Swiss or English threads on this bottom bracket from an 1984 Peugeot PH11?
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Swiss or English threads on this bottom bracket from an 1984 Peugeot PH11?
Hello!
I'm trying to fix up a Peugeot PH11 from 1984, and I've managed to get off the bottom bracket but I can't figure out if it is Swiss or English threads (the fixed cup was LH threaded, so it should not be French). Apparently sometime around 1984/1985 Peugeot stopped putting Swiss threads into their bikes, so need to figure out what it is because one of the races is damaged. I have no British/ISO threaded bottom bracket to test with. Hoping that someone might have some clues from looking at these photos .
Some photos:
The cups. I've heard Swiss cups can have a ring around the circumference of the fixed cup, this one has a ring on the side, but not around the circumference. Not sure if that gives any clues?
Damaged bearing race
Marked "B S"
Marked "1 18"
Marked "Stronglight 118 Made in France"
The bike in question!
I'm trying to fix up a Peugeot PH11 from 1984, and I've managed to get off the bottom bracket but I can't figure out if it is Swiss or English threads (the fixed cup was LH threaded, so it should not be French). Apparently sometime around 1984/1985 Peugeot stopped putting Swiss threads into their bikes, so need to figure out what it is because one of the races is damaged. I have no British/ISO threaded bottom bracket to test with. Hoping that someone might have some clues from looking at these photos .
Some photos:
The cups. I've heard Swiss cups can have a ring around the circumference of the fixed cup, this one has a ring on the side, but not around the circumference. Not sure if that gives any clues?
Damaged bearing race
Marked "B S"
Marked "1 18"
Marked "Stronglight 118 Made in France"
The bike in question!
Last edited by gustav531; 04-16-20 at 10:05 AM.
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Do you have vernier calipers to measure the thread O.D.?
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#4
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good info here on bottom brackets and threading might help you.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribshe...mbrackets.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribshe...mbrackets.html
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Or conversely, do you have access to any English bottom bracket cups that you can test-fit into your frame?
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Probably British and probably the headset to. Pull the stem, if its stamped 22.2 its British, 22.0 its French. See the ring around the circumference of the headset top nut? Probably British. Most Swiss cups were gold/yellowish in color.
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Do you have a freewheel that you know to be English thread? If so, you can thread the non-drive side cup into it to check the thread pitch.
From Sheldon:
"A bottom-bracket cup can serve as a thread gauge for a freewheel: Dimensions are usually marked on cups. Hold the threads of the bottom-bracket cup against those of the hub, and look in between, against the light. If the threads engage tightly all the way across, the thread pitch is the same. If they rock across each other, it is different. You may check the thread pitch of a freewheel by threading an ISO left bottom-bracket cup into it (not a right cup, which is left-threaded). The cup will go in easily if the thread pitch is the same -- but do have a freewheel extractor tool handy so you can unscrew the cup."
From Sheldon:
"A bottom-bracket cup can serve as a thread gauge for a freewheel: Dimensions are usually marked on cups. Hold the threads of the bottom-bracket cup against those of the hub, and look in between, against the light. If the threads engage tightly all the way across, the thread pitch is the same. If they rock across each other, it is different. You may check the thread pitch of a freewheel by threading an ISO left bottom-bracket cup into it (not a right cup, which is left-threaded). The cup will go in easily if the thread pitch is the same -- but do have a freewheel extractor tool handy so you can unscrew the cup."
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Do you have a freewheel that you know to be English thread? If so, you can thread the non-drive side cup into it to check the thread pitch.
From Sheldon:
"A bottom-bracket cup can serve as a thread gauge for a freewheel: Dimensions are usually marked on cups. Hold the threads of the bottom-bracket cup against those of the hub, and look in between, against the light. If the threads engage tightly all the way across, the thread pitch is the same. If they rock across each other, it is different. You may check the thread pitch of a freewheel by threading an ISO left bottom-bracket cup into it (not a right cup, which is left-threaded). The cup will go in easily if the thread pitch is the same -- but do have a freewheel extractor tool handy so you can unscrew the cup."
From Sheldon:
"A bottom-bracket cup can serve as a thread gauge for a freewheel: Dimensions are usually marked on cups. Hold the threads of the bottom-bracket cup against those of the hub, and look in between, against the light. If the threads engage tightly all the way across, the thread pitch is the same. If they rock across each other, it is different. You may check the thread pitch of a freewheel by threading an ISO left bottom-bracket cup into it (not a right cup, which is left-threaded). The cup will go in easily if the thread pitch is the same -- but do have a freewheel extractor tool handy so you can unscrew the cup."
Edited for clarity.
Last edited by miamijim; 04-16-20 at 02:28 PM.
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Do you have a freewheel that you know to be English thread? If so, you can thread the non-drive side cup into it to check the thread pitch.
From Sheldon:
"A bottom-bracket cup can serve as a thread gauge for a freewheel: Dimensions are usually marked on cups. Hold the threads of the bottom-bracket cup against those of the hub, and look in between, against the light. If the threads engage tightly all the way across, the thread pitch is the same. If they rock across each other, it is different. You may check the thread pitch of a freewheel by threading an ISO left bottom-bracket cup into it (not a right cup, which is left-threaded). The cup will go in easily if the thread pitch is the same -- but do have a freewheel extractor tool handy so you can unscrew the cup."
From Sheldon:
"A bottom-bracket cup can serve as a thread gauge for a freewheel: Dimensions are usually marked on cups. Hold the threads of the bottom-bracket cup against those of the hub, and look in between, against the light. If the threads engage tightly all the way across, the thread pitch is the same. If they rock across each other, it is different. You may check the thread pitch of a freewheel by threading an ISO left bottom-bracket cup into it (not a right cup, which is left-threaded). The cup will go in easily if the thread pitch is the same -- but do have a freewheel extractor tool handy so you can unscrew the cup."
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I can use a standard freewheel on an Italian threaded hub, but I can't do the same with a French threaded freewheel.
From what I understand, on the adjustable bb cup, Swiss is the same threading as French.
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If I find out the stem is British (22.2 mm), can I be fairly certain that I have British threads in the BB?
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The problem might be how you interpret the measurement of the stem quill, since there is only a .2mm difference, a stem can measure 22.0mm in diameter and be intended as English (or as small as 21.8mm if French).
A front or rear axle can almost always be used as a 1mm-pitch thread gauge, as long as it isn't made by Campagnolo or is solid (vs. hollow).
Japanese, French and even most Italian axles have 1mm thread pitch (25.4 TPI).
I don't think it is out of the question to use a good metal ruler to check thread pitch, 1mm pitch should be spot-on with your metric ruler if you have good eyesight.
A front or rear axle can almost always be used as a 1mm-pitch thread gauge, as long as it isn't made by Campagnolo or is solid (vs. hollow).
Japanese, French and even most Italian axles have 1mm thread pitch (25.4 TPI).
I don't think it is out of the question to use a good metal ruler to check thread pitch, 1mm pitch should be spot-on with your metric ruler if you have good eyesight.
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Really? Or are you thinking "Italian and British are so close..."?
I can use a standard freewheel on an Italian threaded hub, but I can't do the same with a French threaded freewheel.
From what I understand, on the adjustable bb cup, Swiss is the same threading as French.
I can use a standard freewheel on an Italian threaded hub, but I can't do the same with a French threaded freewheel.
From what I understand, on the adjustable bb cup, Swiss is the same threading as French.
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Hmm. Post #18 in this thread has a Sutherland's reference for Stronglight BB's, and according to that reference, your fixed cup should be Italian, which is right-hand thread (one ring, two flats). ********************???
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nch-swiss.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nch-swiss.html
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Hmm. Post #18 in this thread has a Sutherland's reference for Stronglight BB's, and according to that reference, your fixed cup should be Italian, which is right-hand thread (one ring, two flats). ********************???
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nch-swiss.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nch-swiss.html
Year, ring on cup and its not yellow/gold-ish
#17
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If it's British, it's 24 tpi. If Swiss, 1mm or 25.4 tpi. You can check for British thread as described above with a British threaded hub. Likewise, you can check for 1mm thread with anything you know to be 1mm. If your hub is a French threaded freewheel hub, you can check the left cup against it -- match, it's Swiss, no match it's British. Or a hub axle which should be 1 mm thread, unless it's Campagnolo in which case it's probably 26 tpi so it won't work. Because 24 tpi and 1 mm thread are pretty close, you might get a better test result with a known metric axle so you can more easily get a good line of sight to the meshing of the threads.
Long term solution for such questions -- get a thread gauge set. They're cheap, don't take up much space in you're tool box, and are loads of fun.
Long term solution for such questions -- get a thread gauge set. They're cheap, don't take up much space in you're tool box, and are loads of fun.
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The bike looks quite similar to my 1985 Premiere - the bottom bracket and stem on that are British.
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I went and got myself a thread gauge and the thread is 1mm, i.e. Swiss, which sucks a little bit. Not too keen on dropping big dollars on a threadless bottom bracket.
Thanks for all the help in figuring this out, much appreciated.
Thanks for all the help in figuring this out, much appreciated.
#20
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Does your rear wheel have a cassette hub or a thread-on freewheel? If it has a freewheel, remove it. Thread the bottom bracket lockring onto the hub. If it fits, it's English, because I bet your rear hub is English-threaded.
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1978 was the last year that North America got Peugeots made in France. your frame was made in Canada and has
English threads. Ive never heard of a Peugeot using Swiss threads, that was a Motobecane thing
English threads. Ive never heard of a Peugeot using Swiss threads, that was a Motobecane thing
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I don't think that's right. I was a shop mechanic from 1978-1984, and I distinctly remember in 1981 unwrapping Peugeot boxes from France. In one of those boxes, a factory worker had tossed an empty box of French Gitanes cigarettes, and I kept it as a souvenir for a while.
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Also, my 1979 Peugeot PX10E Super Competition has Swiss threads (confirmed), also made in France.
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a Canadian company named ProCycle got the license to build Peugeots for the US market. Our shop was a Peugeot dealer
at the time. One year the frames were trad. lugged construction and the next year they were all lugless. The shipping boxes
still said made in France and there were made in France stickers on the bikes but there was a lot of shenanagans going on
in the early 80s. I remember Raleigh USA bringing in front and rear triangles made in Taiwan separately as bike parts, then tacking them
together in Washington and being able to slap made in USA stickers on them!
at the time. One year the frames were trad. lugged construction and the next year they were all lugless. The shipping boxes
still said made in France and there were made in France stickers on the bikes but there was a lot of shenanagans going on
in the early 80s. I remember Raleigh USA bringing in front and rear triangles made in Taiwan separately as bike parts, then tacking them
together in Washington and being able to slap made in USA stickers on them!