aharonco

What a great forum. My wife and I are looking to take a step up from our three-year old Zizzo Urbanos. We have ridden them several thousand miles of urban use, as well as on one 400-mile tour. They are great bikes for the money and convinced me that folding bikes are perfect for intermodal touring. Now I'm wanting a bike with better components and a bit more stability. I'm considering Tern, both the Verge and Link. I don't want to spend Bike Friday money and didn't think the Brompton I rode was anywhere near adequate for our varied use. The Verge has appeal except for those 451mm wheels.

Does anyone have an opinion BASED ON ACTUAL EXPEFIENCE? Thanks so much!

Jipe

For urban use and touring, ETRTO451 wheels (Tern or another brand) isn't a good option because the choice of tires is too limited and mainly narrow race tires.

Reddleman

There’s certainly plenty of opinions here! I like Tern Link D8s myself as a good base to customise, others here will shun Tern after issues they had years ago with build quality. I would stick with 406 size wheels, that size can be tough enough to find tyres for let alone 451s.

What in particular do you find is a failing of the Zizzos? That’ll help us to shape our comments.

GTA

The new TERN VERGE models all have disc brakes and 451 wheels, the older VERGE models are equipped with 406 wheels and rim brakes.
Personally, I like the older ones, especially X20 (flat bar/ v-brake) and X18 (drop bar/ caliper brake).
Here is my X18:

Reddleman

For comparison, this is my Tern Link D8. I’ve upgraded it to dropped bars which do limit its ease of foldability (but nothing that an Allen key won’t solve) and switched to Microshift Advent for a 11-42T nine speed rear block for a 20” low gear at the expense of less clearance off-road. A large rear rack and the front adaptor means that I can take large Carradice panniers and a bar bag, while I could get the Tern Spartan low riders for a second pair of panniers up front. About the only thing I’ll like to upgrade still is the original folding pedals which aren’t great for larger feet - MKS Allways Ezy Superior look tempting for removable flats.

Fentuz

This is key.

451 vs 406 is a similar situation as 700C vs 650B. The 451 usually comes in 25-451 or 28-451 which is the same ich size as 48-406 or 50-406. As other said, the 451 tyres are restricted. Then there is the issue of comfort and with the popularization of gravel riding, people are rediscovering that large tyres a better for comfort so @ equivalent rolling resistance, you will be more comfortable on 406.

I was in a similar situation with my Budget helios D7; it was limited by range, weight and comfort. As the OP, I was looking at verge x20 and x18 (and went down the rabbit hole researching the capreo groupset). I really wanted a verge X18 equivalent or a Dash P18 (I almost got both now).
For ~$300 at the time, I manage to convert my helios from a D7 spec to and X18T (drop bar) and then back the X18 (flat bar) and could do a X20 but it involved extra cost.

With this budget folder, a diyer can do a lot to convert to a premium or extra premium bike -the verge X18/x20 have the same frame as the budget verge and the Dahon MuSL had the same frame as the MuD7/P8. The main differences are weight related:
- mainly tyres and wheels, Aliexpress has litepro Aluminium wheel which are similar to the original Dahon (now Tern) Kinetix comp Pro. if memory serves, I saves 1.5kg fitting 2 kojak and 1 front kinetix com pro wheel.
- the stems :
*Seat post litepro are ~300g vs Std~700g
*TT stem (handlebar) are much lighter as mono tube, not telescopic).
*Saddle, is a personal thing but fizik told me if I wanted endurance, I should go for the larger saddle (I have a fizik gravel 160 saddle on grave bike and fabric scoop 155 on the 3 other bikes).
- Crankset, I fitted litepro before ratio weight saving per $ was good and I needed a set for 2X system. from that feature, I d advise to looking into Triathlon kit as they use big size which once fitted to a 20" give something similar to a regular bike.

The other big thing is the powertrain. you can find front derailleur bracket that allow the conversion from 1X to 2X. I tried different types and make and again the litepro are best IMO. As I said, because of cost, I went for X18 configuration (2x9) because I had a derailleur that was on a 7S bike but was design for 8 or 9 S only difference was the shifter. In the case of the zizzo Urbano, it has a altus 8 speed that works with 9speed (I run 1x9 11-36 and built a 2x9 11-28). All it needs is a alivio or sora flat shifter or sora drop depending of the handle bars.
If the OP needs more, a Tiagra 2x10 groupset would be perfect.
when it come to cassette choice, it depends of the terrain. I went for 9s 11-25 x 53/39 because I wanted close ratio. alternatively, I could go for 11-28 x 56-44 for extra speed (or 11-30)

Either way, 1x8 altus is limiting so for more involved ride, the OP needs more range,1x11 with wide range cassette or 2x9/10 with close ratio cassette.I would lean towards 2X for road riding and touring.

So it is really a question of budget:
- Spend $2500 on a tern X18 or X20 (2x9 or 2x10) or even a X11 (1x11)
- Spend $400-550 on upgrade for the Zizzo

Upgrading my helios gave me similar spec and the verge x18 10.25kg, similar range (missing the 9T rear cog which I would not use anyway) and If I could be bother to fit a rear kinetix comp pro wheel with a ultegra group set, I would get a X20 spec bike or lighter with carbon cranks like the Sram Force I have on the gravel bike.

X11 is a different beast as the hub 142 rear and 100 front

Schwinnsta

Just curious, any reason for Zizzo Urbano, over Zizzo Liberte? Liberte is lighter.

Fentuz

OP has a urbano so I assumed that what OP may upgrade. I don't believe there is much sense to buy a new bike to upgrade compared to getting a new tern X20 or X11

Schwinnsta

Ageed

tcs

No complaints over the last 14 years with our Dahon Mu D8.

The Mu is available in D8, D9, D10 and D11 models. Pick your component level.

linberl

Dahon MU is a nice bike; I have the single speed Uno and it's great. They are light, fast, and reliable, nice wheels. If a Bike Friday appeals to you, consider used (craigslist or BF facebook group) or their pre-loved models. They're easily upgraded, all standard parts, and the frames last a lifetime..
My first BF was $500 used with very entry level components and I just replaced things as I had the $ and ended up with a high-end version. Had fun upgrading, too. There's a thread here on Tern and a recall; I believe a lot of folks were disappointed with their customer service and honesty, you can find and read for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

mlau

I'm not sure if I'm derailing the thread, but if the Origami Swift becomes a thing...I'd highly recommend it (if you want a great bike with a large/flattish fold).

I have a Xootr Swift, and I love it. My main complaint is that there's no front luggage option.
If the brompton block can be added, that would be my perfect commuter bike.

mlau

I hope my prior post wasn't derailing the topic. The newer Dahon/Terns are pretty slick bikes. What do you mean by "better components?" Are you thinking more lightweight precision components like DuraAce Shimano or top of the line SRAM? Are you thinking of more rugged, or more aero, or a longer wheelbase?
I'm probably overthinking it. You could also get a used Bike Friday, Tyrell IVE, Birdy, or an Airnimal. Different bikes will be more available/cheaper based on your local markets (like getting a Tyrell IVE or Birdy in California is pretty hard).

Where are you located?

Anyways, always happy to have more people join the fold.

aharonco

Better components to me means more powerful brakes (disk perhaps) and a robust derailleur with a wide gear range, sturdy wheels and rims. We ride with 30 lbs of stuff in panniers, which was fun but tricky on our ZiZZOs, especially barreling downhill, or struggling uphill. The Tern Verge looks appealing, despite (and also because of) the 451 wheelset.

Fentuz

For the brake, discks are best but, good V brakes which good pads is good too, I ride my 20" with a moving precious ~20" load (an exited 3 yrs old boy) and the tektro brake stop me well. I recently upgrade the rear to a dual pivot caliper ( not v brake post on the rear) and I can do 10m long skid and the front V brakes can also lock the wheel.

Your altus derailleur is not bad but, sora and tiagra are better.

The range is something you need to define. with XL, you can put your current setup and put various configurations then you can make "educated" guess regarding what range spread and where (towards chimbing mode or flat speedy)

The wheel you have are amongst the strongest you we get for 20" folders; you can mainly upgrade the tyres on that.


with 15Kg in panier, you will need stronger, struddyer rack, the dahon/tern don't seen suitable enough, topeak and surly make suitable ones but, they will need some adjustments because they work with 26/29" wheels. That said, some people have used big wheel rack as an advantage as they shift the panier up giving better ground clearance.

Downhill, uphill can be a "fixable" issue. The lack of frame constraints give some instability on rough fast downhill and when pulling as you're climbing. depending of the hinge mechanism, you can tweak the cam mechanism to make it a little harder and therefore more constraint. Also, I change the telescopic handle post/stem for a TT which moves less (monoblock)



I've also seem that some people in asia fit something like a "transport bar" between the handle post/stem and seatpost to replicable a more classic diamond shape which constraints the frame


unfortunately, most of "single hinge- single beam" frame will flex when the frame is under load. As I said, some can be improved, some are better than others but it will still be there. if OP wants something sturdier folder like dahon Dash of dahon clinch are better because of the diamond frame and shorter stem (less leverage).

Fentuz

and that bare

https://weeride.co.uk/shop/weeride-b...-mounting-bar/

Reddleman

To follow up with Fentuz’s suggestion of a full-size rack better suited for the loads you’re carrying - my Tern further up the thread has a Blackburn Grid 1 rear rack fitted. It’s designed for 26”-29” wheeled bikes but its adjustable arms means that if easily fits to a 20” folder and can take a pair of 27 litre panniers.

k.garcia7

Hi GTA. I have an X18 as well and would like to stay with 20” wheels but with a wider tyre say 1.75” as opposed to the 1.1/8 butt killer tyre that it came with. …Have any advice? Also, what rim size do you have on your X? Much appreciate-thanks!

Fentuz

the most likely solution is to swap your calipers for something like Dia Compe 806 and fit 406 with 19mm internal width wheel (kinetix comp pro can take 35-406 max like kojak). the 806 calipers are longer and clear 47-406 tyres easily.
Have you checked the clearances?