fietsbob

There was a 406 wheel Moulton - Pashley APB that may have been a good off pavement bike..



[I own a heavy rider disc Rohloff pocket Llama]

[R'off chain tensioner a lot further off the dirt, than a long cage RD to attempt to get a similar gear range]







...

downtube

I don't think any 20" wheel folder is made for off roading. The problem is while hitting an obstacle ( or a hole ) a small wheel bike can throw the rider off. Therefore the rider has to learn to move their weight behind the saddle when necessary.

Not trying to toot my own horn, but it will be hard to get a better off road 20" bike than the 9FS. However I do like the Airnimal, not so sure about the BF in the trails.

Thanks,
Yan

tcs

Alex Moulton bikes don't fold, but many models are demountable (they have take-apart frames).

A Pashley APB was ridden end-to-end on the Adventure Cycling Great Divide Mountain Bike Route. That model was upgraded some years ago to the currently available Moulton TSR, a veteran of many Third World tours.

Mtroup

The Great Divide, while not a typical road tour, is less than 3℅ singletrack. The vast majority is dirt and gravel roads. Still an impressive feat, but not quite "off-road" either.

Are there folders that can be ridden off-road? Yeah, there's probably a few, but it's like using a really nice knife as a screwdriver. It may work, but you're gonna destroy that knife.

Dropbear

There are folders built specifically for off-road use, like this one:



But like you said, it's like using a nice knife as a screwdriver. When hitting the trails, I'd just hop onto my Stumpjumper FSR.

Rick Imby

There is no question about the Montague being quite useable as a mountain bike. Their frames are bomb proof.

their warranty---quoted from their website.

"LIFETIME – Frames for the lifetime of the original owner (excluding forks)."

fietsbob

so single track off road , the answer to 20" wheels is No. ?






...

berlinonaut

Maybe it is worth looking at the tread-title and the OP's question again. There's probably no doubt that "classic MTB-sizes" have clear advantages in some situations off-road. I thinks the OP knows this, too. But he explicitely asked for the "best off road 20" folder".
In my eyes this still is the Airnimal Rhino (at least of the bikes that I know). BFs are pretty robust but lack suspension (which is a huge tradeoff offroad). Plus the long stem porbably is a disadvantage when seriously off roading. Moultons may be able to do a fair bit of off roading but they are clearly not built for that purpose and it would be mistreatment. Plus the suspension is not designed for off-road use (far too little travel). The Jetstream may be able to do the job to a degree but with the risk of damage. Plus Dahon themselves say it is a road bike that should not be used off road. And the Downtube (the only one in the list I never saw) looks like a proper bike, but also with limited abilities (or on-purpose-design for off roading) in comparison to the Airnimal. Plus it has a hinge on the main frame which for me personally would be a bit of an issue for an off roader. The Airnimal is built like a tank, well a small tank - in fact like a higher level MTB, just with smaller wheels. Therefor I'd trust it more offroad than the others. No shame on the Downtube though - just by looking at the different price level of the two bikes you can easily see where parts of the difference may come from.

Regarding 20" off road in general one should keep in mind that there is BMX and that there is bike trial. Both done with 20"ers. So, depending on the terrain, 20" may be a disadvantage or even an advantage. No doubt there are situations where the rider needs to have more skills than with a bigger wheeled bike - but I think the OP is aware of this. He doesn't look for the best off roader but for the best 20" off roader.

fietsbob

How many meters long is the track for a bicycle Cross Moto? we have had 2 Olympic courses.

it is off road but an all out sprint to the finish.. no sitting down..




...

berlinonaut

Did you read the page of the guy who uses a Jetstream for that kind of stuff that I liked to earlier in this thread?

Did you try YOURSELF off roading with a 20" bike that was built for that purpose? Or for that matter off roading at all? And what level of off-roading or single trailing are we talking about? You may refer to STS: Home odr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTC_off-road_trail_grades

I used to do a fair bit of mountain-biking in the alps, in Italy and in the German forests. From my memory over the years there were not many situations (if any) that would not have been possible with i.e. a Rhino. As often in life technique beats size most of the time...

Diode100

I looked at the Rhino before I bought the Jetstream, it's a really nice bike but seriously expensive then, and more so now. Check out the folding mechanism first, as folding / unfolding is not something you would want to be doing too often with this (Rhino) bike.

berlinonaut

Fully agreed, especially regarding the fold. Not a bike to hop in and off the subway. Regarding the price: Yes it is expensive. But when you look what a upper level MTB from a smaller company (as in "not a mass product") costs you could easily spend more on that (and many people do). From experience a folder is always a price step up from a non-folding equivalent. Well, here you go. Plus it is kind of a unicorn - I do not know any other folder that is really built for that purpose and on that quality level, so there's not much choice anyway. Airnimals are not cheap but very decent bikes.

fietsbob

Re;#35.. Nah, but NB off road bike wheels have trended to get bigger 26>27.5>29, rather than smaller..

I can use my Bike Friday pocket Llama & can continue riding on gravel roads after coming to the end of the paved portion.

not into driving to trail heads to bike single track , but help yourself.





....

IchbinJay

Good point! When it comes time to purchase, I might actually do that.

It's surprising how few folding off road bikes there are. I've even expanded my search to folding cross bikes, which I guess could include many standard 20" models, and there's still not a lot out there. I think maybe it's just because of the US market. I see a ton of stuff coming out of Japan and Europe.

IchbinJay

I also saw a folding 20" electric fat bike a few weeks back. Anyone ever see one without the motor and battery?

jitenshaman

I had 3 Jetstream (1 P8, 1 XP, 1 EX). I bought the EX 2011 and 6+ years after it is always OK. I upgraded some parts, mainly for better performance and to lighten the bike. The only one thing I was constrained to change, excepting tires, was the rear SRAM dual-drive hub with (broken) internal gear.

I think Jetstream series are not intended for extreme riding, sure. However it's a very versatile bike allowing off-asphalt-road : wood trails and even light/friendly stony paths with some modifications. For hostile trails I'd be more careful.

In urban environment, I can ride aggressively without problems including sidewalk jumps.

Abu Mahendra

how does a new EX frameset with German Kilo A fork for USD600 strike you?

jitenshaman

A new EX frameset including the German-A front shock ?
It's seems to me very reasonable, regarding the very high price of the "Kilo 1.2" front shock around 890 EUR (USD 1047)...

Roegmann

diogo

You really need a Dahon LockJaw series like the Dash with 451 rim

Schwinnsta

I owned a Moulton APB for a few years. It was fine for gravel roads. Single track MTB routes, I would not do it. The shocks were best on some of the pot holed roads found in New Orleans. Before that I had a Moulton Standard, 16--349 wheels. Eventually I found that for myself, shocks on folders not worth while. They do have their place. There are roads that are made more comfortable, thus ridden faste, by shocks. But that is far from all roads. And then there are roads where the energy losses from shocks are just not worth it. I know both of the Moultans I owned were cheap as Moulton's go, but I think the shocks were good enough to make comparison. I like the shock on the Bromptons but it is very light and and only allows for horizontal movement. I have not had 16-inch folder that did not have shocks.

Roegmann

jogya03

I remember about 8-10 years ago a friend had KHS Westwood, sturdy 20" front susp, steel framed folder, and other got DownTube 9FS, alu framed fullsus, which was cheaper compare to KHS and seemed also good value folder. we never really offroading those bikes, but whenever we found rough shortcut road, both of them will lead the group immediately...

L Arnold

I put 2.2" tires on my Dahon Jetstream and take it on lots of "unpaved" tracks. The Jetstream has many features that make it better than most folders. Front and rear suspension, disc brakes, a large frame bridge section and hinge, triangulation on the seatpost tube including a tall seat post tube, and short handlebar post. All add up to make the bike quite capable.

If you want more surety it is easy to reinforce the hinge sections. I would do that with any folding bike if I was doing long tours or generally putting more repetitive loads and stresses into the system.

There are very few of these bikes still in the USA network. I've got a few of them.