wagonfanatic

My girlfriend and I are avid travelers and committed cyclists. We’ve been looking for a foldable touring bike that we can pack on a plane (without additional charge) or bus or train. We also want to be able to go on 1000-mile trips here in the States.

We really don’t want to spend over $1500, but want the bikes to last 25 years, so we are willing to shell out the cash (but nothing over $2k!)

I’ve narrowed our options down to an SS Coupler Bike (the Surly LHT Deluxe), the Brompton, or the Bike Friday. I’ve excluded the Ritchey Breakaway (slightly too large for airlines-- only a few inches but they are only getting stricter), the Co-Motion Americano (SO NICE, just too expensive) and other less common folders because I am willing to pay for a well-known, robust tourer with experience and reputation behind the design.

I’m 6’1, 195, she’s 5’10 150.

So far my research indicates these pros and cons:

Surly LHT Deluxe: (~$1800)
Pros:
1) Full size (well 26 wheels) Touring bike, which we could take cross country anytime (thus wouldn’t need another touring bike)
2) Great geometry for carrying panniers
3) Well-respected Touring bike

Cons:
1) Long pack and unpack time (1-1.5 hours on either end)
2) While we’d learn, steep learning curve for assembling and disassembling the bike-- really a Pain in the arse
3) Expensive-- paying an extra $500-1000 for foldable capability
4) Asian made steel frame-- I’ve heard the S&S couplers degrade the frame since it isn’t modified for them like the Co-Motions

Brompton: (~$1600)
Pros:
1) Folds in about 10 seconds
2) Long-time design, seems very reliable, trusted brand
3) Made to order with our proper specs (handle bars, British Racing Green color, Brooks saddle, ect)
4) Best to fold of all options; Easy to bike to public transit, pack on, ride away (ie, multi transport touring)

Cons:
1) 16 inch wheels--much harder to tourer (I’ve been told?)
2) Also expensive, but less than S&S Couplers
3) Not great for commuting outside of the city? Not sure on this one

Bike Friday Tikit (~$1400?)
Although I did see a Tourer for $800 but Im not sure the specs are right:
Bike Friday - Custom folding and travel bicycles hand-crafted in Oregon

1) Folds Fast (like the Brompton)
2) I hear its the best long-distance tourer of any smaller (not SS) bike
3) Made in the US

Cons:
1) I’ve heard their warranty isn’t Great. My LBS (a very experienced one here in Boston) said they had some warranty issues with them. Not trying to pick a fight but if I’m going to pay top dollar I want excellent warranty service. They no longer stock Bike F and only do Bromptons

keyven

Not sure about the Surly but they really don't seem to be something you want for multi-modal touring. They're more likely to discourage you from impromptu trips as there's going to be a fair amount of pre-planning involved.

With the BFs and Bromptons, it's mostly fold-and-go. I've only owned a 6-speed Brompton so I'd say they are built for your situation. I've heard good things about the Bike Friday warranty, so maybe you should ask around and make sure.

Just google "Brompton Touring" and I believe you'd be surprise at the many blogs that detail Brompton touring. Less so for Bike Friday, though I believe BFs have better upgrade paths, better ride quality and an amazingly quick fold.

prathmann

I'm surprised you heard negative comments about their warranty service. I've had one experience with it and thought it was excellent. I have an early BF Pocket Rocket and when it was about 10 years old I discovered a crack in one of the stays while on a Thanksgiving Day ride. Called up the company on their 800 number that afternoon expecting to leave a message (it was dinner time on Thanksgiving) and someone there picked up immediately and gave me instructions to have the bike sent to them by Fedex at their expense so it could be repaired. I mentioned that there was no rush since I was at home and had other bikes available but one week later I got the bike back from Fedex with a new rear triangle. The bike is now 20 years old and I've had no further problems (beyond an occasional flat tire).

BTW, you list the Tikit model which has the same wheel size as the Brompton (16"). BF markets this model more for the multi-mode commuter although it (and the Brompton) can certainly be used for touring as well. But the BF models specifically targeted towards touring are more the New World Tourist and Pocket Rockets which have 20" wheels (both 406 and 451mm versions of 20" wheels are available). These don't fold quite as quickly as the Tikit (or Brompton), but fit into airline-legal suitcases with a bit of disassembly and folding.

BassNotBass

I own both a Brompton and Bike Friday NWT and love both. I use my Brompton mainly for commuting because of it's quick and very compact fold. It's certainly a very capable bike but prefer the ride quality and handling of the Bike Friday, even over my large wheeled bikes which are now collecting dust. As for Bike Friday's supposed warranty issues, the only negatives I've heard had to do with the voluntary recall of the Tikit's steering stem of which there were only a handful of failures and, IMHO, were addressed as quickly as a small company is capable of. Other warranty claims that I've read about had nothing but stellar things to say about Bike Friday's handling of their respective issues.


That bike comes in three frame sizes, that's two more than the Brompton. I'm a little over 6'2", 33" inseam and 200lbs and my 60cm NWT fits me very well. Alternatively there's the new OSATA with an adjustable frame: Bike Friday - Configure your OSATA 8 spd Safe Routes to School & Fleet bike

wagonfanatic

Okay, great info so far, thanks people!

I think the pushback against the Bike Friday's warranty is a helpful corrective. I wasn't sure if it was just that shop (which it appears to be, or a larger issue).

Great info to on the Bike Friday NWT and Pocket Rocket. I like the idea of a 20inch Tourer that still folds easily. How long does it take to get it down to airline legal specs? Now we'd be folding it down that far not too often. And I image it has an easier, but less compact folding mode for quick folds on trains and buses?

So now the choice is really between a Brompton and a Bike Friday. I'll spec out both for Touring, and post the comparison here later today or tomorrow.

BassNotBass

My NWT does fold but it's not as elegantly as the Brompton. There aren't any catches, snaps or magnets to keep it folded, I use velcro straps to keep everything together. Also my NWT doesn't really roll in the folded position but that's fine since I carry my bikes anyway. I have a Samsonite case to put it in and it takes me less than 10 minutes to pack.

mulveyr 

I don't have a Bike Friday, but there's an interesting thread over on CrazyGuy from Bike Friday owners who use theirs for touring that you might find useful and/or interesting: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/revi...=0&v=28#282394

fietsbob

The 20" wheel travel bikes not in this list ? Happy Bike Friday Pocket Llama Buyer ...

real advantage to 406 20" wheel .. rugged and spares really common ,worldwide ..


349 16" is the tire in common between Brommy & Tikit. here the LBS would have to special-order them, not stocked ..

keyven

It seems the site is critical of a specific retailer's behaviour, but also hints that Bike Friday's 'entry-level' NWT really means ENTRY-LEVEL. And upgrades will be charged at the very top end of the RRP. That's something of a surprise to me.

I strongly suggest you ride both bikes first and compare notes when it is over.

My feeling - never having owned an NWT or Tikit (tried this) - is that you will be extremely thankful for the Brompton's minuscule fold every time you have to bring TWO of it on semi-crowded public transport or pack them for air travel. The Tikit - for me - clearly had the better ride, but the Brompton beats it in almost everything else that matters to me (unobtrusive, tight fold, luggage options).

Having transported a 20" Dahon MU Uno SS on a plane, I'd say packing it was seriously not fun.

wagonfanatic

This link and review was very helpful, thank you! It leads me to just want to source a frame and build the rest myself (I'm by no means a novice mechanic, but If I'm going to be touring, I want to learn how every part comes together, and how it all functions, which a build would certainly further).

I've also just found a used New World Tourer for sale for $900, so thats quite appealing too

invisiblehand

It's a nice touring bike with a strong following. There are tons of modified split Taiwan frames without any issues. My thought is that perhaps there is a theoretical concern with regards to durability but in practice the modification appears to be effective.

Judging from some friends, it is the case that S&S couplers appear to take considerably longer pack/unpack than our Bike Fridays.

You suggest another "pro" in item 1, but I state it explicitly here, having a standard frame and size wheels means that standard components and accessories work with the bike. Not only are more things available, but it's easier to get good advice about "things".

Bromptons are great bikes if they fit your ergonomics. It fit me OK but I never cared for the limited gearing. My wife and I used Brompton/Merc bikes for a while but as soon as we stopped multimode commuting, the bikes were hardly ever used and we sold them. The front bag has a surprising large capacity and it can stay mounted on the bike when it's folded. Although you should probably include the cost of the front bag mount and front bag which are somewhat expensive.

In short, if you're into sporty riding I'd steer you away from the Brompton even if it just so happens to be a good ergonomic fit because of the weirdo gearing. However, if you're really interested in city hopping with lots of leisurely rides and multimode transport ... the fold is small and tidy, it's really good at carrying stuff, and the ride is "OK".

FWIW, I always understand their service as excellent. This is based on my personal experiences with Bike Friday as well as anecdotes from other owners. For instance, my bud HS bought a used Bike Friday which subsequently developed a crack in the seat mast brace. HS contacted Bike Friday and they honored the frame warranty on an ancient bike with no issues at all ... it was an old diamond frame. In fact, since the frame was older, HS asked whether he could get a new frame and Bike Friday offered him a "significant discount" on a Pocket Crusoe. HS walked away ticked pink and they let him keep the old frame which he repaired for around town riding. More broadly, during my personal interactions with Bike Friday folks, they seem to genuinely be interested in my bike satisfaction and ensuring my needs were met. Naturally, YMMV.

My wife and I have a NWT and Pocket Crusoe which we've used for touring and club rides. These have ERTO 406 wheels which offer a much better selection of tires/tubes and, semi-scientifically measured, better performance. Here is an old post I wrote which remains largely true today.

The part-time epistemologist: If you're interested in a Bike Friday ...

It turns out that I recently picked up a Bike Friday tikit with a front-derailer/double-chainring setup. It's still too new to make strong conclusions. But there is little doubt in my head that most people will be more comfortable and have a better riding experience than a Brompton. And there is little doubt that the fold is considerably larger and less tidy than a Brompton. It does roll better while folded and fold faster than a Brompton. I have not packed it yet, but it will certainly pack faster than the NWT. It's a fun-to-ride bike ... something that the boss and I never said about the Brompton even though they use the same size wheels/tires (ERTO 349).

In short, you should think about what type of touring you'll do. If you're on crowded buses & trains and need to sneak the bike into buildings and so on, I'm guessing the tikit will get pretty old fast and I'd point you towards a Brompton. If you want something that is quick and highly portable for a wide range of circumstances, I think the tikit is a good pick. If you want a high quality portable bike that is "flexible" with a modest amount of effort, then I'd strongly suggest the NWT/Pocket Crusoe route.

Good luck.

wagonfanatic

Invisible-- Your comments are very helpful. I think you're absolutely right it all depends on what kind of touring we want to do. While I know we'll be doing some Multimodal touring in Europe and the US, but we also are planning to ride the West Coast in the Summer of 2016.

Now, I have no problem building up a 90s Touring bike for that ride, but it'd be nice to get everything in one. It sounds like the BF New World Tourer is the best option (the Crusoe is well out of our price range). I'm assembling a full comparison spreadsheet now though, trying to figure out the little differences and rank what matters most to us.

Does anyone have experiences with Disk Brakes on the NWT? I've seen a few around, but have never owned a disc-brake bike...

Ozonation

I love my Brompton, but if you're going to do some serious touring... I say go with the Bike Friday. I don't have any experience with Bike Friday nor am I a tourer, and the BF might not be as convenient or elegant of a fold as the Brompton, but hours on the saddle are going to really outweigh the extra 10 to 20 minutes to assemble/disassemble the bike.

wagonfanatic

True. That being said, I'm just really drawn to the Brompton in British Racing Green with a Nice Leather Brooks Saddle...It doesn't help that my girlfriend's Dad is English and a cycling nut so he's steering us that direction...We are also going to be in the Isle of Man this summer of the TT races, so we are scheming picking one up in the UK, riding it around S France, then bringing it home. Who knows though, just having fun scheming

cplager

This is not what you had in mind, but I'll post it anyway.

The Cruzbike Quest 451 can be packed into a single suitcase (including wheels).

David Byrne rode his Cruzbike Sofrider (lower end model) around the world (48,000 Km).

Here's David and his wife Julie (on a Cruzbike Quest with 559 wheels):

wagonfanatic

This is my ideal Brompton:

Steel Frame, Type R, 6-speed with Touring Gears (-12%), British Racing Green, Brooks B17 Saddle, Firm Suspension, Extended Saddle Height.

The upshot? 28 lbs, $1746.

wagonfanatic

Cool, I had not seen this before. Sadly, they are out of our price range (new) and they don't fold quickly for Multimodal travel. Thanks for the suggestion though

DoubleDiamonDog

Hmmm... I was thinking that David Byrne is a Montague man. He looks quite different in that photo, too.

As for best choice for touring, it depends on what you mean by touring. Head-down-eat-up the miles on the bike touring is very different from multi-mode in city, hop a regional flight grab a bus interspersed with half day riding touring. If you want to do both be prepared for compromises, but in the end it will work.

Can't comment on the LTH of BF but I have done some touring on the Brompton. The 16" wheels are fine on pavement but once on a rough stretch of the Camino de Santiago I would have loved to have had 26" MTB tires. The 16"s were okay on a 30 mile stretch of dirt/gravel converted train track but larger would have been better - the bit of shock absorption was appreciated though. These were the only concerns we've had with tire size.

We have done some eight hour days in the saddle. A more aerodynamic riding position would have been appreciated those times, but we were fine, just a bit slower. If you plan to do a lot of that kind of riding, think hard about your choice.

I've tried to hit the downside and will say that, for us, the upside has made it worthwhile. Obviously the quick fold and stash is a great boon for multi-mode in town hopping light rail, bus or taxi. But also handy if you want to grab a bite in the coffee shop while waiting for a bus - just bring it in. Handy if you were sent to the wrong bus stop and have to make a mad dash across town to get there just in time and not have to try to disassemble the bike and pack it before the bus departs. Handy to meet the size and weight limit on a euro regional flight.

I looked hard at alternatives to the luggage before opting for he T-bag which is great - well designed, well made and versatile. Lived out of it for three weeks have have done numerous shorter duration trips. Also looked hard at alternatives to the B-bag for transporting the bike but in the end wanted good protection with the ability to transport it on the bike w/o hassle. We strap ours to the top of the T-bag when traveling between cities / connections but some come up with other ways to transport it. We did not get the rack when we bought our bikes - dealer talked us out of it based on how we planned to travel but you may find it useful if you go w/ Brompton.

smallwheeler

obviously, the dude in chuck plager's pic is an imposter.

i can confirm david byrne has been riding and touring with a montague for some years now. i have seen him several times on the west side highway bike path riding said bike.



i can also confirm that david byrne is an extremely cool human.

Ozonation

Well, that settles it! Brompton it is then!

Now... since you're talking about British Racing Green (BRG)... that was the exact colour I was thinking about. But one of the dealers here in Canada who deals with a lot of Bromptons advised me against the dark colours. According to him, the dark colours don't hold up so well over time after you get some pitting, scratches, general fading, etc. To him, the dark colours never quite appealed. I ended up testing a BRG Brompton (not the configuration I wanted), and it looked great... but I have to admit that in hindsight, the dealer was probably right. The bike, over time, might have looked too - I don't know - "severe"?

I'm sure other Brompton owners will jump all over this! Well, colour is a pretty personal thing...

So what did I get? You might be interested to know that I have the exact configuration of Brompton you want, other than the handle. M bars, 6 speed with reduced gearing (-12%), Brooks B17 saddle, firm suspension, extended seat post. And yes, I also have the T-bag, C-bag, and my wife has the S-bag for her Brompton (red!). I got mine in Sage Green, which two years ago was just introduced by Brompton and according to several dealers, in hot demand at the time. So they said, anyways!

Personally, I sometimes wonder if I should have gotten the BRG, but after a couple of years, I don't really care much anymore. And I can tell you a lot of people have complimented me on the sage green colour.

DoubleDiamonDog

Well, one thing that David Byrne is NOT is predictable. So the idea of a secret wedding, surprising as it may be, is not out of the question. And like David, Julie seems to be pushing the envelope of fashion - she is quite fetching in that floral print and modified cowl neck.


However, if you are correct and C. Plager has been duped into posting a picture of an impostor I think that it damages the brand. Hopefully this will soon be sorted out.

Just to be clear, I consider C. Plager to be an innocent in this matter, likely a victim of the machinations of the impostor.

cplager

Oy vey! You guys are killin' me here.

You can find them used sometimes, but yes, 'bents cost more.

The Quest is what I would call a packable bike (you can get it packed in 10 minutes when your used to it), not a foldable bike.

For less money, you can convert a folding bike like this. You're looking at half the cost and bikes that you can fold as well ask pack (although they still won't fold as small as a Brompton). The reason I build this bike was to have a comfortable bike that I could easily fly with (not that I've actually done that yet):

BassNotBass

Yeah I was thinking the same thing... ain't no way there's DB in cplager's photo... what a cheeky bastard! And yes, David is one hell of an individual (been a fan since ~80 which grew when he did work with Bernie Worell and Lynn Mabry of the P-F conglomerate during the "Stop Making Sense" era) even though I saw an interview of him riding through NYC and I questioned his sanity due to his being able to tolerate (or ignore) a constant clicking from his bike's BB while pedaling (props to his white pants and bucks, BTW).

I had disc brakes on various bikes and they have their pros for sure but as far as non-downhill racing bikes are concerned, their cost/advantages ratio isn't really worth getting stressed over. A well maintained set of caliper or v-brakes will perform beyond necessity in a touring situation in all climates and are normally easier to fix "while on the road" than discs.

FWIW there's no other bike I'd consider touring or taking overseas again than my BF NWT. It's simply awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNa0MbVil_A

wagonfanatic

As much as I want the Brompton, I think I've got a sweet offer in front of me. Tomorrow I'm going to check out this BF NWT

New World Touring (with extra high seat post) with NEW -rear cassette -cabling -chain -front cranks
-disk brakes and pads (BB7's)

I'm inclined to grab it. Thoughts? What would you all pay for it?

1nterceptor

I own a 6 speed Brompton with straight bars. One of the reasons I got it was it's ease
of getting into different forms of transportation. I've brought it inside planes(checked in
inside it's original cardboard box), commuter trains(NYC subway and NJ Path), car(in the
trunk sometimes but usually just by the floor where the rear passenger's feet would go -
and this is a compact car), buses(NYC MTA and NJ Transit/private jeetney) and commuter
ferries/boats. Although I've used it to do explorations on my travels; I don't do bike touring.
I've done 40-50 mile rides on it but I prefer to use my roadbike if I know I'm going on a
100 mile ride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Aq...6zPoymgKaIoDLA

Brompton folding bike; ready for check-in by 1nterceptor, on Flickr