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Wheels - lighter weight vs aero

Old 02-06-23, 08:59 PM
  #51  
beng1
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Originally Posted by smd4
We get that you donít care for high quality. Stop trying to tell others that cheap is the only way to go.
So nobody on this forum ever tells anyone with older equipment they need something newer? LOOOOOOOOOOOL
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Old 02-06-23, 09:06 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by venturi95
^ Cool looking wheels, and mighty light! I'm not trying to start an argument, but do any pro tour teams ride Berd spokes?
I am not aware of any team or racer specifically that uses Berd spokes. But thats a function of my dis-interest in racing or competitive sports of any kind in general.

I'll refer you to here: https://berdspokes.com/pages/technology

They are UCI legal however. Here is a quote from the BERD FAQ page:
Can I race with Berd Spokes?

Yes! Berd spokes are legal for racing. In fact, the UCI, which regulates professional cycling, has specifically approved Berd spokes, so you can race Berd spokes from local crits to the Tour de France. Send us a postcard!
As to the rest of this:
The big advantage for sew ups, beside modest weight savings, seems to me to be:
--Smooth pavement. I don't follow professional road cycling, but what little of it I see looks like it likes place on really smooth roads. Skinny, high-pressure tires would be fastest here, as proven by the same experiments as the argument for wide and soft on the rough stuff, no?
It's the right pressure for the surface that matters. A polished hardwood velodrome will have a different hysteresis breakpoint than chip seal.
--If it is rough, you can imagine being stuck in the middle of the peloton getting dragged over crap pavement at 30 plus m.p.h. I raced in the 1990s and saw clincher flats frequently in that situation. Do modern tubeless rims carrying low pressure tires get beat to failure? I have no idea.
IME rims beat & abused from crashing in to rocks is more common with tubeless running low pressure than tubed with high pressure. But just because a pince flat happened doesn't necessarily mean the rim got damaged. Abuse is abuse, afterall. I'd take 28-32mm of clearance between the road surface and the rim edge over 19mm any day.

--Want to go aero? Make my deep aero wheels sew-up.
I like my dirt road and MTB tubless set-ups just fine, love them, they're fabulous. I would like to try a modern road tubless set-up, maybe a Go Fund Me account is in order? JK!
$850-ish for the Berd build service. Depending on how you account for the shipping. Neither of my Berd wheel sets exceeded $2500 in total with judicious selection of parts. There are, of course many road tubeless rims available at a variety of price points that can be built with whatever spokes & hubs suit your fancy. I say go for it!

Last edited by base2; 02-07-23 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 02-06-23, 09:17 PM
  #53  
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I'll refer you to here: https://berdspokes.com/pages/technology[/QUOTE]
I saw nothing there that addresses my bullet points.
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Old 02-06-23, 09:34 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by venturi95
I saw nothing there that addresses my bullet points.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I was editing.
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Old 02-06-23, 09:49 PM
  #55  
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.
...there really are some strong opinions on this topic. I have nothing to contribute, I'm just here to work off some of the popcorn.
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Old 02-06-23, 09:53 PM
  #56  
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Speaking of spokes…

I have TaperLock bladed carbon spokes on my Hunt wheels. From their site, “greater than 450kgf max tensile strength, or about 50% more than conventional stainless spokes”. 6% more laterally responsive than identical steel spoked wheels, with significantly less weight. Further benefiting from the high-frequency vibration absorption capabilities of carbon fibre in the UD spokes, as well as the rim.”
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Old 02-07-23, 04:35 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer


The bicycle trades: they exist to help the industry sell expensive bling to dentists.. What are they going to say? Wish I could find the interview with the head of Vittoria, who expressed some frustration that much of the pro peloton is on their latex tube tubular tires, often relabeled.
Below is a summary of what tyres actually won each stage of the 2022 TDF

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features...won-with-what/

More than half the stages were won on tubeless tyres, including Tom Pidcock’s epic win on Alpe d’Huez. Tubulars are not totally dead, winning 5 stages, but they are not the dominant choice anymore.

For ordinary club riders/racers there isn’t much point in riding tubulars when you can be just as competitive on clinchers, tubeless or tubed.

On rougher roads, wider tubeless now completely dominate. The last 2 Paris Roubaix were won on tubeless. The very same Contis I use for my daily rides on mixed roads. GP5000S TR for the win!

BTW have you found that interview yet? I wonder how many years ago it was

Last edited by PeteHski; 02-07-23 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 02-07-23, 07:02 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Below is a summary of what tyres actually won each stage of the 2022 TDF

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features...won-with-what/

More than half the stages were won on tubeless tyres, including Tom Pidcockís epic win on Alpe díHuez. Tubulars are not totally dead, winning 5 stages, but they are not the dominant choice anymore.

For ordinary club riders/racers there isnít much point in riding tubulars when you can be just as competitive on clinchers, tubeless or tubed.

On rougher roads, wider tubeless now completely dominate. The last 2 Paris Roubaix were won on tubeless. The very same Contis I use for my daily rides on mixed roads. GP5000S TR for the win!

BTW have you found that interview yet? I wonder how many years ago it was
Thanks for the actual third-party info. Let's see how the internet reacts to facts.
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Old 02-07-23, 07:12 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Jughed
So I guess you ride a Huffy? If not, why?
That is poorly worded. But it is always easy for me to say why I take any action because I take them for practical, logical reasons that are an extension of the phenomenon of life itself, not for reasons which do not exist outside the ego.
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Old 02-07-23, 07:25 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by beng1
That is poorly worded. But it is always easy for me to say why I take any action because I take them for practical, logical reasons that are an extension of the phenomenon of life itself, not for reasons which do not exist outside the ego.
Well good for you there Nietzsche.

I buy crap because I want to.
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Old 02-07-23, 07:27 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by beng1
So nobody on this forum ever tells anyone with older equipment they need something newer? LOOOOOOOOOOOL
Who is telling you that you need newer equipment? I missed that if it happened.
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Old 02-07-23, 07:36 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
.
...there really are some strong opinions on this topic. I have nothing to contribute, I'm just here to work off some of the popcorn.
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Old 02-07-23, 07:43 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Thanks for the actual third-party info. Let's see how the internet reacts to facts.
My prediction is that they will say itís all a lie/conspiracy by Big Bike and that they were really all riding re-labelled Vittoria tubulars. Looking at the photos, Ineos even went to the trouble of moulding Conti tread patterns into their re-labelled tubs. Attention to detail as always!

At Paris Roubaix they had a muddied up fake winning bike with wide Conti tubeless tyres clearly fitted. The real winning bike with narrow tubulars was quickly hidden at the race finish.

Alternative reality is on trend around the world at the moment.
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Old 02-07-23, 07:48 AM
  #64  
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Rolling resistance is only trivial in the lab.

Crr on real roads is far higher than on steel drums and the numbers are far, far from trivial.

With the best tires on my local roads, the best Crr that I have measured is 0.004 with 0.005 more typical and 0.006 on chip seal more like it. At least 30% of my energy goes to the tires. YMMV
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Old 02-07-23, 09:28 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Fredo76
I guess I ain't got none of that 'sense' stuff...


Looking Forward With Tubulars

I'll be OK though.
This looks like a tough situation. The Big dogs are on the porch. So much for the old saying. What do you do now?
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Old 02-07-23, 11:31 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by seypat
This looks like a tough situation. The Big dogs are on the porch. So much for the old saying. What do you do now?
We're gonna need a bigger porch.
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Old 02-07-23, 11:57 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by beng1
That is poorly worded. But it is always easy for me to say why I take any action because I take them for practical, logical reasons that are an extension of the phenomenon of life itself, not for reasons which do not exist outside the ego.
I've always found that smart people who want to be understood strive to communicate as plainly as possible while still being able to convey complex ideas.

Just putting that out there.
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Old 02-07-23, 12:06 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by beng1
That is poorly worded. But it is always easy for me to say why I take any action because I take them for practical, logical reasons that are an extension of the phenomenon of life itself, not for reasons which do not exist outside the ego.
I don't. I make purchases without needing to justify them with an improved performance metric, or other practical justification. Aesthetics matter to me, and are an important part of my cycling experience. I enjoy looking at hot bikes in the same way I enjoy looking at hot sports cars. They excite me. A bike that is enjoyable to look at is a bike that I want to go ride. I have no issue with replacing a perfectly good seat and grips/tape with the same ones in a different color, just because I think it looks better on my bike. I have no problem with people who feel the need for a practical justification, but sometimes other people have their own reasons.
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Old 02-07-23, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by beng1
That is poorly worded. But it is always easy for me to say why I take any action because I take them for practical, logical reasons that are an extension of the phenomenon of life itself, not for reasons which do not exist outside the ego.
This is actually some amazing comedy here.

Dude, what you see as "practical" is what your ego sees as worthwhile. There is no Universal Scale of Utility you are following,. You are deciding what You think is good, and defining it as "practical." This is what we all do. You are then disrespecting everyone who does not use your value system, which is even more comical .... but whatever.

"Logical" is another word which is user-defined. There are different values we each assign to different things, and those values dictate what is "logical" to us.

is it "logical" to marry some particular person? Do you make such decisions based on "logic"? Of course not. Do you consider health, heredity, net worth, potential future earnings, and evaluate people on a ten-point scale and chose the one with a higher score? No ... you go with whoever makes your thing swing.

Yes, in a lot of cases I make detailed "cost-benefit" analysis charts before making important decisions .... but "benefit" is Perceived benefit. What I find beneficial you might not, and vice versa. There is no universal scale.

In fact, unless you ride a bicycle purely for utility---transport, because it is more efficient than walking and you do not have a car or motorcycle or useful public transit-0--then the entire decision to buy and ride a bicycle is ego-driven. It is Non-Utilitarian. It is time, money, and energy spent with no tangible benefit.

I am sorry, but your posts Reek of ego, of smug self-satisfaction and self-perceived superiority ... and this claim that you are entirely logical and ego-free is the most humorous yet.

Anyway ... i hope you enjoy riding, and I hope you enjoy posting here (but wait--where is the utilitarian benefit to posting here? Surely you do not post here to ... satisfy your ego? I mean, you don't even have one. ) Please, though .... if you normally hang out with people who buy the line you are selling, realize that there are people out there who are approximately as smart as you are, and they see your stuff, just like you see ours.

None of us are all that much better or worse ... and when the guys who really don't post here to inflate their egos do post, it really stands out because their posts are full of information .... not self-aggrandizement and deprecation or others.

Yeah, I am as or more guilty than most ... but I am not so blind that I cannot see myself, and since I can see myself, I can also see the rest of y'all.

Seriously ... who are we trying to fool?
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Old 02-07-23, 01:43 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by beng1
But it is always easy for me to say why I take any action because I take them for practical, logical reasons that are an extension of the phenomenon of life itself, not for reasons which do not exist outside the ego.
I like shiny things.
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Old 02-07-23, 02:08 PM
  #71  
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Posts that project an air of arrogance about how something couldn't possibly be better or worth it for anyone are often written by posters with no intention of engaging in a debate in good faith. They're often accompanied by a strong whiff of the desire for self-affirmation to distract from their own FOMO.
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Old 02-07-23, 02:11 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
I've always found that smart people who want to be understood strive to communicate as plainly as possible while still being able to convey complex ideas.

Just putting that out there.
UhÖ. What?
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Old 02-07-23, 02:18 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by rsbob
UhÖ. What?
Well I'm an idiot that's what.
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Old 02-07-23, 03:45 PM
  #74  
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Some of you need to spend less money in therapy and more on good tires or just go do some hill intervals.
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Old 02-07-23, 03:57 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Some of you need to spend less money in therapy and more on good tires or just go do some hill intervals.
I'm in therapy because of hill intervals.
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