scratchpaddy

I've been fighting the itch to build another bike for a while now. I managed to fight it off long enough to sell two others to make room, but I gave in last week and bought a new frame to build up. I wanted something bright, and boy, I found it:



It's actually a little new for this sub-forum, but I don't think the others would have much interest in the 20-30-year-old stuff I'll be building it with. Plus, what little info I found on the brand was here in this sub. They are (or were) a small Italian firm selling frames only, mostly entry-level Columbus Thron tubing, with a reputation for comfortable but responsive geometry.

This frame I found new-old-stock on eBay, but somehow without the usual stratospheric NOS markup. It was actually cheaper than most other Italian frames, even the ones in crap condition. The seller messaged me shortly after I bought it, saying their picture was inaccurate, and asking if it was okay that it actually came with a chrome fork. Even better!

I'm still waiting for most everything to arrive, but I did manage to find a local guy on Craigslist selling a mostly Dura-Ace 7700 groupset, with Ultegra 6500 cranks. I've always stuck with downtube shifters before, so this will be my first bike with integrated shifters!

xiaoman1 

Looking forward to seeing the progress.
Ben

rccardr 

I've owned a couple of DeBernardi's, one Columbus MAX, one Columbus SL; they are great frames.
Nicely finished, excellent paint work, worth the $ IMHO.

bikemig 

I worked in a shop that sold de Bernardi bikes in the 80s. They were well made and reasonably priced.

scratchpaddy

Thanks for the encouraging words and first-hand experiences! I did some more research on the brand today, as the frame slowly makes its way here from Connecticut. It's amazing how few people have anything bad to say about the brand. This is what I turned up on its history:

Guido de Bernardi worked for Legnano through the 60's and 70's, including some custom work on the bikes for their professional teams. In the early 80's, he started his own frame shop, called Tecnotrat, in Cuneo. One of the first things they did was take over the Saronni brand from Colnago. They also sold lots of frames to shops all over the world, to be sold under regional house brands. Apparently many of them were sold in Australia and New Zealand, because there's a bunch of info about Tecnotrat on Oz/Kiwi forums. Or maybe that's the only info I'm finding in my English-language search.

In the late '80's, they dropped the Saronni name and started exporting frames under the "de Bernardi" brand. It seems the brand hit its peak in the '90's, and Tecnotrat had some difficulties, or maybe just general business changes, in the 2000's. I'm not sure how many of the original people are involved, but the brand continues today. At least some of their frames are still Italian-made. I just realized seller I bought the bike from is (one of) the current US importer(s) of de Bernardi frames, Zar International. Maybe I'll ask them about it.

scratchpaddy

Welp, the cruel universe delivered my frame today. I broke my arm yesterday, so this little project is sidelined for the next month or two, along with everything else bike-related.

Still, I couldn't resist taking a look.



The stock picture captured the color well: metallic yellow, with a little greenish pearl sheen. I love it, though I'm fully aware most people will not.



The finishing on the joints is really smooth for a welded frame. And yes, it's aluminum. The frame is only 1770g, and the threaded steel fork is 687g. It's not exactly featherweight, even at the time it was made, but it's a whole lot lighter than any I've had before.

I didn't see any clues on the frame for date of manufacture, but the apparently original bag it shipped in was stamped 11 97. November 1997? A plausible date, near when Columbus first introduced Aluthron tubing.

sced

I troll Ebay from time to time and have seen your frame or other NOS de Bernardis. The yellow looks tres fab and I look forward to seeing it all done up.

scratchpaddy

Thanks, Ed. I'm looking forward to having it done, too!

I wanted to get the headset surfaced and reamed, so I'd know it was perfect. It's got a lot of paint on it now. I thought I could just go to a bike shop and have them do it, but...

It's been a while since I've been to any bike shops. Both the shops I liked to go to went out of business in the past few years. I tried another one nearby today that was just a small husband-and-wife deal. They were nice, but didn't have a ream tool. The owner recommended an older shop, like the Landis on Southern and Price (Landis is a local bike store chain). He also suggested I stay away from the one on Warner and Rural. I'd heard bad things about that shop from a co-worker, too.

So, I called the Landis on Southern and Price. No tool there, either, but the tech said the location on Warner and Rural had one. Oh no...

I go there in person. They're not busy, but I have to go through layers of employees to get to the one guy who will know what I'm talking about.

"What tube?"
"Do what now?"
"We probably have one..."
"What's the tool called again?"

When the veteran returns, he grumps that it's "not a quick service," moves my frame from the stand to the floor, and walks off, not giving me the chance to explain that I just want the head tube surfaced, not the whole frame machined. The other people tell me I need to come back with the seat post collar for some reason, and they're scheduling my service for two and a half weeks from now. I politely declined and walked out.

This is why I don't like trying to get other people to work on my stuff.

sced

I only go in desperation. I had nasty BBs chased on two olde frames this past year because I didn't trust myself to not damage the threads. One was French (mine) and the other Italian (wife's). I actually had to buy the tap for the French BB ($20 from China) because the shop didn't have one. Both bikes are on the road now and much loved.

Can't you just file or scrape away the paint that needs removal?

scratchpaddy

Sure, I went at it with a file after I got home, but the main issue for me wasn't the paint, but that the ends of the top tube weren't perfectly flat. Apparently no one bothers anymore, so it's probably a non-issue, but I figured I'd get it perfect while the frame was still naked. I hadn't known it would be so difficult to find someone to do the job.

I've never had a new frame before, so maybe I'm a little too obsessed with the details.

merziac

I don't think you can be too obsessed with the details, they form the foundation of much that comes after and as you stated, it is not only easier but better dealt with beforehand less encumbered than after.

himespau 

Can't wait to see it done.

sced

Maybe you can use a threaded rod with nuts and washers to gage the unevenness and file the tube ends parallel

scratchpaddy

Very true. Thanks. I feel a little better now about how I do... pretty much everything.

The head tube was really a non-issue. The paint just made it look like something bad was going on. Also, the first headset I bought was supposed to be ISO (Ø30.2mm), but turned out to be JIS (Ø30.0mm), which doesn't press-fit at all in an ISO frame. The correct headset came yesterday. Since threaded headsets are largely obsolete, I was expecting to get the old 5/32" ball cup-and-cone setup, but it turns out there are plenty of headsets available with aluminum bodies and sealed bearings. This whole thing is only 90 grams.



Tasi wanted to know what all the grunting was, as I pressed in the headset with one arm not quite ready to function properly.



It all went together perfectly, though.

scratchpaddy

I just had that 100mm stem in the closet, but after putting it on the bike with those handlebars, I could see it was too long. So, I went back online and found an 80mm quill that looked rough but salvageable. It looks a lot like the Cinelli on my Basso, but was made in Japan. Not sure who "Sunshine" is, but finish quality feels decent. Before and after polishing...



A little token Italian bit for the seatpost. The seller said it's a Xenon, which I'm inclined to believe 'cuz I don't know much about Campagnolo. I know their old stuff is beautiful, and much harder to find than Shimano. I've always loved their late-'80's "aero" seatposts.



I started putting the drivetrain together last weekend. There was only one reasonable choice for cable housing color on this bike.



I love these 6500 cranks, even though they're not Dura Ace to match the rest of the group. Another first for me: it's Octalink, not square taper.



All I have left are the brake cables and bar tape. Oh, and the chain. Minor details.

scratchpaddy

We're going full 90's here. No, really. I have no shame.

pcb 

Splash tape For The Win!!!!!

If you don't mind a suggestion, you might want to take a closer look at your stem insertion level and the actual length of the threads on the steer tube. Looks like you've got a spacer under the headset cap nut, maybe 5mm or so? That would mean at minimum you probably need the minimum insertion mark to be 5mm deeper.

The bottom line is you don't want the pull-up wedge to be tightening in the threaded section of the steer tube, and you have a '70s-era stem that assumed a fairly low headset stack height, and not a lot of threads on the steer tube. And you've got a frame made in '97, with a higher-stack headset by the looks of it, plus that spacer. You might want to pull the fork, measure the actual length of the threaded section, reassemble the headset, and eyeball the uninserted stem, next to the headtube, to see how far down it would need to go to get the wedge below the threads.

It may be totally fine as is, it's just get that maybe-dicey look to my old eyes.

Very nice job polishing the stem, btw.

Sunshine was the anglicized brand name for Sanshin Industries, a Japanese company with ties to Suntour, that was mostly known for making hubs. Moving into in the '80s Sanshin started using "Sanshin" i/o "Sunshine" on their parts. And I'm pretty sure by that time they stopped making stems and concentrated on hubsets. You'll see a fair amount of Sunshine/Sanshin hubs on vintage bikes, not so many Sunshine stems. I've hardly ever seen any Sunshine stems, and by 1980 or so Kusuki was the bar/stem partner in Suntour's JEX group of allied component mfrs.

Minor historical note is that Sanshin's president was the younger son of Junzo Kawai, the Chairman of Maeda Industries (Suntour). Typically that kind of arrangement would indicate that Maeda likely owned a chunk of Sanshin, but I don't know the particulars, mostly guesswork on my part. And Sanshin did some forging work for the Japanese auto industry, in addition to their bicycle parts.

scratchpaddy

Great info, thanks! And good eye, yes, I used a 5mm spacer in case I messed up the cutting (I've never done it before). You can always cut more, but you can't put it back. The cutting went well, so I left the spacer. The steerer comes up to just below the top of the lock nut.

The threaded section of the steerer is very long, I guess so it could work with any size frame, large or small. It was 250mm originally, with 150mm of it threaded. I cut off 30mm, leaving 120mm of threads. I can't lower the stem enough to reach the un-threaded part, but apparently the manufacturer intended for it to work this way? I've never seen a quill stem meant to sit 5-6" down into the steerer.



Now that you mention hubs, I remember the '83 Fuji Del Rey I used to have had Sunshine hubs. I never make the connection for some reason. The stem was clear-coated, which made me think it was late-80's, early-90's. All the older aluminum components I've seen were uncoated.

scratchpaddy

Ok, I was thinking that picture was from after I cut the threads, but it was before. I took it apart and measured. Remaining thread length is 90mm:



Minimum quill insertion of 65mm puts the stress well within the thread area. I can see why that would be a problem. The threads, and the notch which goes through at the minor diameter of the threads, cut the wall thickness in half, from 1/16" (1.5mm) to 1/32" (0.7mm):



Plus, the stem I've chosen is an expander type, which puts the stress in an even smaller area than a wedge. I need a taller stem. ...I guess sourcing a new stem now is better than sourcing a new fork later.

pcb 

Good on ya for checking!

With the understanding that much of what comes out of my mouth/keyboard is an oversimplification, you hit the nail on the head when you supposed that mfrs used forks with long threaded sections so they could use the same fork on multiple frame sizes. Already moving into the '80s, many production-bike mfrs who built their frames in-house were outsourcing forks. Being able to buy a large qty of 1 SKU of fork to cover several frame sizes makes a lot of economic sense, but isn't always the best practical solution.

I'm not familiar with steer tube diameters used over the years, and given how sensitive most mfrs selling product in the US are/were to product liability claims, it is possible your fork started with a thicker steer tube so that there'd be enough meat remaining in the threaded sections to tolerate stem-wedge forces. That's what I'd do if I were a product manager, and my cost structure wouldn't allow me to buy different forks for every frame size.

You could certainly google the heck outta that, maybe your steer tube is thick enough that it's not a concern.

Or you can get a stem with a longer quill.

The usual go-to is the Nitto Technomic, or the Technomic Deluxe. The Deluxe is drop-forged i/o melt-forged, has a nicer anodized finish, and a much nicer handlebar clamp design, with a wedge-shaped nut that doesn't require a wrench for optimal torquing. The quill is a little shorter, but may still be long enough to cover your needs. Depends on how high you want to get the bars. New Technomics are around $40-$45; Deluxes go $65+. Used Technomics are aplenty, Deluxes not so numerous. If you decide to go with a Technomic, a WTB ad in the classifieds will probably get you at least half-a-dozen offers. A lot of us old geeks have heaps of 'em sitting around.

And just FWIW, I think what you were removing when polishing your Sunshine stem wasn't clear coat, it was a satin anodized finish. Clear coat is like paint, sprayed over/on a painted surface. Anodizing is an electrochemical process that changes the composition of the aluminum surface. Google gave me those words. Anodizing makes the surface more durable, but you can't get the same shine you get with non-anodized aluminum.

The upside to removing the anodizing is that pretty shine. The downside is you have clean and re-polish that now non-anodized surface to keep it that pretty.

Of course, for many of us, that cleaning/polishing/fussing is half the fun.

Spaghetti Legs 

That bike is hot! Perfect for Phoenix! Nice job with the build. Looks to me like it will be stiff, quick, racer feel to it.

scratchpaddy

pcb, maybe I could have ridden for years with no problems. Or maybe you saved me from an ugly accident. Since I'm now aware of the potential issue, I'll fix it. Peace of mind and all that. I appreciate you pointing it out to me.

I did look around for new threaded forks out of curiosity, and every one of them is threaded 4" to 5" down. Steerers longer than 200mm are also uncommon. I'd rather just make sure this fork will keep working forever. I could only find the Deluxe Technomic in Ø26mm clamp, so I ordered a standard Technomic to fit the Ø25.4 Nitto Olympiade bars on there now. Those suckers are tall! The bottom of the stem will sit a full 2" below the threads, if I keep the bars at the current height, and the added flexibility is nice.

I think you're right on anodizing. I had anodizing and powder coating conflated in my mind, but they are two completely different processes. I do appreciate the durability of the coating, but once it does get scratched, there's nothing you can do to restore the finish.. Plus, polishing is therapeutic.

Spaghetti Legs, thank you! I took it for a quick spin around the parking lot before wrapping the bars to make sure I had the brake levers in a good position. I couldn't believe how light it felt, carrying it down from my third-floor apartment. I almost fell over when I went to pick up my Schwinn again.

himespau 

As someone who rides a bike with a ~235mm (200 mm head tube, 35 mm stack campagnolo headset) steerer and a replacement fork, all of the replacement options (the few that there were) had long enough sections of threading that just about any stem would be slammed down to the headset if I wanted the wedge below the threads. I have to hope that, by the time these one size fits all forks became available, manufacturers took that into account. <crossing my fingers>

scratchpaddy

I finished up getting the new stem on, and getting the handlebars / tape re-sorted yesterday, and took my first ride on it today, about 32 miles. I love it! It's very stiff and light. Accelerating is very quick, with no flex I can feel in the cranks or frame when pedaling hard. The 7700 brakes are excellent. Handling is nimble without feeling twitchy. The ride isn't as punishing as I was afraid it might be. It actually seems smoother than my Schwinn when I had 28mm Marathons on it, which aren't know for their ride quality. I guess it goes to show that frame material is just one factor in ride quality.



It didn't take me long to get used to the brifters. They're nice, but still something I don't mind doing without on my other bikes, given how flat it is here. I shift depending on the wind direction, pretty much. I still much prefer the aesthetics of downtube shifters, which avoid having so many cables coming from the handlebars.



As a child of the 90's, this is my first real nostalgia bike. All these components were popular during my lifetime, and that obnoxious color scheme really brings me back. I miss the days when bright colors were still common, though I guess it's easy to stand out now when everyone else is so averse to it. Subtlety is overrated, IMO.

nomadmax 

Well done!