Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Winter Cycling
Reload this Page >

Schwalbe Winter Marathon self-inflicted flats

Notices
Winter Cycling Don't let snow and ice discourage you this winter. The key element to year-round cycling is proper attire! Check out this winter cycling forum to chat with other ice bike fanatics.

Schwalbe Winter Marathon self-inflicted flats

Old 10-07-21, 06:57 AM
  #1  
MNBikeCommuter
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MNBikeCommuter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 688

Bikes: Cannondale '92 T600 '95 H600 '01 RT1000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Schwalbe Winter Marathon self-inflicted flats

I've been running the Winter Marathons for over ten years now and have consistently had studs causing flats after maybe 3k miles. The stud heads have had some corrosion plus there's some sand/grit along with them in the "pocket." One or the other or both wear through the casing over time and cause a flat. At that point, I've usually just moved the front tire to the rear (as the studs have worn down a bit after 1.5k miles) and put a new tire on the front. What to do with the old rear? There's hardly any tread wear, but all the remaining studs on the two middle rows are ticking time bombs. They sit unused in my basement for now.

I did get the bright idea of putting in a tire liner (Rhinodillos). I had read that the overlap spot can be a problem area so I bought one that was supposed to solve that problem. A year later, the tire went flat out on the road in November. The overlap wasn't the problem. The edge of the strip had abraded the tube, and there were abrasion lines of several inches in several spots. My best guess is that the strips got rave reviews because people use them in nice temperatures. I was biking down to -5F with them here in Minnesota. The nice, soft "compound" probably got pretty stiff and the stiff edge took a toll on the tube.

Recommendations? Are there any liners that WILL prevent the studs from causing flats and WON'T cause flats themselves in the cold? Other suggestions? I need reliability in the cold, and given the price of the Marathons, I don't feel like swapping them out after 1k to make sure they stay reliable...
MNBikeCommuter is online now  
Old 10-07-21, 07:11 AM
  #2  
dabac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,560
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1042 Post(s)
Liked 235 Times in 174 Posts
SMWs are notorious for poor quality control and studs wearing through to the inside. I got far better mileage out of my Nokias/Suomityres. Too bad the tread is so good for bare Ground, ice/hardpack mix. Last pair I got replaced simply by sending a pic of the production code to my national dealer. The replacement pair has studs + in-built flat protection. Theyíre heavy as bad conscience but are holding up well.
What to do with used tires - Iíve cut up one or two into 8Ē pieces and handed them out at swap meets for people to salvage studs from. Iíve reused the beads for various garden projects.
Iíve dug out all of the studs from some and put the tires on beater bikes, which seems to work well enough.
dabac is offline  
Old 10-07-21, 08:08 AM
  #3  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 25,495

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3925 Post(s)
Liked 1,131 Times in 786 Posts
re: disposal https://mtbtime.com/how-to-recycle-bicycle-tubes-tires/
Connecting with your local recycling facility. Research if your local recycling facility takes rubber.
Local bike shops. Ask your local bike retailers about take back programs for old tubes and tires.
Car tire shops. Check with your local tire company if they also accept bike tires.
Mail in programs.

ashamed to admit I've folded mine over, tied them w/ cord & thrown them in the trash. hope to do better next time

haven't had flats as you describe. maybe cause I don't ride as much? maybe because I run a lower pressure, especially with the MTB (I have those tires on 2 bikes)
got 2 flats from this problem (broken wire bead poking thru the rubber). on a set I bought used. 1st flat didn't realize the cause. the 2nd flat shortly after, oh yeah, saw that then. installed last tube I had on me & covered the wire with tape & band aides. it was holding but I hitched a ride back to my car. got lucky cuz it was getting dark & I was in a state forest exploring one winter. it cudda been a long cold walk back to my car
I can not access my photo albums however right now for some reason. luckily google helped me find an old post from 2/5/17 w/ the pics


rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 10-07-21, 10:36 PM
  #4  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 20,903

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3097 Post(s)
Liked 1,216 Times in 816 Posts
My Suomi Mount & Grounds have yet to exhibit any of these issues. They're definitely not my favorite tires to ride, but I can at least worry about other things. No liners or extra-thick tubes needed.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is online now  
Old 10-11-21, 05:59 PM
  #5  
AJW2W11E
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
It's good to see people are so conscientious.
AJW2W11E is offline  
Likes For AJW2W11E:
Old 10-11-21, 08:41 PM
  #6  
AJW2W11E
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
It's good to see people are so conscientious.
AJW2W11E is offline  
Old 10-12-21, 07:22 PM
  #7  
sweeks
Senior Member
 
sweeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 1,776

Bikes: Airborne "Carpe Diem", Motobecane "Mirage", Trek 6000, Strida 2, Dahon "Helios XL", Dahon "Mu XL", Tern "Verge S11i"

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked 202 Times in 158 Posts
Originally Posted by MNBikeCommuter View Post
Recommendations? Are there any liners that WILL prevent the studs from causing flats and WON'T cause flats themselves in the cold? Other suggestions? I need reliability in the cold, and given the price of the Marathons, I don't feel like swapping them out after 1k to make sure they stay reliable...
I've been using Marathon Winters for over 10 years on a folding bike with 20" wheels. I had some of those self-inflicted flats after the first couple winters. The rear tire deteriorated fastest. I would have bullet-proof performance the first year, then the occasional flat. As you point out, flats in the cold are not fun; I'd go farther and say on a commuting bike they are unacceptable.
I have for several years now been using "Mr. Tuffy" tire liners. I have had *zero* flats except for a valve stem that conveniently came off after arriving at work. Also, I have not had the experience reported by others of flats caused by the tire liners themselves. I don't get as many miles as you report; on the rear, I probably get 1,500 miles on a tire, probably 50% more than without the tire liners. This may be because they are 20" tires.
Installing the liners is a bit of a challenge, but I've been using double-sided tape rated for "outdoor use" to keep them in place while mounting the tires (8 one-inch strips).
I have a set of Nokian "Extreme 296" tires that are used on my mountain bike, not for daily commuting. These are several years old and have not deteriorated appreciably. I am unable to say for sure that this is due to higher quality because the use is so different.


This Marathon Winter is probably shot, but no flats resulted over its last winter due to the use of a tire liner.




Here's a Marathon Winter with one winter season on it. Early signs of stud wear-through can be seen. At the right, the end of the tire liner is seen.



Two of the eight strips of double-sided tape in place. These make installation of the tire liner much easier. The red plastic is removed to expose the adhesive.

Last edited by sweeks; 10-12-21 at 07:32 PM.
sweeks is offline  
Old 10-12-21, 08:19 PM
  #8  
AJW2W11E
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by sweeks View Post
I've
I have for several years now been using "Mr. Tuffy" tire liners. I have had *zero* flats except for a valve stem that conveniently came off after arriving at work. Also, I have not had the experience reported by others of flats caused by the tire liners themselves. I don't get as many miles as you report; on the rear, I probably get 1,500 miles on a tire, probably 50% more than without the tire liners. This may be because they are 20" tires.
Installing the liners is a bit of a challenge, but I've been using double-sided tape rated for "outdoor use" to keep them in place while mounting the tires (8 one-inch strips).
Lol I thought I was the only one who cheated. I use that 3M spray on adhesive you get at Home Depot. Made for gluing headliners inside a car, etc. .
Google 3M Super 77. Yes I put Mr Tuffy liners inside my Schwalbe Marathons also.
AJW2W11E is offline  
Likes For AJW2W11E:
Old 10-15-21, 09:53 AM
  #9  
MNBikeCommuter
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MNBikeCommuter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 688

Bikes: Cannondale '92 T600 '95 H600 '01 RT1000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Well, I will go ahead and give the Mr. Tuffys a try and see what happens. I'll plan on checking for chafing a time or two this winter at least rather than naively riding assuming the best with the Rhinodillos.

Another tidbit is that the middle row of studs seem to wear down to the point of not being effective in about the same mileage as the studs causing flats. After 1500 miles on the front, I notice they aren't doing as well on ice, but still work fine enough on the rear. And by the time I've gotten the rear flats, they aren't doing so well there either. The thought crossed my mind to swap the inner and outer rows of studs, but that would be quite a job...

So then I lament about how quickly the tires are shot compared to the cost, but then realize it's still well worth it for all the hours I do get out of them (and out of the house, and no gym membership, and...)
MNBikeCommuter is online now  
Old 10-15-21, 11:19 AM
  #10  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 25,495

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3925 Post(s)
Liked 1,131 Times in 786 Posts
Originally Posted by MNBikeCommuter View Post
Well, I will go ahead and give the Mr. Tuffys a try and see what happens. I'll plan on checking for chafing a time or two this winter at least rather than naively riding assuming the best with the Rhinodillos.Another tidbit is that the middle row of studs seem to wear down to the point of not being effective in about the same mileage as the studs causing flats. After 1500 miles on the front, I notice they aren't doing as well on ice, but still work fine enough on the rear. And by the time I've gotten the rear flats, they aren't doing so well there either. The thought crossed my mind to swap the inner and outer rows of studs, but that would be quite a job...So then I lament about how quickly the tires are shot compared to the cost, but then realize it's still well worth it for all the hours I do get out of them (and out of the house, and no gym membership, and...)
so rotating them front to rear each would be helpful. I don't ride as much as you but I should at least keep track & try to rotate mine, or at least visually inspect those center studs before deciding which goes where. as to the cost, one might also consider the cost of a broken hip, if one falls ... a year or so ago I made the mistake of waiting to long to put them on (the year before I put them on too early)

was surprised how far the bike slid after I fell

the long version is you need help going to sleep

same place, a little later, w/ the studs


rumrunn6 is offline  
Likes For rumrunn6:
Old 10-16-21, 10:38 PM
  #11  
sweeks
Senior Member
 
sweeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 1,776

Bikes: Airborne "Carpe Diem", Motobecane "Mirage", Trek 6000, Strida 2, Dahon "Helios XL", Dahon "Mu XL", Tern "Verge S11i"

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked 202 Times in 158 Posts
Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
...as to the cost, one might also consider the cost of a broken hip, if one falls ...
Hahaha... that's my response to people who complain about the cost of the tires: "What's the co-pay on a broken hip?"
I haven't found wear on the studs themselves to be a problem. The rubber degrades first, in my experience... possibly this has something to do with the 20" size.


No slipping with 26" Nokian "Extreme 294" tires.
sweeks is offline  
Likes For sweeks:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.