mihlbach

I just acquired a new Litespeed Ultimate Disk with Ultegra Di2 R8170. Inexplicably, the bike came stocked with a Dura Ace cassette, which, as the larger cogs are made of titanium, is not as durable as Ultegra. I don't know the reason for the upgrade. Perhaps there is a shortage of Ultegra cassettes.

In the past, I have only used all-steel cassettes, and I have never bothered with complicated chain rotation schemes to increase cassette life, as the money saved is not worth the extra hassle. I don't count how many chains I normally get per cassette, but probably 3-4 chains per cassette as long as I replace each chain before 0.75%.

But now that I have an obscenely overpriced cassette that I did not anticipate owning, perhaps it will be worthwhile to attempt to stretch its life as long as I can. I have heard of people rotating between 2-4 chains at regular intervals to maximize cassette life. Can someone here who has tried such as strategy give me their plan?

How many chains do you have in the rotation?
How often do you rotate chains?...as a set number of miles or at certain intervals of measurable wear?
In practice, does rotating chains actually seem to extend cassette longevity, or does it seem like a fruitless exercise that causes more work with no tangible benefit?

Psimet2001 

I will go with fruitless exercise with no tangible benefit.

The reality is that a cassette will last a really long time especially if you are swapping chains frequently - no rotating them but swapping them out with new ones. In that situation a few more chains and you'd be better buying a new cassette.

Yes I understand the DA Cassette conundrum. In general though it will last as long as it's going to last. Ride it and enjoy it. It's Ti on the larger cogs because of the increased tooth load helps delay wear so it's not horrible with wear but it will wear faster as you know. If the price of it really bugs you riding it then just take it off and sell it as a used cassette with little wear. Take the proceeds and buy a new Ultegra one and a new chain - that's what you'd get for it odds are. In the future just replace it with an Ultegra one. done.

So...not worth working up anything. Just lube it, clean it. Replace the chain. You don't have to wait until .79 - swap it at .4. You'll find the cassette will last long enough.

Koyote

Psimet2001 already wrote everything I would write, so I'll just add this: you got the D/A upgrade for free. Ride it, replace the chain when it needs replacing, and enjoy it. It'll likely last about as long as an Ultegra cassette would've, anyway.

shelbyfv

Take advantage of the temporarily xtra lite bike. Go set some Strava KOMs.

cyclezen

my take on cassettes and chains
I've run alloy cogs and the deciding factors on cog wear were 2 major areas
1. not using a chain much beyond .5 and changing when close to .75
2. cogs more commonly used - usually the middle cogs in the range, were the major wear points. when one could replace individual cogs, the cog group could be used for longer period.
but mostly it was replacing the chain early enough to not get much 'wear'/stretch.
another consideration:
chains are made of much more wear resistant materials than cogs, certainly alloy cogs - so over time which component will likely experience the greatest wear? most used cogs...
If the most used cogs are steel, you'll likely get longer wear life, alloy cogs, lower life.
you didn;t note whether your setup is 11 or 12 spd - but in either case the upper end 11 spd chains are quite pricey, 12 spd are all pricey - keeping a working supply of 3-4 chain sets of either group is a very expensive option (I'd rather buy some good tire supply when prices are good...)
and then you have to keep track of each chainset and their use/level. Sounds more complicated, unless you have your own personal equipment tech...
If the cassette you have has the 'softer' cogs in the big sizes - how often are you in those cogs? and larger cogs generally show less wear (given all setting and chain factors are optimized) than the smaller cogs; because they have more chain wrap and thereby more of the chain tension distributed to more teeth...
I would
check the chain more often, and along more sections of the chain, and replace when somewhere betwen .5 & .75 wear as opposed to .75 & 1 % (which is what I do now...)
also clean the chain more often
Enjoy the Ride
Yuri

SpedFast

I keep a spare chain waxed and ready to go because of salt and sand conditions being horrendous forcing me to swap every couple hundred miles. I could accomplish the same thing with one chain and keeping it clean and waxed, but then the bike is motionless if I don't get right on it. In short, keep your chain clean and lubed and just go for it and your cassette will thank you. Enjoy

SoSmellyAir

If the Dura-Ace cassette is the 12-28 holy grail version (i.e., unavailable in Ultegra and 105), I would ride it and enjoy the perfect spacing.

Otherwise, I would promptly install an Ultegra cassette (because I have a couple of extra ones), then clean and place the Dura-Ace cassette in a plexiglass case as a museum piece, just so you can tell your grandkids the story of how during the COVID pandemic bike component shortage circa 2021, you got a free Dura-Ace cassette upgrade.

Litespud

I run Campag 10sp, using Veloce all-steel cassettes and KMC chains. When I replace the cassette I buy 3 new chains. I use wax, so I degrease the new chains and wax them. I run each chain for ~300 miles, then swap in a fresh chain. I usually give the cassette and rings a stiff brushing between chains to remove wax flakes etc. When I’ve gone through a full chain rotation, I give them all a brush to remove road dirt and grit, then wax them again and start the cycle once more. The only time I prematurely swap out a chain is if it gets good and soaked - wax won’t stop the chain rusting - so I change to a fresh chain and dry off the wet chain. I usually get 2 years (~12000 miles) from a cassette/chain set, then replace the lot. I don’t measure chains - maybe I could get more mileage out of them, but I’m happy with 2yr/12k. I may change my tune if/when I switch to 12sp, with >$100 cassettes and $50 chains 😟. I replace rings as needed if they’re noisy with a new chain. I used to run the same cycle with wet-lubed chains, but I would clean the chain as soon(ish) as it was rotated out, so one chain on the bike, one for cleaning and one clean ready to go. Wax is just way cleaner.

mihlbach

Haha, thanks for the laugh.
For the record, the cassette is a 11-30, 12 speed.

Koyote

This thread jogged my memory. Many moons ago, a friend of mine was cleaning out his garage when I drove up to his house. He came walking down the driveway with a pair of older, but almost unused, wheels: D/A 10sp hubs laced to Open Pro rims, fitted with a D/A cassette. He'd ridden 'em maybe a hundred miles before putting something else on the bike. He just handed them to me and said, "Here, take 'em." After the usual protestations, and his continued insistence, I took 'em home. Slapped them on a bike and started riding, thinking how lucky I was to have Dura Ace.

The idea of fetishizing the stuff never crossed my mind. I've still got the wheels on a bike; the cassette has been replaced with something friendlier to my now-hillier locale, but it worked fine last time I used it.

eduskator

+1 and +1.

DaveSSS 

I have two 12 speed bikes and alternate the use of 8 chains between them. I use a home made paraffin based liquid lube and take a chain off about every fourth week or 600 miles, for cleaning. My chains are all hanging on a peg, so the next chain to be used is at the front and the newly cleaned chain goes to the back of the line. Chain rotation ensures that you'll never get new-chain skip and miss out on several thousand miles of use because the third chain wasn't replaced soon enough.

If chain rotation doesn't appeal to you, replace at .5%, but keep the chains for a second use instead of tossing them. You'll also find that if new-chain skip only occurs on one or two sprockets, a chain with only a few hundred miles of break-in use won't skip on those sprockets.

Branko D

I use DA chains and cassettes on my road bike. Lube them with quality stuff (Squirt at minimum) and periodically clean the chain and just don't fret about it. It's stuff which will eventually wear, but at three chain replacements that eventually is at over 20000 km of riding. If it was a big deal to buy a DA cassette every couple of years, I'd just use Ultegra rather than faff with rotating chains.

prj71

I've noticed that new chains don't mesh well with used cassettes and chainrings. Makes some funny noises when putting a brand new chain on used cassettes and chainrings. For that reason when things go bad...I replace chain, chainrings and cassette all at the same time.

Psimet2001 

I've got a 10sp 11-23 Dura-Ace cassette I bargained for many years ago. It sits in my cassette drawer just so I can show it to people. Same with Gen 1 SRAM Red 11-23 cassette. Ooo... and a corn cob old DA freewheel I have floating around. 6 speed I believe.

Psimet2001 

This only happens when you've run your chain for too long. Chain, cassette and chainrings will wear together. When you let the chain elongate too much it will wallow out the teeth on the cassette and chainrings to match. Everything seems OK until you put a new chain on then it runs like crap if at all. If you replaced chains way more frequently then everything else would last many times longer.

SoSmellyAir

OK, my advice does not apply to 12 speed road groupset components.

I started road cycling in the 11 speed era and so will be stuck here for a while.

mihlbach

Before moving to 12 speed, I was using 13-25 10 speed cassettes with a standard double just to close in all the gaps. My decision to finally go to 12 speed has a lot to do with me not being able to easily find more 13-25 cassettes. The gap between 17 and 19 in my new 12 speed 11-30 cassette is bothersome. I really hope Shimano comes out with an 11-28 12 speed cassette soon so I can fill in that gap.

SoSmellyAir

I went through a similar issue with respect to 11 speed cassettes:

a. With an 11-28 cassette, I miss having the 16T cog, because the jump from 17T to 15T is usually too much;
b. A 12-28 cassette -- which ditches the 11T cog to include a 16T cog -- would be ideal for me, but is only available in Dura-Ace;
c. I unsuccessfully tried to make my own Frankenstein Ultegra 12-28 cassette by combining two Ultegra (11-28 & 12-25) cassettes;
d. Now I use an Ultegra 12-25 cassette by itself, and occasionally wish I can have a 28T cog instead of the 18T cog.

Branko D

Possibly a sub-compact would be an ideal choice if gaps towards the, well, fatter end of the cassette are a concern. It'd enable use of conventional cassettes, while being better suited to your speeds, with a straighter chainline.

Dave Mayer

I have a Record cassette with the 4 largest cogs being titanium. But I only wear out the 17 and 19 tooth loose steel cogs. So I buy inexpensive Veloce cassettes (1/5 the price) with the same cogs, and swap them into the Record cassette when necessary. Sorry Campagnolo... From what I can tell, the cogs are identical, with some difference in the finish/coating. I assume that whatever coating the manufacturer has applied to the cogs will be ground off within a few rides.

My local bike Co-op has a few hundred pounds of used cassettes and loose cogs. I found an 11-speed Ultegra cassette with no wear in the big 4 cogs, but kaput smaller cogs. So I bought this for $5, also bought a 11-speed cassette off Fleabay for $20 which gave me new smaller 7 cogs, and mated them together. Shifts great.

Cassettes and rings are expensive. I don't spend much time fussing over chains; buy cheap chains and replace often.

cyclezen

I believe I now own all the NOS 10 spd Ultegra 13-25 cassettes on the Planet !!! moo ha ha !!!
... problem is that I find that I now also need a 27 or 28 ...
... I just don;t get the 11 thing on cassettes being used by normal humans? Ok, an 11 DuraAce on a suitable cog range, for the super-human or juicers, but 11s in 105 or even ultegra ??? iff'n you can't do it in a 12 or 13, it's certainly not gonna happen with an 11...
But 16 and 18 are always cogs any journeyman rider will really like and desire...
Bike fashion is inscrutable
Ride On
Yuri

dabac

On my winter commuter I alternate between two chains in 300 mile interval. Or when the chain needs a clean and a lube, whichever comes first.
Seems to work fine.
Since changes coincides with the chain needing some attention anyhow, it doesn’t add that much work.
I tried 3-chain rotation earlier, but the only advantage I noticed was the added interval between chain clean and relube sessions.

prj71

What time frame is that? 1 year? 2 years? 3 years?

I bought a new hard tail mountain bike in 2016. I replaced the chain, chainring and cassette for the first time in 2021. So after 5 years of doing nothing...Cost was $200 to replace all 3 parts.

Currently I'm still using the original cassette, chain and chainring on my fatbike that I purchased in January 2018.

GhostRider62

SRAM 11-28 has the 16.....11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19.....plus, the red version lasts forever