CliffordK

As far as Meth (SPEED). A lot depends on the dose and usage. In some cases it can speed up reaction times, and help as a cognitive enhancer.

But, using it to prevent drowsiness may have other impacts including perhaps attention deficits.

I wonder if the impact could be similar to making poor choices with sleep deprivation, even if one is moderately alert.

I'm not sure if one can say SPEED was the only cause of the accident, but it may have been one of several factors that increased the risk.

Korina

The angle of the sun is as irrelevant as whether the cyclists had flashing lights; the truck driver admitted on camera to falling asleep at the wheel.

CliffordK

I didn't see "falling asleep" confirmed earlier. It sounds like the driver was still struggling to make sense of what happened, and prompting by the officer didn't help.

There seems to be enough evidence of impairment that I'm surprised the police didn't take the driver into custody sooner.

jppe

Just talking out loud:
From the video I was wondering about the truck driver’s reactions as well. They certainly appeared to be “off” to me. But I also wondered if some of it could have been from the mental shock of what he’d done. Or if he was already thinking about what was going to happen to him after what he’d done......loss of job, legal issues, knowing he had meth in his system, imprisonment, killing people, seeing lifeless bodies, etc. I guess only the truck driver knows??

The patrolman appeared to be sympathetic, but that might be part of his training trying to get all the facts as soon after the incident as possible, or maybe just a reflection of his personality???

Just my observations from the videos I’ve seen. Just a horrific situation.

CB HI

High level of meth in the driver, but he claims he fell asleep, but he woke up to see bicyclist, but he does not remember anything that happened. What a bunch of BS claims from the driver.

CliffordK

Thankfully I've never been in that situation. But, there are times that when I get very nervous that I will get physically cold to the point of shivering.

These early videos are helpful to understand a person's thinking before they have time to talk to their lawyers and formulate a "story". But, I'd imagine the man was fully in shock, and still trying to make sense of what happened, and why he hadn't recognized the cyclists until it was too late.

JoeyBike

In any accident there is usually a cumulative effect of bad things happening all at once. Dude was on meth, falling asleep, driving into the sun. None of these things were helpful in avoiding a disaster.

Just a side note. Meth heads are the least of my worries.

"Research backs up that concern. People prescribed sleeping pills are nearly twice as likely to be in a car crash, according to 2015 study in the American Journal of Public Health (PDF) that looked at the medical and driving records of nearly 410,000 adults. The researchers estimated that people taking sleep drugs were as likely to be in a car crash as those driving with a blood alcohol level over the legal limit." LINK

"According to the latest numbers, roughly 9 million Americans — 4% of U.S. adults — use prescription sleep aids, or medications that can help with insomnia and other sleep issues." - Google search for "How many Americans take sleeping pills?" (13,128,000 = 4% of total number of adults in USA in 2019)

So total up the number of meth heads, sleeping pill users, drunks, and just exhausted people, plus electronic distractions, dogs, kids, etc., and what percentage of motorists passing you are 100% awake and focused when they pass YOU? Ah, relax! I'm sure you'll be OK on that freeway.

Korina

Here's a longer segment of the footage.

CliffordK

Several important details in the article:

We don't know for sure whether or not he used meth the day of the crash. But, of course SPEED caused him not to sleep well. And, if he was coming down off of a high, then that could also indicate that he could have been experiencing a post drug slump. High blood levels could also indicate having already built up some tolerance for the drug.

Likely they don't like to give false information on TV, but it sounds like there should have been adequate suspicion to hold him after the crash.

This is one additional point of evidence that the car and trailing group of cyclists were likely on the roadway.

Paul Barnard

Driving into the sun, with it at the angle it was at, did NOT diminish his ability to see them one damn bit.

JoeyBike

With a sun visor pulled down, the view up the highway would be obscured. Not a big deal for vehicles moving at roughly the same speed but for vehicles basically "standing still" in the roadway there would be seconds, or fractions of a second to react once the cyclists popped into view under the visor. Have you EVER driven directly into the sun? Even as far south as I live the sun is pretty low all day during the winter season. I never pull the visor down below the distant horizon but some people do. How do you KNOW what he did? He may have a light sensitivity. Many people do. If you are psychic I'm sure you'd be spending your time at the racetrack instead of this place.

CB HI

Did you even watch the video of him swaying all over the place on the sobriety test walk? Have you ever driven on a western desert highway with extremely long sightlines?
I live in Hawaii and have traveled east in the morning to work and west in the evening home for decades (so much farther south than you) and the sun is no excuse even here and I do not find it a problem.

The guy drove the same route everyday, if the sun was a real problem on the route, the guy would wear polarized sun galsses already.

So please drop the incessant sun in the eyes excuse for this guy and the other threads you toss it out in.

CliffordK

Vegas is quite far south. But, being in the Northern Hemisphere, the issue is being further north, and the sun being at a lower angle to the southeast in the morning and southwest in the evening, and hanging there for a bit longer.

Nonetheless, this accident wasn't caused by a single factor. But, multiple factors working together to make this a very dangerous situation.
..
The crash was caused by a combination of factors. Take out a few of the contributing factors, and the crash would not have happened.

If the bikes had been on the shoulder, and not behind the SAG, the truck would likely have flown by at 75+ MPH, and there wouldn't have been a crash. Of course, he might have eventually found the only tree in Nevada to crash into. The guy clearly shouldn't have been on the road in that condition.

I think the driver was suffering from a combination of Shock and Drugs at the time of the interview/walk. 9 steps on a line, heel to toe with hands at side can induce some shakiness by the nature of the test, although the guy's balance was pretty bad.

JoeyBike

Denial does not change reality.

"As we begin to head into our snowy season here in New England bad weather is sure to cause more car accidents. But studies show, sunny days can be even more hazardous. One recent study has shown that serious car accidents increase by 16% when it's very sunny and glare is present. Another study has shown that as many as 9000 accidents relating to sun glare occur each year! That’s more than caused by icy roads." LINK

You are free to keep cycling into the sun on busy roads of course. Your denial has no bearing on your results. So many people are living in alternate realities these days.

CB HI

Odd that you did not include the title of the article:

Being Blinded By The Sun While Driving Is Not A Good Defense To A Car Accident

Spada Law Group

JoeyBike

Dead cyclists don't care who gets the blame. Perhaps a few living cyclists will consider their actions more carefully knowing that the sun is a significant factor. Your car tires breaking free on icy or wet roads is no excuse for causing an accident either.

I try to stack the odds in my favor while playing on the highway. Cycling into the sun adds risk. Read more than the header and learn.

CB HI

From other post after your days of splitting lanes and running red lights to the extreme, to your new fearful epiphany seems to stack the odds in your favor by only riding in the park. Sometimes the sky falls just as hard in the park as it does on the highway.
You must not drive either because the odds are not stacked in your favor with 30,000 deaths a year. And really; extreme exaggeration for more fear mongering from you "sun is a significant factor".

Digger Goreman

No excuse for hitting anything from behind... period.

Only the long promoted and practiced entitlement of the motored paradigm demands otherwise.

Until lives are treated equally, convienence dispelled as the illusion it is, and dollars subordinated to living harmoniously, will these selfish-driven killings cease....

rydabent

IMO anyone involved in an accident that has alcohol or any illegal drug in their blood should have their sentence DOUBLED!!!!!

JoeyBike

We live in an imperfect world. Humans are far from perfect by nature, then add drugs and distractions and we are assured of accidents of all kinds. This is the world we live in but we still have choices about how, when, and where we recreate. Cyclists are going to continue getting steam-rolled from behind on high speed roads so long as humans are controlling the vehicles. You can deny, wish it were different, or control the only thing you can: YOUR behavior.

rydabent

IMO anyone involved in an accident that has alcohol or any illegal drug in their blood should have their sentence DOUBLED!!!!!

JoeyBike

Is this Advocacy and Safety, or Ignore and Deny?

I have cycled across the USofA five times on a touring bike completely self contained. Since I am an early riser, I try to start my trips in the East and ride to the West. With my back to the sun I am easier to SEE, and the sun isn't aggravating me right in my face. The most miserable, dangerous trip I ever did was from New Orleans to the Georgia coast. I learned to get a later start pretty quickly AND wait until after rush hour near cities. If someone likes to lay in the tent until mid-day, perhaps they should consider touring West to East instead.

^^This is what I am talking about. Can anyone deny that being lit up by a sun to my back is as dangerous as having the sun in every motorist's sleepy eyes roaring up behind me? There are lots of things cyclists can do to tilt the field in their favor. But like most people operating vehicles they push off without concern and leave their safety in God's hands. I'm not here to tell anyone to stop cycling, just be smart about it and aware that vision is not a perfect sense. You can wear fifty blinkies and all the neon you want to, but NOT BEING THERE, in that risky situation, is the most foolproof method of not getting hozed from behind.

Advocacy and SAFETY.

JoeyBike

How about the legal drugs? So how many motorists passing you on the highway are free from ANY substance that is proven to impair driving ability? I bet the percentage of "squeaky clean" motorists is pretty small.

"It’s not just prescription medications, but over-the-counter products as well...you can be charged with a DUI if caught driving hazardously while taking prescription or OTC meds, even if your doctor wrote you that prescription."

1. Pain relievers
2. Antihistamines
3. Antidepressants
4. Antihypertensives
5. Antianxiety agents and muscle relaxants
6. Stimulants

Yes, even caffeine.

SOURCE

The world is imperfect. Enter at your own risk. Or take actions that give you an advantage.

JoeyBike

So how many times will it take. How many cyclists will have to bet blown up from behind riding into a blinding sun before YOU make the connection. I know you aren't stupid. This is some serious denial going on here. Looking into the sun is uncomfortable at minimum, causing motorists to squint, drop the sun visor, accentuate the filth on a windshield, or just avert their eyes elsewhere. I mean, this is the ONE thing cyclists can do (or not do) that actually makes a difference in highway safety. To not even acknowledge a blinding sun can be an additional factor in causing an auto accident is just......

CliffordK

It may be difficult to organize a century ride, always in optimal riding conditions. But it is something that can be considered.

In this case, the sun would have already been getting better by mid-morning when the accident happened, although perhaps shifting more from east to south.

I probably wouldn't have worried about the sun by 9:00 AM, although I was driving up in Washington a few days ago, and found myself shifting the visor around at about 10:30.

While recreational riders can choose their routes, commuters have other demands on the times and routes they take. And, aren't blessed with safety vehicles.