So this may have happened...Ciocc content
02-06-23, 01:47 PM
#26
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that just "does not compute" for me!
I have 2 CIOCCs, neither is a "Mockba 80" but both are full Columbus SL frames and both take 27.2 seatposts (just as God and Pope have always intended!
)
I cannot conceive of how a seat tube on a CIOCC could need a 26.4 or 26.6 post UNLESS there's a batch made with Metric Columbus SL seat tubes (not likely) OR (my guess) a batch that got built with seat tubes installed upside down (so the butted section was on top, not in the BB shell).
One test: measure the OD of these 3 main tubes to rule out some weird mixing of tubing types
I have 2 CIOCCs, neither is a "Mockba 80" but both are full Columbus SL frames and both take 27.2 seatposts (just as God and Pope have always intended!
)I cannot conceive of how a seat tube on a CIOCC could need a 26.4 or 26.6 post UNLESS there's a batch made with Metric Columbus SL seat tubes (not likely) OR (my guess) a batch that got built with seat tubes installed upside down (so the butted section was on top, not in the BB shell).
One test: measure the OD of these 3 main tubes to rule out some weird mixing of tubing types
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02-06-23, 02:17 PM
#27
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that just "does not compute" for me!
I have 2 CIOCCs, neither is a "Mockba 80" but both are full Columbus SL frames and both take 27.2 seatposts (just as God and Pope have always intended!)
I cannot conceive of how a seat tube on a CIOCC could need a 26.4 or 26.6 post UNLESS there's a batch made with Metric Columbus SL seat tubes (not likely) OR (my guess) a batch that got built with seat tubes installed upside down (so the butted section was on top, not in the BB shell).
One test: measure the OD of these 3 main tubes to rule out some weird mixing of tubing types
I have 2 CIOCCs, neither is a "Mockba 80" but both are full Columbus SL frames and both take 27.2 seatposts (just as God and Pope have always intended!
)I cannot conceive of how a seat tube on a CIOCC could need a 26.4 or 26.6 post UNLESS there's a batch made with Metric Columbus SL seat tubes (not likely) OR (my guess) a batch that got built with seat tubes installed upside down (so the butted section was on top, not in the BB shell).
One test: measure the OD of these 3 main tubes to rule out some weird mixing of tubing types
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
02-06-23, 08:03 PM
#28
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that just "does not compute" for me!
I have 2 CIOCCs, neither is a "Mockba 80" but both are full Columbus SL frames and both take 27.2 seatposts (just as God and Pope have always intended!)
I cannot conceive of how a seat tube on a CIOCC could need a 26.4 or 26.6 post UNLESS there's a batch made with Metric Columbus SL seat tubes (not likely) OR (my guess) a batch that got built with seat tubes installed upside down (so the butted section was on top, not in the BB shell).
One test: measure the OD of these 3 main tubes to rule out some weird mixing of tubing types
I have 2 CIOCCs, neither is a "Mockba 80" but both are full Columbus SL frames and both take 27.2 seatposts (just as God and Pope have always intended!
)I cannot conceive of how a seat tube on a CIOCC could need a 26.4 or 26.6 post UNLESS there's a batch made with Metric Columbus SL seat tubes (not likely) OR (my guess) a batch that got built with seat tubes installed upside down (so the butted section was on top, not in the BB shell).
One test: measure the OD of these 3 main tubes to rule out some weird mixing of tubing types
I just went to the Columbus tubing specs sheet and you are correct about the upside down install of the seat tubes. It happened at Schwinn on a number of Paramounts and they just used a different seat pin on those. Mine is likely an upside down seat tube as the difference of the tube inner diameters is .2mm so a 26.4 would be a correct size for the seat post. Smiles, MH
Last edited by Mad Honk; 02-06-23 at 08:09 PM.
02-06-23, 08:43 PM
#29
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I’m trying to get my head around the math here...
If a seat tube is 28.6mm in diameter and the thickness is .6 mm and butted to .9mm... (.7 and 1.0 for SP)
Wouldn't that mean the seatpost diameter should be 27.4 or 26.6 for an upside down tube?
Where does the other .2mm go????
If a seat tube is 28.6mm in diameter and the thickness is .6 mm and butted to .9mm... (.7 and 1.0 for SP)
Wouldn't that mean the seatpost diameter should be 27.4 or 26.6 for an upside down tube?
Where does the other .2mm go????
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
02-07-23, 05:07 PM
#30
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Jdawg,
I think the answer lies in the post by our esteemed member Mr. Thompson back on 11-24-17. The posting is in the thread: Seat post size, an indication of the tubes used? Post number 23 explains it fairly well. Smiles, MH
I think the answer lies in the post by our esteemed member Mr. Thompson back on 11-24-17. The posting is in the thread: Seat post size, an indication of the tubes used? Post number 23 explains it fairly well. Smiles, MH
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02-07-23, 06:09 PM
#32
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So in our case, 28.6 - 1.8 thickness - .2 reaming yields 26.6 post size because our seat tubes are inverted. Which means if less than .1 reamed, that is why your 26.6 would be snug.
Got it now.
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02-07-23, 06:21 PM
#33
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Nice! Well, except for the rust...but there's stuff for that.
I seriously doubt the 26.4 seat post size could be correct: even if this frame has an Aelle seat tube (not likely if the remnant of Columbus decal is correct) it would be at the least 26.8.
I'd be quite surprised if this isn't 27.2
Some "purists" might cast aspersions on the Modolo Pro brakes and the Superbe components, but not me, I like both (even Sun Tour on such an Italian frame).
If this floats your boat then just keep rowing.
I seriously doubt the 26.4 seat post size could be correct: even if this frame has an Aelle seat tube (not likely if the remnant of Columbus decal is correct) it would be at the least 26.8.
I'd be quite surprised if this isn't 27.2
Some "purists" might cast aspersions on the Modolo Pro brakes and the Superbe components, but not me, I like both (even Sun Tour on such an Italian frame).
If this floats your boat then just keep rowing.
02-07-23, 06:33 PM
#34
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Brakes are one area I sort of don’t mind being picky and not of vintage. I like Superbes, 105 SLR and Shimano 600 EX of the vintage side pull. Otherwise I am team dual pivot.
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
02-07-23, 06:34 PM
#35
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Jdawg,
Do the math for an SP tube installed upside down and see what happens. Smiles, MH
Do the math for an SP tube installed upside down and see what happens. Smiles, MH
02-07-23, 07:12 PM
#36
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Possibly Ciocc used SP? Hmm...
On the other hand, on other Mockbas that report 27.2, does that mean SL right side up for those? Weird.
Maybe we got the rare and weird ones.
02-07-23, 07:13 PM
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That bike looks like it should go in the Spaghetti Legs stable! My basement is the home for abused and unloved bikes. My Ciöcc (Chuck) arrived to me in a pretty beat up but unrusted state. I rode it a while, tried to sell it here and since nobody wanted it, I squeezed some 29 mm tires on it and used it for my do everything gravel bike. It is a sweet riding bike, warts and all and Chuck and I have been on many adventures together.
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02-07-23, 07:28 PM
#38
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That bike looks like it should go in the Spaghetti Legs stable! My basement is the home for abused and unloved bikes. My Ciöcc (Chuck) arrived to me in a pretty beat up but unrusted state. I rode it a while, tried to sell it here and since nobody wanted it, I squeezed some 29 mm tires on it and used it for my do everything gravel bike. It is a sweet riding bike, warts and all and Chuck and I have been on many adventures together.
I think I am going to take @gugie ‘s advice and de rust, touch up and ride it (no, not convert to 650b). The anthracite color of the one in Bicycling made it stick with me and I have a feeling it will clean up well enough.
Decals look largely good so hoping that’s true when it arrives!
The head set, crank and FD stay, though the bars, stem, brakes lever and Superbe RD are a nice bonus as well.
I vaguely remember being tempted by your Ciocc...2, 3 years ago maybe?
Dave
02-07-23, 08:11 PM
#39
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Sounds about right.
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N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
02-07-23, 10:00 PM
#40
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What size is it? I think I might have felt it was too big or something (or I was not fully addicted)...
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
02-08-23, 04:43 AM
#41
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Congrats on getting your Ciocc! Looks like a great project. My Competition frame is still in storage. Maybe one of these days I’ll find a fork for it and build it.
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2010 AB T1X ** 2010 Cannondale SIX-5 ** 1993 Cannondale RS900 ** 1988 Bottecchia Team Record ** 1989 Bianchi Brava ** 1988 Nishiki Olympic ** 1987 Centurion Ironman Expert(2) ** 1985 DeRosa Professional SLX ** 1982 Colnago Super ** 1982 Basso Gap ** 198? Ciocc Competition SL ** 19?? Roberts Audax ** 198? Brian Rourke ** 1982 Mercian Olympic ** 1970 Raleigh Professional MK I ** 1952 Raleigh Sports
02-08-23, 08:59 AM
#42
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I had the Conti I think it was the Moscow version. True beauty it had the Italian flag brazed on the toptube. It was one that small for me, I sold that frame and a Giubilato to a guy that drove 400 miles round trip. He came up to buy one for his son, the Giubilato. ended up getting the Conti for himself, with the intention of training with his boy for Competitions.
He was bouncing off the walls when I showed him the Conti and it was his size exactly.
He was bouncing off the walls when I showed him the Conti and it was his size exactly.
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02-10-23, 03:32 PM
#43
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jdawginsc ,
Don't go out looking for aa 26.4 seat pin just yet! I slipped a 26.4 in my Ciocc this morning and it is loose around the collar, and actually rocks enough in the tube to make me think the collar had been sized down due to an undersized seat post having been installed. I am going to pull the BB out and open the collar a bit, then use a junk yard ream to clean out and make sure the tubes are round. I can then get an accurate measurement for the seat post size. Smiles, MH
Don't go out looking for aa 26.4 seat pin just yet! I slipped a 26.4 in my Ciocc this morning and it is loose around the collar, and actually rocks enough in the tube to make me think the collar had been sized down due to an undersized seat post having been installed. I am going to pull the BB out and open the collar a bit, then use a junk yard ream to clean out and make sure the tubes are round. I can then get an accurate measurement for the seat post size. Smiles, MH
02-10-23, 04:55 PM
#44
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Its a 56.5-57
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N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
02-10-23, 07:38 PM
#45
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I don't see anything that would require torchwork to fix. To me this is on the borderline between "needs new paint" and "derust, touch up, and ride it." That's a decision between you and your finance minister.
"Mark, in this shop we pronounce Ciocc to rhyme with roach, because most of your bike racers do that stuff."*
*my boss at the first bike shop I worked at, Orinda Spoke and Pedal. We sold them BITD.
"Mark, in this shop we pronounce Ciocc to rhyme with roach, because most of your bike racers do that stuff."*
*my boss at the first bike shop I worked at, Orinda Spoke and Pedal. We sold them BITD.
seat tube end and fork look a bit knackered.
evaporust or similar on the fork, you ARE going to repack the BB and Headset... yes?
not a real Modolo brake caliper fan, I would tear them down, clean and lubricate. It is time.
many like these bikes very much, never found one at a price worth the gamble.
I do have a Grandis that rides like a Colnago...
which I bought thinking I would not catch a Colnago, not I have three my size. Ooops
02-10-23, 08:21 PM
#46
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02-10-23, 09:07 PM
#47
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it is out on the Rust border, slide out the brake cable to confirm condition.
seat tube end and fork look a bit knackered.
evaporust or similar on the fork, you ARE going to repack the BB and Headset... yes?
not a real Modolo brake caliper fan, I would tear them down, clean and lubricate. It is time.
many like these bikes very much, never found one at a price worth the gamble.
I do have a Grandis that rides like a Colnago...
which I bought thinking I would not catch a Colnago, not I have three my size. Ooops
seat tube end and fork look a bit knackered.
evaporust or similar on the fork, you ARE going to repack the BB and Headset... yes?
not a real Modolo brake caliper fan, I would tear them down, clean and lubricate. It is time.
many like these bikes very much, never found one at a price worth the gamble.
I do have a Grandis that rides like a Colnago...
which I bought thinking I would not catch a Colnago, not I have three my size. Ooops
i want to reduce the patina of rust to patina of use and character...going to see how bad the paint truly is before embarking on the costly repaint. Would rather save
Modolos will find a new home I think.
it’s supposed to arrive tomorrow....
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
02-10-23, 09:08 PM
#48
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Apparently I was not ready for the plunge then because that is my size...dang. Hoping this sizes out the same.
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
02-10-23, 09:13 PM
#49
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jdawginsc ,
Don't go out looking for aa 26.4 seat pin just yet! I slipped a 26.4 in my Ciocc this morning and it is loose around the collar, and actually rocks enough in the tube to make me think the collar had been sized down due to an undersized seat post having been installed. I am going to pull the BB out and open the collar a bit, then use a junk yard ream to clean out and make sure the tubes are round. I can then get an accurate measurement for the seat post size. Smiles, MH
Don't go out looking for aa 26.4 seat pin just yet! I slipped a 26.4 in my Ciocc this morning and it is loose around the collar, and actually rocks enough in the tube to make me think the collar had been sized down due to an undersized seat post having been installed. I am going to pull the BB out and open the collar a bit, then use a junk yard ream to clean out and make sure the tubes are round. I can then get an accurate measurement for the seat post size. Smiles, MH
what did we figure the math to be...?
26.6 for an inverted SL and 26.4 for an inverted SP?
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
02-10-23, 09:15 PM
#50
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super