me). YouTube has been disappointing. There are some amazing builders posting videos but the flame seems to always obscure the details. I'm hoping Tim's will be more "instructional".

pwyg

Just for people's info Tim dropped his website. His manual is now an e-book on the Kindle.

unterhausen

Interesting information. Too bad about the DVDs. Took me a while to find it on Amazon, the main search is used paper
Here is volume 1 https://www.amazon.com/Paterek-Manua...sr=1-1-catcorr

Volume 2
https://www.amazon.com/Paterek-Manua...sr=1-2-catcorr

Nessism

I bought the "annotated" version of Paterek's book back in the day but frankly, didn't find it overly useful. Some guy from here borrowed it and never returned it but that's a story for another day... Anyway, with youtube and tons of different pro builders sharing photos of their build process, plus this forum of course, I'd skip the Paterek book and just do your own research. There is plenty of information available to assist someone in building a simple lugged frame. Biggest challenge is figuring out your tooling and fixturing, and honing your brazing skills of course. It ain't rocket science.

unterhausen

that's what happened to my Talbot's manual too. I'm sure it's in a landfill somewhere.

I probably would have bought Paterek if it was available when I started, I bought just about anything available. Which was not much. If someone really wants to learn, $80 is nothing. There are a lot of books by people that aren't really framebuilders on amazon. I like to say everyone has something to teach you, but I look at amazon's collection of framebuilding books and wonder.

You can learn a lot from people's flickr accounts. But there is a certain level of knowledge needed first. I have thought about making some videos, but I need to get some brazing glasses for my camera.

unterhausen

someone is selling books/videos on facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/fram...98664450367798

bissells

I'd like to thank everyone for the replies, help and good information! I was pretty happy with my first lugged build and will continue researching fillet-brazing for my next bike (a tandem). Although I didn't fully document the first build with good enough photos, I plan to do so with the fillets and will post them in the build section for anyone interested. I've got a thick skin :-).
Cheers all,
Steve

Andrew R Stewart 

Steve- A heads up about tandem building- It's not uncommon to see greater heat distortion of the BB shells and the head tube on tandems, then on similarly tubed singles. Those extra tubes need more/longer heat cycles to join. Make sure you're producing good fillets as quickly as you can. Or said in another way. Practice a lot. Andy

unterhausen

I don't think I would make a tandem as a second frame. My recommendation is to make a fillet single first.

MassiveD

I got the DVDs, and the two styles are different. One is all machining based, and the other is hand skills. You don't get to choose which approach you prefer relative to your preferred method.

The Paterek approach is from the perspective of a machinist, which is not the method most commonly seen in frame shops, but it has become more common as an approach to TIG. And while it would have been impractical to set up a shop with machine tools in the period when the manual was first written, the advent of cheap Asian tools, and later Ebay/deindustrialization has made machine tools often cheaper than hand tools. Admittedly Nicholson files are pretty cheap, but there are some nice files that are 50 dollars a crack, not to mention vises, where a milling machine or lathe can often be picked up for a few hundred.

bissells

@ both Andrew and Unterhausen: Thanks for the advice and it makes good sense. I'll practice my fillets and probably build a cargo bike first which won't need to be so "pretty".

rvestuti

Hello -

I have the complete set of Paterek framebuilding DVD's. I would like to sell them- If someone could make me a fair offer- we can figure out how to exchange info.
I think I watched 10 mins of one- and the rest are in the original packaging. My lack of followthrough with this "hobby" is your gain.

rvestuti

Hello Bissells- I have the full set of DVD's- I have not even opened them- let me know if you are still trying to purchase these- cleaning house .
cheers

Paul_L

Hey Cynikal - I'd love to talk about the lugless DVDs! Do you still have them or the videos?