V-brakes vs. Center-pull brakes
11-16-22, 11:36 PM
#51
Cantilever believer
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,522
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 1,778 Times
in
807 Posts
I do have a pair of Racers on my fixie. And although I've adjusted toe-in and other items, I still get the legendary "Mafac sound" much of the time upon application. But they will definitely stop you, as long as the pad rubber doesn't date from the Nixon Administration.
__________________
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Likes For RCMoeur:
11-17-22, 01:25 AM
#52
Dirty Heathen
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 2,182
Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 SoftRide, 1989 Klein, 1989 Black Lightning #0033
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 889 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times
in
534 Posts
I think you keep missing the part where we explained that you have really cheap brakes on your bike.
V-brakes are bog simple to set up; As you've noticed, there's really only the spring tension to adjust. However, those springs are a lot less stiff than the one on the bike you remember from 30 years ago. They really don't need to be very strong, but they need to be able to move smoothly and easily for good operation.
Here's where inexpensive parts start causing trouble: Inexpensive brakes usually have low quality pivot bushings, and the mounting posts on the frame may not be finished well, leading to friction and binding, that causes the inconsistent operation you've noticed.
I've had success bringing these kinds of brakes closer to "acceptable" operation by cleaning and dressing both the inside of the bushings and the mounting posts, and applying some light lubricant before reassembly.
(This is usually reserved for bikes that aren't mine, or I don't plan on keeping; brakes are almost always the first 'hard parts' I upgrade on a bike I plan to ride on the regular)
Likes For Ironfish653:
11-17-22, 01:58 AM
#53
Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
> The only adjustments required are the tension screws
I have found that adjustment to be tricky. If it is not done exactly right, the brakes will not center correctly after releasing, and one pad will rub against the rim. That is a problem that I did not have, even with the cheapest center-pull brakes.
With center-pull, there is one spring pulling the pads apart. No need to synchronize two separate spring tensions, and get each one pulling with just the right amount of tension.
With my V-brakes, even after getting the spring tension adjusted for both springs, it seems to go out of adjustment very easily. Sometimes, for no apparent reason at all.
Perfectly adjusted V-brakes my provide better stopping power. But they seem to be a constant headache to keep adjusted, and really, there is only so much stopping power you need.
I have found that adjustment to be tricky. If it is not done exactly right, the brakes will not center correctly after releasing, and one pad will rub against the rim. That is a problem that I did not have, even with the cheapest center-pull brakes.
With center-pull, there is one spring pulling the pads apart. No need to synchronize two separate spring tensions, and get each one pulling with just the right amount of tension.
With my V-brakes, even after getting the spring tension adjusted for both springs, it seems to go out of adjustment very easily. Sometimes, for no apparent reason at all.
Perfectly adjusted V-brakes my provide better stopping power. But they seem to be a constant headache to keep adjusted, and really, there is only so much stopping power you need.
Likes For Anicius:
11-17-22, 02:06 AM
#54
I’m a little Surly
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,422
Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times
in
647 Posts
Are brakes no kidding this hard for people?
I've never had a brake that wasn't set and forget
I've never had a brake that wasn't set and forget
11-17-22, 02:34 AM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
A LOT of CASUAL bicyclists do NOT know the proper terminology for a lot of bicycle components or parts.
Cheers
11-17-22, 03:00 AM
#56
Dirty Heathen
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 2,182
Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 SoftRide, 1989 Klein, 1989 Black Lightning #0033
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 889 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times
in
534 Posts
Seriously, the majority of the (not Road Bikes) bikes made in the last ~35 years have had either canti's, V's, or disk brakes, so if someone who is not a distinguished, silver -brazed member of this forum, were to hear the term "center -pull" you can see how they might associate it with cantilevers?
In this case, the OP is actually right on his terminology, he's just having a Boomer moment about his cheap V-brakes.
11-17-22, 03:07 AM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
Note: all of this is JMHO, based on my limited experience. And I am not a bicycle mechanic at all.
Way back in the 1990s, I always had center-pull brakes. That was fairly standard. I never had any trouble with them. The only maintenance I have had to do was move the clip further up the wire, or change the pads. Both operations were dirt simple, and rarely had to be done. The brakes allowed for a reasonable amount of slop. For example if tires where not exactly true, it was not a problem. I could take my tire off the bike without releasing the brakes.
Now I have an Infinity Boss 3 from Costco. It has V-brakes, and I find them to be a PITA. I have to adjust them frequently. If the two side are not calibrated just right, the brakes will not spring back correctly, and the brake pad on one side will keep rubbing against the rim. Also, the pads are supposed to be angled so the front grabs the tire first. For the brakes to effective, very little slop is allowed. It is a time consuming and complicated operation. I have to unhook my brakes to take my tire off - and that will probably cause me to have to re-adjust the brakes.
It may be that, if the V-brakes are adjusted perfectly, they have greater stopping power than than center-pull. But how much stopping power do I need? I don't want to fly over the handlebars when I stop.
Maybe it's just me. Maybe the Infinity Boss 3 from Costco has crappy brakes.
Any thoughts?
Way back in the 1990s, I always had center-pull brakes. That was fairly standard. I never had any trouble with them. The only maintenance I have had to do was move the clip further up the wire, or change the pads. Both operations were dirt simple, and rarely had to be done. The brakes allowed for a reasonable amount of slop. For example if tires where not exactly true, it was not a problem. I could take my tire off the bike without releasing the brakes.
Now I have an Infinity Boss 3 from Costco. It has V-brakes, and I find them to be a PITA. I have to adjust them frequently. If the two side are not calibrated just right, the brakes will not spring back correctly, and the brake pad on one side will keep rubbing against the rim. Also, the pads are supposed to be angled so the front grabs the tire first. For the brakes to effective, very little slop is allowed. It is a time consuming and complicated operation. I have to unhook my brakes to take my tire off - and that will probably cause me to have to re-adjust the brakes.
It may be that, if the V-brakes are adjusted perfectly, they have greater stopping power than than center-pull. But how much stopping power do I need? I don't want to fly over the handlebars when I stop.
Maybe it's just me. Maybe the Infinity Boss 3 from Costco has crappy brakes.
Any thoughts?
Examples from a Costco Infinity Hybrid Bicycle.
Cheers
11-17-22, 06:25 AM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pioneer Valley
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 307 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
359 Posts
> The only adjustments required are the tension screws
I have found that adjustment to be tricky. If it is not done exactly right, the brakes will not center correctly after releasing, and one pad will rub against the rim. That is a problem that I did not have, even with the cheapest center-pull brakes.
With center-pull, there is one spring pulling the pads apart. No need to synchronize two separate spring tensions, and get each one pulling with just the right amount of tension.
With my V-brakes, even after getting the spring tension adjusted for both springs, it seems to go out of adjustment very easily. Sometimes, for no apparent reason at all.
Perfectly adjusted V-brakes my provide better stopping power. But they seem to be a constant headache to keep adjusted, and really, there is only so much stopping power you need.
I have found that adjustment to be tricky. If it is not done exactly right, the brakes will not center correctly after releasing, and one pad will rub against the rim. That is a problem that I did not have, even with the cheapest center-pull brakes.
With center-pull, there is one spring pulling the pads apart. No need to synchronize two separate spring tensions, and get each one pulling with just the right amount of tension.
With my V-brakes, even after getting the spring tension adjusted for both springs, it seems to go out of adjustment very easily. Sometimes, for no apparent reason at all.
Perfectly adjusted V-brakes my provide better stopping power. But they seem to be a constant headache to keep adjusted, and really, there is only so much stopping power you need.
Likes For bboy314:
11-17-22, 07:26 AM
#59
Sock Puppet
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
https://www.brandscycle.com/product/...saAl-rEALw_wcB
Likes For Lombard:
11-17-22, 07:50 AM
#60
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,209
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2761 Post(s)
Liked 2,534 Times
in
1,433 Posts
Vs are dead simple to adjust, and there is zero reason to need to re-adjust after unhooking them to remove a wheel.
The problem is that this is a really cheap bike with really cheap parts, and something (either the brakes or the brake mount studs) are faulty.
The problem is that this is a really cheap bike with really cheap parts, and something (either the brakes or the brake mount studs) are faulty.
11-17-22, 10:21 AM
#61
BF's Resident Dumbass
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,566
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 792 Post(s)
Liked 1,494 Times
in
496 Posts
Centering V-brake arms and toeing the pads in has always been a matter of set-and-forget for me. You probably ought to upgrade to better brake arms, and some brake arms of the Litepro brand out of China are surprisingly good for the price. Nicer brake levers are quite affordable and will make a world of difference, too.
No matter what type it is, your front brake is your best friend - if you treat it with respect. Once you've figured out how to use it to steer the bike through tighter turns and adjust your body position on the bike for ideal front-rear braking balance, this whole "flying over the bars" fobia will take care of itself. Take the time to train yourself on that.
I had a single, solitary brake-related crash in my life: It was the summer of 1984, I was 11 years old, I was barreling down what probably was an 11-percent grade street, and I was was on a BMX that only had a front brake. I'll just say that part of your soul dies when 11-year-old girls point at you and laugh. Especially when you're wearing Bermudas and slippers.
No matter what type it is, your front brake is your best friend - if you treat it with respect. Once you've figured out how to use it to steer the bike through tighter turns and adjust your body position on the bike for ideal front-rear braking balance, this whole "flying over the bars" fobia will take care of itself. Take the time to train yourself on that.
I had a single, solitary brake-related crash in my life: It was the summer of 1984, I was 11 years old, I was barreling down what probably was an 11-percent grade street, and I was was on a BMX that only had a front brake. I'll just say that part of your soul dies when 11-year-old girls point at you and laugh. Especially when you're wearing Bermudas and slippers.
Last edited by sjanzeir; 11-17-22 at 12:20 PM.
11-17-22, 10:51 AM
#62
Sock Puppet
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
No matter what type it is, your front brake is your best friend - if you treat it with respect. Once you've figured out how to use it to steer the bike through tighter turns and adjust your body position on the bike for ideal front-rear braking balance, this whole "flying over the bars" fobia will take care of itself. Take the time to train yourself on that.
11-17-22, 11:32 AM
#63
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times
in
1,439 Posts
Likes For Rolla:
11-17-22, 01:08 PM
#64
Newbie
Thread Starter
11-17-22, 01:39 PM
#65
BF's Resident Dumbass
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,566
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 792 Post(s)
Liked 1,494 Times
in
496 Posts
Next, you need a set of nice brake blocks from Kool Stop or Swiss Stop or, at the very least, Avid. The black compound should be more than good enough.
Finally, a pair of compressionless brake housings (Google that) will get you where you want to be. All of this combined shouldn't cost more than 60-70 bucks or so, and you should be able to put it all together yourself.
Likes For sjanzeir:
11-17-22, 02:25 PM
#66
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times
in
1,439 Posts
None of these brake pads are positioned correctly. The two front pads should both hit the rim at the same spot directly across from one another. On the rear, the pad is not aligned with the curvature of the rim. Until these are corrected, all the spring adjustment in the world isn't going to achieve good performance.
Likes For Rolla:
11-17-22, 02:48 PM
#67
Sock Puppet
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
None of these brake pads are positioned correctly. The two front pads should both hit the rim at the same spot directly across from one another. On the rear, the pad is not aligned with the curvature of the rim. Until these are corrected, all the spring adjustment in the world isn't going to achieve good performance.
Last edited by Lombard; 11-17-22 at 02:53 PM.
11-17-22, 03:48 PM
#68
Newbie
Thread Starter
Thank you. I will try adjusting them again. I had to monkey with them quite a bit to get them to work at all. Once I got them to basically work, I didn't want risk having them set so that one pad constantly rubs against the rim after braking.
But this is what I mean. Back when I had center-pull brakes, I never this sort of problem.
But this is what I mean. Back when I had center-pull brakes, I never this sort of problem.
11-17-22, 03:53 PM
#69
BF's Resident Dumbass
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,566
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 792 Post(s)
Liked 1,494 Times
in
496 Posts
If this tends to happen after you've adjusted the arm not to rub and then it starts rubbing after you apply the brake for the first time, then V-brake arm it's bolted to is sticky. Unbolt all four arms from their studs and apply a dab - just a dab - of lubricant, reinstall and test each one for smooth pivot action.
Likes For sjanzeir:
11-17-22, 04:04 PM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
Another thing to look for with sticky V-brakes (or sticky cantilever brakes) is that the end of the stud hasn't been mushroomed due to over tightening of the mounting bolt. I've often improved the braking of either type of brake by removing the brake from the stud, cleaning the stud with a degreaser, then buffing the stud arm, where the brake pivots and then lightly greasing the stud and reinstalling the brake. I use a quality marine grade grease on my bicycle items.
Make sure too that none of your brake pads are touching the tire. A brake pad rubbing against a tire at the rim will soon wear through that tire.
Cheers
Make sure too that none of your brake pads are touching the tire. A brake pad rubbing against a tire at the rim will soon wear through that tire.
Cheers
Likes For Miele Man:
11-17-22, 04:09 PM
#71
Sock Puppet
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
Thank you. I will try adjusting them again. I had to monkey with them quite a bit to get them to work at all. Once I got them to basically work, I didn't want risk having them set so that one pad constantly rubs against the rim after braking.
But this is what I mean. Back when I had center-pull brakes, I never this sort of problem.
But this is what I mean. Back when I had center-pull brakes, I never this sort of problem.
Note that there are tiny phillips screws to adjust the spring. The larger allen fittings opposite the pad surfaces are to adjust the pads to the correct position. Don't touch the tiny phillips screws until you get the pads in the correct position on the brake tracks. Adjust the position (using the allen fittings) with the brake levered depressed and the pads against the rim brake track. Lastly, when your pads are in the correct position, if one of them rubs, tighten the phillips screw on the side that rubs (or loosen the phillips screw on the other side) until you get the two pads equidistant from the rim brake track. Squeeze the lever again, release and then adjust the phillips screws again if necessary.
Hope this helps.
Likes For Lombard:
11-17-22, 04:23 PM
#72
BF's Resident Dumbass
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,566
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 792 Post(s)
Liked 1,494 Times
in
496 Posts
Better yet, drop by the hardware store and pick up four M4x10 or 12 (should be long enough) set screws to replace the original Phillips with. A 2mm Allen key will make your life a whole lot easier as opposed to a Phillips head screwdriver.
And remember: tighten first, loosen last! Screw the adjustment screw one that's rubbing in first until you're happy with how far off the rim it is, and then if you feel that you need to get the other one farther from the rim as well, go ahead and turn that screw in by a quarter of a turn at a time. Repeat incrementally until both pads look about equal. If you feel that one of the pads is too far out at this point, you may tweak the screw by turning it out. Turn the rim around a couple of times while you're at it to see where the runout is.
And remember: tighten first, loosen last! Screw the adjustment screw one that's rubbing in first until you're happy with how far off the rim it is, and then if you feel that you need to get the other one farther from the rim as well, go ahead and turn that screw in by a quarter of a turn at a time. Repeat incrementally until both pads look about equal. If you feel that one of the pads is too far out at this point, you may tweak the screw by turning it out. Turn the rim around a couple of times while you're at it to see where the runout is.
Last edited by sjanzeir; 11-17-22 at 06:01 PM.
Likes For sjanzeir:
11-17-22, 05:01 PM
#73
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,773
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3580 Post(s)
Liked 3,393 Times
in
1,927 Posts
Shimano made a V-brake with a plastic shroud covering the spring. When (not if) the shroud cracks, the spring is only sloppily secured and centering the brake becomes impossible. 
11-17-22, 06:34 PM
#74
Dirty Heathen
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 2,182
Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 SoftRide, 1989 Klein, 1989 Black Lightning #0033
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 889 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times
in
534 Posts
You're Welcome
11-17-22, 09:53 PM
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767
Bikes: lots
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times
in
1,489 Posts
