Aerodynamic Gel applied to the body?
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Aerodynamic Gel applied to the body?
Saw it in lengthy scientific paper on cycling aerodynamics.
#2
Super-duper Genius
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Muskrat Springs, Utah
Posts: 1,713
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 768 Post(s)
Liked 983 Times
in
508 Posts
Interesting, if only in an academic way. I'd never realize an advantage from something like this.
I'm curious how it really helps, even for someone who's already maximized his aero efficiency wherever possible... I guess I don't understand enough about aerodynamics.
The little humps on high-end carbon wheels are claimed to reshape the airflow just past the trailing edge of the rim to prevent a stall, which robs power on less advanced shapes.
But vortex generators? These disturb the smooth, laminar flow right next to the surface they're mounted on. You see them on race cars just forward of the spoiler, used to increase spoiler's downforce. They are also sometimes placed on an airplane's wing just forward of control surfaces, ailerons especially, to increase the control surface's authority. In each of these cases, they actually make the entire surface *less aerodynamically slick overall, but the tradeoff is considered worthwhile. (* Technically, what they do is add parasitic drag, a bad thing for airplanes, but again, worth the compromise sometimes.)
How could vortex generators on your body save power? I thought we usually try for maximum laminar flow and minimal turbulence.
I'm curious how it really helps, even for someone who's already maximized his aero efficiency wherever possible... I guess I don't understand enough about aerodynamics.
The little humps on high-end carbon wheels are claimed to reshape the airflow just past the trailing edge of the rim to prevent a stall, which robs power on less advanced shapes.
But vortex generators? These disturb the smooth, laminar flow right next to the surface they're mounted on. You see them on race cars just forward of the spoiler, used to increase spoiler's downforce. They are also sometimes placed on an airplane's wing just forward of control surfaces, ailerons especially, to increase the control surface's authority. In each of these cases, they actually make the entire surface *less aerodynamically slick overall, but the tradeoff is considered worthwhile. (* Technically, what they do is add parasitic drag, a bad thing for airplanes, but again, worth the compromise sometimes.)
How could vortex generators on your body save power? I thought we usually try for maximum laminar flow and minimal turbulence.
Last edited by Broctoon; 06-06-22 at 01:36 PM.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,094 Times
in
1,311 Posts
What is next...?
Trip socks?
Textured fabric?
Trip socks?
Textured fabric?
Likes For GhostRider62:
#4
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,800
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6099 Post(s)
Liked 4,730 Times
in
3,260 Posts
13.9 meters/second is 31.09 miles per hour. I don't normally cruise that fast. I'd imagine any benefit will be much less for me.
#5
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,540
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata GRX
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1873 Post(s)
Liked 1,409 Times
in
978 Posts
"An aerodynamic gel ... that consists of vortex generators in the form of coarse grains embedded in an oil gel." This is old news.
You guys don't borrow your wives' or girlfriends' exfoliating face scrub and apply some on your arms and legs before you ride?
I do. Makes me faster and improves my skin tone. But some of you guys ride a lot more than me, so don't overuse exfoliating face scrub.
You guys don't borrow your wives' or girlfriends' exfoliating face scrub and apply some on your arms and legs before you ride?
I do. Makes me faster and improves my skin tone. But some of you guys ride a lot more than me, so don't overuse exfoliating face scrub.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,645 Times
in
6,054 Posts
Aerogel is the insulation NASA uses in space suits. It's a highly aerated gel, the dead air basically prevents the movement of heat.
Likes For Seattle Forrest:
Likes For koala logs:
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
i guess this shows the extent to which scientists and riders might go looking for new advantages in the attainment of higher speeds -- too weird not to post
Likes For helmet4000:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,755
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3190 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times
in
1,489 Posts
Make sure the UCI bans it for "causing a clear advantage." That will ensure it becomes standard equipment for the weekend warriors and triathlon.
Last edited by seypat; 06-07-22 at 04:23 AM.
#10
Banned.
Vortex generators break the laminar flow into thin layer of turbulent flow that clings better around abrupt curves and results to a smaller, less energetic turbulent wake - less energy lost from drag. While vortex generators and the turbulent airflow also creates drag and losses, the drag would have been higher if you allowed the the flow to separate early.
The dimples in a golf ball is a form of vortex generator to break the laminar flow around the ball and reduce drag. Most airplanes don't need vortex generators because their wing and body shapes present low amount of curvature against the flow and also because the much larger distance the air has to flow around the airplane body and the much higher speeds involved will easily break the laminar flow into a turbulent layer. Some planes use vortex generators but not to reduce drag but to reduce take off and landing speeds. Vortex generators actually increase drag on a plane but does the opposite on our bikes! This is why on airplanes, maximizing areas of laminar flow is better. Still on some planes like gliders because of the narrow wings and low speeds, can present a more abrupt curve against the airflow, use a more discreet version of vortex generator (that looks like a regular electrician's tape but in a zig zag shape) to help air flow around the wings better. Welcome to the complicated world of aerodynamics!
You can put zig zag tape around your bike to try to reduce some drag...But you'll probably need access to wind tunnel with instrumentation to find where to put them that gives best results.
Likes For koala logs:
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,551
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4194 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,780 Posts
Likes For himespau:
#12
Newbie racer
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406
Bikes: Propel, red is faster
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times
in
973 Posts
Once a guy left a "trip strip" of unshaved but short hair on the length of the legs. A pretty "in the know" competitive British time trial racer. The aero socks/covers sold routinely place the two seams at either side of the front of the calf for this same purpose.
The flap at the recent Olympics was the kinesthetics tape that was supposed to be "medical in nature" on certain track athlete's legs. Right........
The flap at the recent Olympics was the kinesthetics tape that was supposed to be "medical in nature" on certain track athlete's legs. Right........
#13
Banned.
I actually use barber's clippers with a short guide on. It trims my leg hairs precisely to 5mm length. It's actually nice. There's enough hair left to make it look natural and not look like you shaved.
#14
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,649
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10241 Post(s)
Liked 11,593 Times
in
5,942 Posts
You could even try leaving it in patterns like the aero socks, if there's enough of it.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
Likes For genejockey:
#15
I eat carbide.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times
in
560 Posts
I was privy to an aero spray solution that was meant to reduce drag when sprayed on frames, wheels, helmets, etc. Also on the skin.
Testing was so-so and the possible negative effects on the skin made it a dead end.
That was being done at "our" level. Testing in a wind tunnel way back over a decade ago. Some products that many use today came about indirectly because of that testing.
FWIW - that secret sauce did really well in cyclocross at acting semi-hydrophobic and keeping the bikes and gear cleaner when being used in bad conditions.
So now maybe some of you understand why the UCI gets all up in arms about sock height. There's a collection of extremely talented people who are constantly looking at new ways to cheat...err... "marginal gains" that no one else has. This is not unlike any racing sport.
I remember one year after racing the Purdue Grand Prix (Go-Kart Race) we had Dick Simon (Indy car guy forever) give our talk at the final dinner. He talked about the core truth to racing: "You have to find the rule that isn't written yet and exploit it so much that you give them a reason to write the rule".
Testing was so-so and the possible negative effects on the skin made it a dead end.
That was being done at "our" level. Testing in a wind tunnel way back over a decade ago. Some products that many use today came about indirectly because of that testing.
FWIW - that secret sauce did really well in cyclocross at acting semi-hydrophobic and keeping the bikes and gear cleaner when being used in bad conditions.
So now maybe some of you understand why the UCI gets all up in arms about sock height. There's a collection of extremely talented people who are constantly looking at new ways to cheat...err... "marginal gains" that no one else has. This is not unlike any racing sport.
I remember one year after racing the Purdue Grand Prix (Go-Kart Race) we had Dick Simon (Indy car guy forever) give our talk at the final dinner. He talked about the core truth to racing: "You have to find the rule that isn't written yet and exploit it so much that you give them a reason to write the rule".
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Likes For Psimet2001:
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,551
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4194 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,780 Posts
Maybe not the aero benefit planned, but minimizing drivetrain losses due to muck sounds like a heckuva benefit to me. At the time, cyclocross may have been a smaller market and not worth the time, but if they could now also market it to gravel riders...
#20
Method to My Madness
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,540
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata GRX
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1873 Post(s)
Liked 1,409 Times
in
978 Posts
Only if you have thick leg hair like a carpet. My leg hair is sparse enough as is to function as vortex generators. Especially if I add a little exfoliating face scrub (as discussed above).