TravelVagabond

Hello fellow travelers! I'm looking to acquire my first touring Bike and was hoping for some advice from your Expertise I made a list of models that goes as follows:

[ ] Cube Touring Pro/ Travel Pro Trapeze

[ ] Salsa Fargo

[ ] Kona Sutra (SE)

[ ] Fuji Touring

[ ] Trek 520 Disc/ 920

[ ] Giant Toughroad SLR1

[ ] Salsa Marrakesh

[ ] Surly Disc Trucker

[ ] Cinelli Hobootleg

[ ] Genesis Tour de Fer 30

I'm looking for the best value for price, a bike which is good to handle for a novice, one that is not a pure road bike but can perform well off-terrain as well, I'm not looking to climb steep mountains with it or ride in more extreme conditions, I'm looking for a reliable and comfortable bike which I can ride in a more upright seating position without having to make too many adjustments. I was looking at the Kona Sutra Classic model since my local dealer will have one available in a couple of weeks for a test ride. But I was hoping to get some insight from the collective experience and hopefully make an informed right decision. Your help would be greatly appreciated! 🙏

All the best,

Mario

stardognine

Might I suggest another one, not on your list? The Soma Saga gets great reviews, especially for "upright" riding. I have an early non-disc version, and like it a lot. I imagine the disc version would be close to perfect. 🙂

But I'm not familiar with a lot of the ones on your list, definitely get opinions on those, from people familiar with them.

TravelVagabond

Thanks a lot for the recommendation! I didn't hear about it, but will definitely look into it and get further info. Have a great weekend! Cheers

M Rose

The 520 Grando checks all of your boxes. It’s an agile creature that is at home both on the pavement as well as in the dirt. The geometry fits well for days in the saddle but still sporty enough to conquer the twisties on the way down the back side of a steep climb.

as a novice rider myself, my Grando has completely replaced my Hybrid Trek Verve 2 Disk for almost all of my cycling activities.

Tourist in MSN

I did not look at any of those. I am not going to try to do your research for you.

1 - The best bike is the bike that fits.

2 - Low gears for climbing hills are important. But you said nothing about the type of touring you plan to do or the amount of weight you would expect to carry. And, some people naturally pedal with a cadence that is above or below average, that also can change how low your gearing needs to get.

3 - Off-road, you likely are looking at a minimum of 35 or 37mm tires, maybe wider depending on the terrain. If you want fenders (mudguards), the frame will need to be able to accommodate them along with your desired tire width.

4 - When you say "more upright", you will have to decide how to define that yourself.

5 - You should assume you have to buy a new saddle and maybe new pedals after you get the bike.

6 - A lot of people tour without front panniers on a low rider rack, but a lot of people have panniers up front. If you plan to travel with a light load and do not need front panniers, that expands the population of good bikes that you could use.

Your profile is silent on if you are in North America or Europe or someplace else. Different regions have different characteristics for a "typical" touring bike, for example many if not most continental touring bikes will have flat upright handlebars and most from N America will have drop bars.

Polaris OBark

I have the disc version. Sadly, they no longer appear to be in production. (Also, when I got it, it was just the frame and fork, not a complete bike.)

Steve B.

You could likely be fine on any of the bikes you've listed. Big question is do you have a time frame for purchase ?, are you planning a trip ?, and are you planning on buying at a local shop where you can test ride and what can they sell you and when. As Tourist stated, I'm not doing any research on any of those. Supply is still a big problem and I wonder of everything you've listed, what can you actually get your hands on ?.

phughes

No one can answer this question for you. In regards to an upright position, in order to get the bars as high, or higher than the seat, be sure to get a big enough frame. If you are between sizes, go up rather than go down in size, that will enable you to get the bars higher without needing to have a high stack of spacers. For example, I have a Surly LHT, the old style. I could use a 54cm or a 56 cm frame. I went with the 56 cm frame so I could easily get my bars the same height as the seat, without using too many spacers. I also ordered the steerer tube uncut, so I could get the bars where I wanted them, then cut the steerer tube, later.

dvdwmth

Soma Saga is discontinued, but you might be able to find a used one. I have one and I'm quite pleased with it. It is very stable when loaded up and i really appreciate the tall steerer tube. I don't think I'd recommend it for anything rougher than gravel though. Its stable on the road but it doesn't have the control you need for off road.

If you want something that works well for "off-terrain" you'll probably want something more like a mountain frame. Soma has a couple, Velo orange, Surly. Lots out there but I've not owned one. Its kind of a trade off. If you want something that is comfortable and stable when loaded, you're not going to have the control you want off road.

There are some basic things you need to decide on if you haven't.

Do you want to use classic panniers or bikepacking bags?

Classic Touring bikes can feel slow and non responsive. Are you ok with this? There are bikes that sacrifice some of the stability and comfort to be more fun to ride but that still have lots of braze ons. Look at the soma wolverine for an example. I suspect from your post that you might not be looking for a classic tourer.

What kind of trips do you plan to do. Weeks or months, or weekends. How much do you need to carry. Long trips with big loads are more suited to classic tourers.

Keep in mind fit is SUPER important for comfort on long rides. If you don't have experience then you really need to find a dealer who is willing to help you get a bike that fits you.

TravelVagabond

Thanks for the information, Im also between 54 and 56. The 520 Grando looks really good. As mentioned on here before I'll have to look for which bike I can actually get my hands on to test drive, for now the classic Kona Sutra is the one I'll try. I think Cube is easily accessible as well since it's a German manufacturer and I'm situated in Austria. But don't know how much touring specialized they are, seems they offer some solid entry-level models though. Probably that'd be good enough for starters. Thanks for your advice! Cheers

TravelVagabond

In the beginning I'll stick to weekends and a week or two in the surroundings of my region. There's many bike roads around here that are well connected. Not too much rubble, mostly flat surfaced. Like I said I'm not looking too much at off-road, forest rides or climbing steep mountains with heavy baggage. I think with off-terrain I just meant not asphalted main streets. I'm not comfortable on asphalt roads in traffic, comfort and stability are more suited than bikepacking adventures for now. I think that those bike roads will suit me well in the beginning.

Which type of baggage transportation system is more advisable for this kind of touring, panniers or bike bags? I plan on taking as little luggage as possible with me, like said not go out on a wild ride, hopefully the local dealer I contacted will be able to help me with the fit. I opted for the Classic Kona Sutra for now and be test riding it in a couple of weeks. It comes with a front pannier, I'm wondering about the placement of the luggage and how it affects the quality of the ride.

Thanks for the helpful information and points to consider 👍

Steve B.

Now that we know you are in Austria, I would recommend looking at Koga bikes in Holland. They make a line of well equipped trekking bikes. Most seem to be flat bar handlebar bikes, which is a popular choice among Euro touring bike's where drop bar is more common in the US. They've been around long time, used to have a arraignment to have Miyata (Japan) manufacturer their steel bikes, they've been making their own for a long time now.

KOGA | E-bike | City & Touringbikes | Trekking | Mountainbike | Race

TravelVagabond

I'm in western Central Europe, Austria, lots of mountains around which I don't plan on cycling up any time soon. I'll stick to bike roads in my region, fairly flat, not too much gravel, avoiding asphalt roads with car traffic as much as possible.

I was looking at the Kona Sutra SE which has 3x10 gears but the bike seems sold out/unavailable in my area. I'll see how the Classic Sutra handles in a couple of weeks when I test ride it. It comes with a drop bar and has 2x sti integrated shifters which I'm a bit worried about because I have no experience with it, tried a race bike with sti shifters at my local dealership - it was bad; thought the Sutra SE thumb shifters might've suited me better.

I'm not planning on taking a lot of luggage with me, the Classic Sutra comes with a lowrider front rack; which option should I be looking at to transport my stuff, bike bags or panniers? Do you think the Classic Sutra 2x10 gears is enough for this type of road and trip? I like to go fast, meaning accelerate when the conditions allow it, but in general I'd say average riding speed. Weekends and a week or two at most in the beginning around where I live, no forest bikepacking outdoor survival adventures; the Sutra has 700x40c tires. any other model/brand recommendations are welcome.

Thanks for the advice and information! Cheers

Steve B.

Sounds like you are doing what we call here in the U.S. "credit card touring". In other words, NOT a self supported tour with camping and all that gear. Sleeping in inns and hotels, eating in restaurants. Often carrying a change of cycle clothing, plus "street" clothes for going out to dinner. That generally means a lot less gear and fewer pannier needed to carry gear as you have no tent, sleeping bag, stove or food. You can usually get away with a rear rack and 2 panniers for credit card'ing.

For this kind of riding, your options for a bike completely changes as you no longer need a heavier touring bike that is designed to carry a heavy front and rear load. Thus you could get away with a "sport touring" bike or a gravel bike, There's likely to be a lot more options in gravel bikes as that's the recent fad. My Cannondale Topstone is ideal for credit card tours as it has eyelets to install a rear rack, the wheels are stronger than on a lighter road racing bike, it can accept wider tires (has disc brakes) and has pretty wide gearing with e 30/46 crank and an 11-34 cassette, so I can getup hills. It's pretty ideal for non supprted touring.

Options for bags are rear pannier (Ortelib style) that mount on a rear rack, or the bikepacking style. These are specific bags designed to install on a mt. bike that has no eyelets for racks (Google bikepacking bags, lots of manufacturers of this stuff) . Typically a large duffle bag that mounts in front of the handlebar, often 24": x 8" or so, then an under seat bag with an internal frame, often is a similar size to the front duffle, then a frame bag designed to install inside the triangular frame. You can get a lot of stuff in these bags, they save weight due to no metal racks needed to mount them, they are all designed to strap onto the seat and handlebar. You cannot carry as much gear as with front and rear pannier, but you may not need to.

Tourist in MSN

Not sure what you mean by bike bags?

Touring, I use four panniers, handlebar bag, sometimes another bag on top of the rear rack. Much of this is for camping equipment.

Some people stay indoors every night, they do not need camping gear, thus are more likely to get by with two panniers. With this lighter load, many other bikes become viable options too.

I prefer a triple crank for touring on a derailleur bike. You might not plan on any steep hills, but such hills will find you.

You might also want to look at Koga and Santos brands.

TravelVagabond

I was looking into Rose and Canyon gravel bikes, really great deals for the price since purchased straight from the manufacturer but sport gravel bikes seem limited IMO because they're not meant to be taken on longer tours

I'm trying to think ahead since longer tours is what's on my mind once I jump that beginner's phase. My budget is limited for now and I'm not planning on getting different bikes for different occasions, that's why I was thinking about getting a touring bike from the get-go

a self supported bike trip for several months isn't realistic for me as a beginner but that's what I'm aiming for, I'd have to get more into maintenance and get some experience first, learn about spare parts and equipment; I'm planning on a vanlife type of setup combining work and leisure; for now I have a few home bases in Europe, I'll reconsider the gravel bike option but I think cycling these long distances on a sport/racing bike wouldn't cut it for me in the long run.

Thanks for the help! Cheers

TravelVagabond

Thanks, I'll check them out! Koga I heard about and saw Santos mentioned a few times on here. Panniers are bike bags actually, I thought they're different terms. I guess switching the racks is also an option depending on the trip planned. I'm trying to find a good bike considering durability and reliability on long distance trips, but also read that touring bikes that are not loaded with enough equipment may feel somewhat curious to ride. I think after a while, once the tent, gear and other luggage is added, I'll definitely have enough stuff to carry around on sturdy touring bike. Cheers

Tourist in MSN

Some people that have suggested that a touring bike did not ride very well when unloaded, I am not really sure what they were talking about. A lot of people have bought touring bikes to use for commuting, as they have a lot of rack options. And touring bikes usually are built to hold a straight line quite well, and a commuter on the way home after a long day at work might want one that holds a straight line quite well too. Touring bikes do not have highly responsive steering, which is probably what some are commenting on. My folding bike has very responsive steering, which is not always a good thing.

phughes

Best of luck finding a new bike. It's great to have choices, but sometimes that make it difficult to decide. They are all good bikes though, so whatever you choose you will be fine.

Yan 

None of these I'm afraid, as all have disc brakes. Having to constantly protect the disc from being bent is not something I'm willing to deal with. Flying, throwing your bike into the back of a truck, into the luggage compartment of a bus, checking it into the luggage car of a train, etc are all situations where your bike will be handled by strangers, who will have no hesitation about stacking your bike next to, on top of, or underneath a mountain of other luggage. Apart from when flying, removing the discs is not practical. Sourcing a replacement wheel after crashing may also be difficult, likewise for spare parts. For these reasons I will never buy a disc touring bike. Non-disc touring bikes are now becoming rare. My last two touring bike purchases have been custom frames. You could also look in the used market.

If you only ever tour in your home country or in first world areas, then by all means go for a disc brake bike. Just understand that it won't be ideal for all country destinations. At best it is a major inconvenience. At worst it could leave you stranded for weeks waiting for spare parts to arrive by mail.

M Rose

I would be more afraid of my spokes getting bent or cassette getting damaged then a bent disk on my Trek 520 (can’t attest to any other disk). The 520 disk is almost 2 times as thick as a wheel spoke. So the hubs and spokes are going to get damaged before the disk. Most bike shops carry Disk parts these days, so I wouldn’t be too worried about getting replacement brake parts, besides you can adapt a disk to a rim brake setup in an emergency.

I would be way more worried about getting parts to fix a failed bearing or derailer than a failed mechanical disk brake.

kstephens

If I were looking to be more upright - I would be looking for something that comes with flat bars with MTB/Trigger shifters. It seems there will be more options for a swap out to alt bars to get you in a more upright position with more hand position options. Or like said above - with drop bars, upsize the frame if in between (but still be comfy), un-cut steer, add some spacers and mess with a shorter (don't go too crazy) stem with maybe more rise. This is what I did, and is working for now - but I am not getting any younger and will look at building my next bike with something different than drop bars. I wouldn't shy away from the disk brakes now with a new bike - they are no longer the new thing, and aren't going away. I still like my cantilevers, but I am not a light guy, and under load going downhill - I white knuckle it on occassion - but under load my LHT is a tank and it does fine. I just think parts and self service on discs are just going to get easier and more readily available.

Aside from that I can't comment on off road touring - my LHT is great on pavement, hills, and decent on packed gravel and worn down/dry packed dirt - but outside of that I would look for something that can support wider tires with fenders in case you get in a sloppy riding situation.

Steve B.

Agree. Im not seeing that bent disc rotors is any kind of concern that would have me desiring a V or canti brake bike.

Yan 

Lay your bike on its side and drop a gallon water jug on the spokes. In all likelihood if your wheels are well built the jug will bounce off and everything will be fine. Maybe a couple of turns with a spoke wrench and you're good to go. Now try the same but this time aim the gallon jug at your brake rotor. Replace "jug" with "Indian woman's luggage". Next thing you know you're squatted on the ground at a bus station in India, desperately bending your rotor back and forth with an adjustable wrench, wondering how you're going to find a bike shop that sells disk rotors where the average local annual wage is $1400. You get in touch with a bike shop in Mumbai, and spend the next week wandering around an Indian village until your spare part arrives in the mail.

Which doesn't sound too bad actually.

M Rose

your spokes are still going to bend before the rotor does. Besides, since the majority of bikes come with rotors these days, getting replacement parts even in third world countries isn’t like it was several years ago. Your Indian story makes zero sense since most bike components are actually manufactured in or around India.

I could see this (part supply) being an issue in say the Sahara, or the Australian Outback, or other remote areas like that… Maybe even some remote places here in the US, but for the most part would be non existent. Like I said earlier, there are way harder parts to source than a break component in these third world countries. And to get back on the road all that would be needed is a simple brake conversion from disk to some kind of rim brake… shoot I saw a guy in Afghanistan stopping his bike with a stick.

After owning a bike with disk brakes, I will never go back to a cantilever brake again as a permanent braking solution.