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What in the Wide World of Sports are these hubs?

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What in the Wide World of Sports are these hubs?

Old 09-28-22, 07:44 PM
  #26  
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I’m not familiar with this brand. Seems very light. Also small braking surface.
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Old 09-29-22, 08:21 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Weyless. I know I have an unlaced, new set of these deep in my hub bin, but I haven't dug that far down in years. Note the cartridge bearing design, which instead of a rubber seal, features some kind of fabric-type material. Asbestos?
Originally Posted by jdawginsc
I wondered about that. Or is some early nylon webbing to create a better seal. They made some unique stuff.
Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
Kinda looks like a thin wafer of fiberglass or fiberboard, you know, the stuff similar to computer boards back in the 60s and 70s?
Probably an early, lightweight, and thin dust shield which appears to have been eschewed on subsequent editions.
DD
Originally Posted by Robvolz
their ad reads, “we seal them with Teflon, which keeps out dust and dirt which is the number one cause of bearing failure.”
except Teflon is a coating, so who knows what the actual substructure material is.
I am going to swap them out. Take them apart and report here.
You guys need to get out a bit more, in the materials science department (@Drillium Dude gets the ding ding ding) -- it's obviously some sort of phenolic (fabric-reinforced sheet with a polymer resin), most likely what's called G-10 or Garolite (epoxy is the resin, typically, and I think fiberglass the fabric for most varieties):
https://www.mcmaster.com/phenolic/
Phenolic has been around for a long time, and I think much of the earlier stuff used cotton fabric, don't know about the resin -- maybe bakelite? The thicker phenolic sheet is used a lot in electronics, even today, though it's available fairly thin too.
I have a pair of these hubs, though the bearings on one of them spin with a "dry" sound. As to disassembling and servicing, I haven't attempted this yet, but here's a BF thread where various things were suggested:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...less-hubs.html

Last edited by Charles Wahl; 09-29-22 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 09-29-22, 09:02 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl

-- it's obviously some sort of phenolic (fabric-reinforced sheet with a polymer resin), most likely what's called G-10 or Garolite (epoxy is the resin, typically, and I think fiberglass the fabric for most varieties):
https://www.mcmaster.com/phenolic/

Phenolic has been around for a long time, and I think much of the earlier stuff used cotton fabric, don't know about the resin -- maybe bakelite?
It appeared to be bakelite to me, too, but I believe that stuff was played out by the mid-70s?

Thanks for bringing phenolic to my vocabulary; I'm almost as excited as the day I discovered what an aglet is

DD
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Old 09-29-22, 10:19 AM
  #29  
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I don't think we had "weight wienie" as a term yet, but Weyless was definitely in that category and regarded as such by many in the racing world. I raced '76-'78. In conservative Boston with John Allis at the helm of Raleigh Century Road Club, it was all Campagnolo (Super Record if you had the bucks) with a few of us outliers riding SunTour/Sugino/Diacompe. (And at key places, the Japanese parts were compatible with Campagnolo. Hub FW threads. Sugino Mighty cranksets and chainrings. (I rode a mishmash of highest and lowest levels of Mighty rings and a Campy SR 43 I won in a race. 42-44 and 52-54.)

Oh, but there was one complete outlier. A conservatively Campy equipped frame that would turn the cycling world upside down. Made by an MIT grad named Gary Klein.
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Old 09-29-22, 10:27 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Robvolz;[url=tel:22662259
22662259]their ad reads, “we seal them with Teflon, which keeps out dust and dirt which is the number one cause of bearing failure.”

except Teflon is a coating, so who knows what the actual substructure material is.

I am going to swap them out. Take them apart and report here.
I had a phenolic resin in mind like old carb floats and spacers.

There were teflon bushings. My CAN-AM swingarm articulated
on them. Was probably a compound of nylon and teflon. A dust seal doesnt sound absurd.
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Old 02-26-23, 11:45 PM
  #31  
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Bumping this thread for some advice.

Would Weyless hubs support a 230 lb. rider? I know that they were designed to be lightweight, but the axles seem stout, like on the old Mavic and Phil Wood cartridge bearing hubs.

As always, any advice is greatly appreciated.
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Old 02-27-23, 01:18 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by tcpasley
Bumping this thread for some advice.

Would Weyless hubs support a 230 lb. rider? I know that they were designed to be lightweight, but the axles seem stout, like on the old Mavic and Phil Wood cartridge bearing hubs.

As always, any advice is greatly appreciated.
You might cross-reference this thread over in the Clydesdales/Athenas sub-forum; cyclists there are generally 200lbs or more. One of them might well have practical experience with these hubs, and be more than willing to share their knowledge with you.

Then, check back in and tell us what you learned. Good luck!

DD
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Old 02-27-23, 04:01 AM
  #33  
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Well those hubs will look fantastic all polished ! Now that I see them they do look vaguely familiar as I likely saw them advertised in some cycling literature or magazine. I've never seen a cartridge bearing seal like that before, I've only seen the rubber/plastic seals. I was wondering about what was meant by a teflon seal myself, so a "ptfe bearing seal" search revealed that apparently, these are but one option for various bearing sealing technologies. The more I read about cartridge bearings the more I realize it's a whole 'nother world. The SKF literature is about the easiest to understand for non-scientists like myself.

https://www.skf.com/us/products/indu...lications/ptfe
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Old 02-27-23, 08:12 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
Kinda looks like a thin wafer of fiberglass or fiberboard, you know, the stuff similar to computer boards back in the 60s and 70s?

Probably an early, lightweight, and thin dust shield which appears to have been eschewed on subsequent editions.

DD
Some American Classic headsets have the same type of bearings with the fiberboard looking seals.
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Old 02-27-23, 08:43 AM
  #35  
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I had good experiences with these hubs, with some caveats. Sometime in late 1978 or early 1979 George Crook of Bikeways of Atlanta out on Chamblee-Dunwoody Road built me a wheelset, 36-spoke Weyless hubs, Mavic Montlhery rims and some sort of butted stainless spokes. I fitted them to my white 1976 Puch Royal X (Austrian!), replacing the stock clinchers. We discussed weight and durability, but since I weighed 125 lbs soaking wet at the time, we concluded I would never have a problem with them. And I didn't. I rode that bike lots and all over, including the 1979 DINGBAT (Discover Impressive North Georgia and a Bit of Alabama Too) 3-day tour with the Southern Bicycle League.

The hubs ran fautllessly the entire time I had them. In the mid-80s I noted that one of the loop skewer handles had a crack where it had apparently rusted, but that happened when I wasn't riding much. I foolishly sold the bike with those wheels in 1987 to a friend in Macon, and it was stolen before I could buy it back.

By freakish chance I stumbled onto THAT EXACT BIKE in 2019. It was in Stone Mountain, Georgia, pretty much exactly as I had last seen it, with a freaky difference - most of the stock parts I had upgraded had itself been replaced. The Weyless tubular wheelset was gone, along with the Berthet pedals, Ideale 90 saddle, and Shimano Crane rear derailleur. Still, it was my old bike, period and it's home now.

If by chance anyone in the Greater Atlanta area runs up on a set of Weyless hubs laced to Mavic Montlhery tubular rims, please let me know!
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Old 02-27-23, 11:00 AM
  #36  
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the good people at Lakeside Bikes, Lake Oswego Oregon (Largest Pegoretti shop in America) swapped out the old sealed bearings for some Phil wood bearings. I will run these on my new (to me) DeRosa as soon as I can start the build up. Bonus, the shop found an extra QR skewer in their junk drawer. Tossed it in for free.

The axels are stout. I can't imagine these not supporting anything less than a circus bear.

Snowed in, binge watching a post mushroom-virus show where gas doesn't degrade and polishing rims at the same time.
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Old 02-27-23, 12:48 PM
  #37  
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-----

Jim McKay received his answer.

btw - the Martano rims seen in photo are likely intended for pista - no need to waste material on a braking surface


-----

Last edited by juvela; 02-27-23 at 12:56 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 02-27-23, 12:53 PM
  #38  
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personally I was quoting Slim Pickens who was quoting Jim McKay. But yes!!
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Old 02-27-23, 03:17 PM
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The dude that lost it on the large ski jump, I wonder how he felt having that clip replayed over and over again.

Last edited by Mr. 66; 02-27-23 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 02-27-23, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. 66
The dude that lost it on the large ski jump, I wonder how he felt having that clip replayed over and over again.
-----

...may have returned home to rewatch The Great Ecstasy Of Woodcarver Steiner a few more times....

"...praise be to Eddie The Eagle..."


-----
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Old 02-28-23, 02:45 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61

...the 1979 DINGBAT (Discover Impressive North Georgia and a Bit of Alabama Too) 3-day tour with the Southern Bicycle League.
That's gotta be the best event title I've ever seen

DD
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Old 02-28-23, 11:32 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
The axels are stout. I can't imagine these not supporting anything less than a circus bear.
Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
You might cross-reference this thread over in the Clydesdales/Athenas sub-forum; cyclists there are generally 200lbs or more. One of them might well have practical experience with these hubs, and be more than willing to share their knowledge with you.

Then, check back in and tell us what you learned. Good luck!
DD
I searched through Clydesdales/Athenas but didn't see any references to Weyless hubs. Based on Robvolz assessment, I rolled the dice and won a used Weyless hubset complete with the original skewers for a reasonable price. Now I have to decide how to build them. Should I get a set of "modern" tubular rims with brake tracks, like Velocity Major Toms or Mavic Reflex SUPs? Or should I keep it period correct and go for a "stupid light" build with the Araya 16B Red rims I already have?
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Old 03-01-23, 10:25 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
their ad reads, “we seal them with Teflon, which keeps out dust and dirt which is the number one cause of bearing failure.”

except Teflon is a coating, so who knows what the actual substructure material is.

I am going to swap them out. Take them apart and report here.
teflon is a plastic. Often used as a coating.
hard and low friction.

namely:

Polytetrafluoroethylene

PTFE is the acronym

Weyless used a sheet with it in it, that might be the fibers in the disc. Not really reusable once removed.

Last edited by repechage; 03-01-23 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 03-01-23, 11:28 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Velo Mule
A lot of race bikes were purchased as frames only and the owner assembled the components to build it into a bicycle. Keep in mind too that most racers were didn't have enough money to build up a complete bike they way they would like. They often had a previous lower end bike that carried over some parts and a subscription to a magazine that had mail order parts available for discount prices.

So, you would build your own wheels. Carry over less than optimal components and end up with a mish-mash, But all that didn't matter. What mattered was how good you were. Nobody cared about which component group you had. Or if you have fancy handlebar wrap.
I was around in the 70's. Yeah, nobody cared at all what components you used, as long as it was Campagnolo Record.
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Old 03-02-23, 12:47 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
The axels are stout. I can't imagine these not supporting anything less than a circus bear.
The axles were one of the things that both Weyless and Phil Wood got right. Most of the later Italian and some of the Asian cartridge bearing hubs used threaded axles, but cartridge bearings do not tolerate misalignment as well as cup-and-cone bearings do, and any standard diameter QR hub axle bows when clamped in. I still like them when they take standard sized bearings because it is so easy to replace the entire unit that it almost doesn't matter how long the bearings last when you can replace them for ten bucks in 20 minutes. Very few regular hubs have replaceable cups and the parts were always difficult to source. These days you need to go to donor hubs and hope for the best, but you can keep a Specialized/Suzue sealed hub going forever. Phil hubs require special tools to replace the bearings, Hi-E forced you to remove the entire hub so you could pull the flanges. I am not sure about Weyless, but it looks like the cartridges press into the hub flanges. The upside with the Phil and Weyless hubs was the miles you could put on them before bearing replacement was required.

I found it interesting that the Weyless ad touts 0.0002 inch precision on the bearings. I hope that was on the O.D. or I.D. and not the bearing internals. Either that, or perhaps they left out a zero, or meant 0.0002 mm, which would be quite impressive.
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Old 06-22-23, 11:33 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by cudak888


Citation needed. Tara was a prop building in California.

The whole story sounds a bit OTT too.

-Kurt
From Velobase: https://velobase.com/ViewBrand.aspx?...8-ee8586d16338

-Robert
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