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High Heat Training

Old 07-21-22, 07:43 AM
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High Heat Training

The positive effect of training in High Heat conditions have been known for quite some time now; however, the message seems to be falling on deaf ears. We're always hearing of how dangerous it is to train in high heat/humidity...and it is, but this is not a reason to avoid these conditions, rather it's a reason to condition oneself to these conditions. I just can't believe how often I hear people talk about needing to get their run/ride in before or after the hottest part of the day, because of the perceived danger, despite the evidence of how beneficial this type of training is on the body.

I feel lucky in that every year where I live, it's common to exceed 100 degrees in the feel-like temp and I don't avoid it. The fact that it slows you down I see as an additional benefit, because I'm the type of person that always over does it (like most of us), both on the bike and on my runs. So, in addition to using high heat runs/rides to build oxygen-carrying capacity of my blood, I can use them to slow me down, ensuring I can do my runs/rides day-after-day. I can very much feel a difference when the weather cools.


But people are slowly starting to come around to the many benefits of high heat training, like this lady from Sweden

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Old 07-21-22, 08:50 AM
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What's your point?

I went riding yesterday for 90 minutes in the middle of the afternoon with 95F actual temps and high humidity. As long as I was over 15-16 mph I was cool and comfortable. The slower I was for climbs or stopped at a crossing the hotter I was.

I'm not sure there is any overall benefit to training in the heat other than if you are use to it, you get additional days to ride or train. For certain if you are going to do anything in the heat, you need to work up to it. High temps do tax the body more and are less forgiving of things we get by with during cooler temps.
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Old 07-21-22, 09:46 AM
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There's no one size fits all for this. I'm an overweight senior. I went out last night (mid 90's and high humidity) with two 1 liter water bottles filled with water+electrolytes. Half way through my ride I refilled them. Drank that up. Then I stopped at a coffee shop, drank an ice water plus a 20 ounce Sprite. I finished a 19 mile ride. Yet I still had a wicked head ache when I got home. I think I'll wait till Sunday when the heat is supposed to break before I venture out again.
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Old 07-21-22, 09:57 AM
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Of course its all relative. Here in Central Texas it's not hot till it gets over 100F. Over in West Texas even higher. Last week at 19:00 Hrs when ridding my short route it was 116F three feet above the asphalt. I was feeling it. Luckily most of my ride is over torn up asphalt and light gravel and not as hot. Halfway through my ride I passed a house with a bunch of elementary school kids playing with the hose in the front yard. I turned and motioned for them to spray me down and they got a big kick out of it. Especially when a motor cycle rider stopped for a spray too. Do what ya can to beat the heat. As far as training is concerned I guess it might be as hard to get some people to ride in the heat as it is ta get me to ride when its 40F...
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Old 07-21-22, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
Halfway through my ride I passed a house with a bunch of elementary school kids playing with the hose in the front yard. I turned and motioned for them to spray me down and they got a big kick out of it. Especially when a motor cycle rider stopped for a spray too. Do what ya can to beat the heat. As far as training is concerned I guess it might be as hard to get some people to ride in the heat as it is ta get me to ride when its 40F...
I have started turning the hose on myself just before I start my afternoon rides. Helps during the ride for 10 to 15 minutes or so. Especially when moving to have air flowing.

Just don't make the mistake I made last week when I forgot to let the water run a while before squirting myself with it. A water hose on the sunny side of the house gets extremely hot!
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Old 07-21-22, 10:57 AM
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It was 73F in Port Townsend yesterday. I'm going swimming after work today.
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Old 07-21-22, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
What's your point?

I went riding yesterday for 90 minutes in the middle of the afternoon with 95F actual temps and high humidity. As long as I was over 15-16 mph I was cool and comfortable. The slower I was for climbs or stopped at a crossing the hotter I was.

I'm not sure there is any overall benefit to training in the heat other than if you are use to it, you get additional days to ride or train. For certain if you are going to do anything in the heat, you need to work up to it. High temps do tax the body more and are less forgiving of things we get by with during cooler temps.
Google "HS1" or "heat stress protein." And no, don't hose yourself off before you ride unless it's in competition. Heat stress is the whole point. Climbing in over 100 is a challenge, especially with a tailwind and the sweat dripping off your nose onto your top tube. Works though. Takes about two weeks of riding in it to acclimate to the heat. Unfortunately around here 2 weeks of hot is really rare, so we too frequently get a hot event ride we couldn't really train for. I've seen over 10% of riders sagged off a hard course. My wife and I were OK that year, on our tandem yet.

An issue is that it's impossible to get enough water across the stomach wall to replace what you sweat in hot conditions. 2% dehydration is actually faster, but 4% is not good. Sometimes one has to stop and drink and do electrolytes in the shade to catch up. I can always tell by my HR. 20 beats over what it should be is my limit.
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Old 07-21-22, 11:36 AM
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When it gets really hot, my least favorite thing is climbing on relatively fresh asphalt where I leave a groove behind me and the bubbles pop as I ride along.

On hot rides, I pretty much always use a 70 oz. light Camelbak. Bottles just don't hold enough and they get hot. I fill it most of the way up with ice before I start and hope to replace ice along the way. Sometimes. Besides the cool and the quantity, you'll just drink from a Camelbak more frequently than you'll reach for a bottle. Not, it's not roadie. I've gone through the whole thing in 25 miles of climbing and didn't have to pee. The bad thing about insulated bottles is they don't hold as much. I've tried two 1-liter bottles, but the hot water is nasty and one is not as likely to drink it.
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Old 07-21-22, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
What's your point?

I went riding yesterday for 90 minutes in the middle of the afternoon with 95F actual temps and high humidity. As long as I was over 15-16 mph I was cool and comfortable. The slower I was for climbs or stopped at a crossing the hotter I was.

I'm not sure there is any overall benefit to training in the heat other than if you are use to it, you get additional days to ride or train. For certain if you are going to do anything in the heat, you need to work up to it. High temps do tax the body more and are less forgiving of things we get by with during cooler temps.
My point is, that high humidity and temperatures does not mean we have to stay indoors and avoid training, like the plague, as so often repeated. Yes, there is a danger, but we can adapt to those conditions. Furthermore, there are studies that show there is a positive effect to high-heat training.

I don't understand your point where you seem to say there is no overall benefit, yet you do need to get use to it. Seems to me, just the fact that you're getting use to it, means something is happening inside.

A little more on high-heat training. https://www.outsideonline.com/health...ning-benefits/

P.S. I know a lot of us are not racers, but training in the heat can still benefit us, by adapting to these conditions. I can't tell you how many miserable people I've seen in "heat", which I thought was very tolerable and wouldn't even consider hot enough for high-heat training.

Training Effect

Numerous studies have shown that training in heated conditions, two to three times per week for 20 to 90 minutes, can produce a multitude of beneficial training effects. These include:
  • Lower core temperature at the onset of sweating
  • Increased plasma volume (Plasma is the liquid component in your blood. If the volume is increased, you can send blood to cool your skin without compromising the supply carrying oxygen to your muscles.)
  • Decreased heart rate
  • Increased oxygen consumption
  • Improved exercise economy
The result? You can run faster and/or more efficiently in all temperatures.


Originally Posted by boozergut View Post
There's no one size fits all for this. I'm an overweight senior. I went out last night (mid 90's and high humidity) with two 1 liter water bottles filled with water+electrolytes. Half way through my ride I refilled them. Drank that up. Then I stopped at a coffee shop, drank an ice water plus a 20 ounce Sprite. I finished a 19 mile ride. Yet I still had a wicked head ache when I got home. I think I'll wait till Sunday when the heat is supposed to break before I venture out again.
Sounds like you over did it for your personal tolerance, but that does NOT mean you can't improve upon that...However, I completely agree, that there is no one size fits all for this or much of anything else. The same can be said if someone came on here and said, interval workouts benefits us in so many ways, such as...
  • Calories are burned long after exercise. ...
  • They're not boring. ...
  • Increased endurance. ...
  • Better cardiovascular health. ...
  • Members are less likely to give up. ...
  • It helps sedentary people gain muscle. ...
  • Speeds up metabolism. ...
  • More time-efficient.
Although, that's not to say everyone should do the exact same workout, nor is it saying that everyone will experience the exact same results, regardless if it's high-heat training, Intervals or whatever.

However, virtually everyone will see a benefit, not all the same and not every one can do it in the exact same way. This actually leads to another issue in sport's medicine where there's been a lot of debates about so-called Responders vs. Non-responders. One area where this debate gets a lot of attention is High-altitude training. It seems not all athletes respond the same way and some were suggesting that some of these athletes were non-responders. However, this has pretty much been disproven.

https://www.scienceofrunning.com/201...v=47e5dceea252

The Myth of the Non-Responder

I just dont respond to that type of training.

Or if you are a science nerd among us, you might say, I have the non-responder genes for aerobic (or anaerobic) exercise

Its a convenient excuse, and perhaps with a hint of truth. In fact, researchers have suggested that up to 20% of individuals are non-responders to aerobic exercise, so is it a valid concern?

Instead of an excuse, the idea of a non-responder is a convenient stop sign to evaluation. If we label someone as a non-responder, then we are definitively stated that our intervention does not work for that person. Whether that intervention is an altitude training stint or a particular type of speed or endurance training, if we label our individuals who show no improvement, then we can gloss over the hard questions. We dont need to ask why they dont respond. We already have the answer. We move on, shrugging our shoulders and saying Hmm, guess it doesnt work for you, try something else.

Its not exactly an inspiring message. And its likely not true. There is no such thing as non-Responders. Only misapplied stimulus.
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Old 07-21-22, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Google "HS1" or "heat stress protein." And no, don't hose yourself off before you ride unless it's in competition. Heat stress is the whole point. Climbing in over 100 is a challenge, especially with a tailwind and the sweat dripping off your nose onto your top tube.
What about if I'm in competition with myself when I go out for a ride? It's not like I'm doing easy zone 2 rides. My first hard and fast climb is 5 minutes after I hit the road and many times my 20 second power coming out of the neighborhood to the first stop light less than a quarter mile from the start is up there with the rest of my better 20 second power times. And after the first few hard efforts sweat keeps my clothes soaked and is dripping off my nose onto my top tube quite often during the ride.

Unfortunately or fortunately there aren't many long climbs where I have to stay slow for more than 45 seconds. And typically I don't do the routes that have the longer climbs when the temps are high unless I have been out and acclimated to the high temps.

Currently I'm just viewing the wetting of my clothes a pre-sweating till I get my body sweat is in full swing. Am I really missing anything during those first 10 - 15 minutes that won't be made up for during the next 80 - 85 minutes of my typical ride?
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Old 07-21-22, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I don't understand your point where you seem to say there is no overall benefit, yet you do need to get use to it. Seems to me, just the fact that you're getting use to it, means something is happening inside.
Much of what you are showing as benefit is the same benefits we get from cycling when it's not hot. Cycling when it's hot just gives us a chance to cycle and train more often. I will agree that we do need to acclimate to cycling in the hot weather so we are prepared for when we want to do harder cycling in hot weather.

It's not like I'm discouraging or saying one shouldn't ride in hot weather. My rides don't get fewer in hot weather. I'm just questioning whether there is any more benefit than just a ride in any temperature. Should our friends in the cool northern parts wear coats when they cycle to get some of this claimed hot weather benefit?
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Old 07-21-22, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
What about if I'm in competition with myself when I go out for a ride? It's not like I'm doing easy zone 2 rides. My first hard and fast climb is 5 minutes after I hit the road and many times my 20 second power coming out of the neighborhood to the first stop light less than a quarter mile from the start is up there with the rest of my better 20 second power times. And after the first few hard efforts sweat keeps my clothes soaked and is dripping off my nose onto my top tube quite often during the ride.

Unfortunately or fortunately there aren't many long climbs where I have to stay slow for more than 45 seconds. And typically I don't do the routes that have the longer climbs when the temps are high unless I have been out and acclimated to the high temps.

Currently I'm just viewing the wetting of my clothes a pre-sweating till I get my body sweat is in full swing. Am I really missing anything during those first 10 - 15 minutes that won't be made up for during the next 80 - 85 minutes of my typical ride?
When you're in competition with yourself it's called training. When you're in competition with others, it's racing. In training, the object is to inflict pain at the expense of a fast time. We do stupid stuff when we train, stuff we'd never do if we were racing. Yeah, on an event ride I'll douse myself with water, put ice socks on my neck, and take it as easy as I can the whole way, which if done right, will not result in total exhaustion at the finish, like I would on the training ride, the last few miles just trying to finish, maybe cramping. Not every ride like that of course, just the one's which imitate the target ride. For events, I try to have a negative split. Training, I definitely don't do that.

Anyway, enough ranting. You didn't use the google machine.
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Old 07-21-22, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I have started turning the hose on myself just before I start my afternoon rides. Helps during the ride for 10 to 15 minutes or so. Especially when moving to have air flowing.

Just don't make the mistake I made last week when I forgot to let the water run a while before squirting myself with it. A water hose on the sunny side of the house gets extremely hot!
When I lived Back East, and I used to run for exercise, after runs on really hot days I'd turn the hose on myself, but I got the best relief from overheating by running the cool water on my head and the back of my neck.
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Old 07-21-22, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
When it gets really hot, my least favorite thing is climbing on relatively fresh asphalt where I leave a groove behind me and the bubbles pop as I ride along.

On hot rides, I pretty much always use a 70 oz. light Camelbak. Bottles just don't hold enough and they get hot. I fill it most of the way up with ice before I start and hope to replace ice along the way. Sometimes. Besides the cool and the quantity, you'll just drink from a Camelbak more frequently than you'll reach for a bottle. Not, it's not roadie. I've gone through the whole thing in 25 miles of climbing and didn't have to pee. The bad thing about insulated bottles is they don't hold as much. I've tried two 1-liter bottles, but the hot water is nasty and one is not as likely to drink it.
Wrapping your ice-cold water bottle in wet white socks will help keep it cool for longer!

Obviously through evaporative cooling.

If the socks had dried, you can wet it with your sweat, neat huh? I had to OD on vitamin B12 to figure that out.

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Old 07-22-22, 04:43 AM
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Acclimatization is a good thing...and it can only be achieved by riding in extremes of temperatures....I don't care how good you are on your indoor trainer in your air conditioned room.., if your body isn't acclimatized, you will fail if you attempt to ride in temperature extremes outdoors.... Pushing through extremes is good for developing mental toughness and focus.
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Old 07-22-22, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Anyway, enough ranting. You didn't use the google machine.
I did use the google machine!

I evidently didn't find the article you read. Or perhaps I'm confused about what your suggestion for it was. I looked at several articles/abstracts on PubMed too.

Mostly I was googling to see why spraying water on me was bad. I didn't find anything about that in the stuff about "HS1" or "heat stress protein." Nor did I find out that there is any magic for HS1 other than it plays a big part in help us adapt to the stresses of working and exercising in the higher temps.

Admittedly I've gotten slack in my reading of medical and scientific stuff that gets really technical in terms used so If it's buried in those articles, you'll have to spell it out for me!

I've somewhat gotten to the point where a mind is a terrible thing.... wait... or is it supposed to be a mind is a terrible thing to waste! <grin>
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Old 07-22-22, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I did use the google machine!

I evidently didn't find the article you read. Or perhaps I'm confused about what your suggestion for it was. I looked at several articles/abstracts on PubMed too.

Mostly I was googling to see why spraying water on me was bad. I didn't find anything about that in the stuff about "HS1" or "heat stress protein." Nor did I find out that there is any magic for HS1 other than it plays a big part in help us adapt to the stresses of working and exercising in the higher temps.

Admittedly I've gotten slack in my reading of medical and scientific stuff that gets really technical in terms used so If it's buried in those articles, you'll have to spell it out for me!

I've somewhat gotten to the point where a mind is a terrible thing.... wait... or is it supposed to be a mind is a terrible thing to waste! <grin>
Yeah, things have changed a bit since last I messed with this. Here are a couple of somewhat contradictory studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6843002/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2963322/

and better google results from "heat shock protein training studies".

My comment about the hose was simply that one is out there to get a specific effect, so why try to diminish said sought-after effect.

Unfortunately for my PNW event next week, the weather is going to turn hot just when I'm at the tail end of my taper, and it's been a unusually cool spring and summer. I'm going to suffer. Snow level in the mountains is still below 5000' in many places. Sucks.
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Old 07-22-22, 10:57 AM
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High Heat Training
Decades ago, I used to live in a spot where for several months of the year many (even most) afternoon runs and rides would be done in temperatures from the high 80s to high 90s.

Basic rule of thumb, which I found to be particularly necessary with running but which also worked well for cycling: back off some, even quite a lot; ensure stellar hydration (before and during); and take as many brief rest brakes to refuel/refill as necessary. Only overheated once (on a run), where I didn't pay as much attention to the hydration component. Heat stroked, that day. Bad stuff. But, aside from that one incident, there was ~15yrs of cycling and hard distance running done in all weather, including over 100 occasionally. So long as the guidelines were followed, we ended up fine.
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Old 07-22-22, 11:05 AM
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90's 100? come on now lets see when it is 113 and my garmin reads 135 over the pavement Now that will really weed out the wimps (G) it was so brutal its hard to even breath 30 minute ride was a lot.
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Old 07-22-22, 11:12 AM
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Carbonfiberboy

In the more recent article it was interesting the mention of sodium reduction in sweat as the HEAT group became better acclimated to the higher temps. I never crust up my clothes with salt when I sweat in the heat like some that I know. But all my life I've never shied away from working or exercising high temps. I tend to use a little more salt or electrolyte in my bottles if I've not been in the heat for a while but that goes back to normal amounts when I feel decent about the heat.

Not sure about the rectal temps. I don't want to go to that extent so we all can make some comparisons.... <grin>
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Old 07-22-22, 12:52 PM
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I'm all for sweating and getting some heat therapy. Just be smart about it. You can push your body and that's a good thing up to a point. The no pain no gain mentality can get you killed or injured though and should be tempered with dose of good old common sense.
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Old 07-22-22, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Carbonfiberboy

In the more recent article it was interesting the mention of sodium reduction in sweat as the HEAT group became better acclimated to the higher temps. I never crust up my clothes with salt when I sweat in the heat like some that I know. But all my life I've never shied away from working or exercising high temps. I tend to use a little more salt or electrolyte in my bottles if I've not been in the heat for a while but that goes back to normal amounts when I feel decent about the heat.

Not sure about the rectal temps. I don't want to go to that extent so we all can make some comparisons.... <grin>
I eat a natural foods low salt diet. I try to get about 3/4 t. salt/day. I also never have salt stains, no matter the heat. I separate my water and electrolytes, taking Endurolytes on a basis of - no thirst, take 1-2 Endurolytes. I like to be slightly thirsty., encourages me to drink. I shove the coin purse up my shorts leg. My "tell" is my forearms. Dry forearms, I'm in trouble, need water and shade now.
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Old 07-23-22, 07:46 PM
  #23  
koala logs
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I really don't like high heat training, ie, deliberately looking for hot environments or making your indoor training hot (slow fan, etc).

It forces you to scale back your efforts and that's not good for building strength and speed. It might be detrimental to your high or top end power.

I prefer instead to "overheat" myself simply by doing hard intervals z4 to z5 for more than 30 minutes continuously. My quick dry shirt would be dripping wet even with strong fan if I did that
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Old 07-24-22, 06:36 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by koala logs View Post

I prefer instead to "overheat" myself simply by doing hard intervals z4 to z5 for more than 30 minutes continuously.
I smell BS here....Nobody can sustain Zone 5 ride for more than a few minutes, not even eite level athletes.
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Old 07-24-22, 08:30 AM
  #25  
koala logs
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I smell BS here....Nobody can sustain Zone 5 ride for more than a few minutes, not even eite level athletes.
Up to 40 minutes in zone 5 in my parallel universe....

https://www.heartzones.com/why-to-us...e-field-tests/


Last edited by koala logs; 07-24-22 at 08:47 AM.
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