Question about Leg Shaving
#101
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,095 Times
in
5,053 Posts
When I was on blood thinners (Eliquis) for about 6 months due to clots in both lungs (side effect of Stage 4 Lung Cancer), small cuts seems to bleed forever, so I was scared to ride and fall and get unknown internal bleeding, so my riding was dramatically reduce at that time.
I've been on Eliquis since last election day, and just resumed long distance riding a couple months ago. I'm probably on a lower dose than you, because my cuts do clot fairly normally, just take a little tiny it longer.
I didn't have the cancer, but I can tell you I'm not a fan of bilateral lung blood clots. They messed me up good.
#102
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,516
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20808 Post(s)
Liked 9,450 Times
in
4,668 Posts
#103
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,214
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18397 Post(s)
Liked 15,492 Times
in
7,316 Posts
When I was hospitalized for three days back in November I was on constant heart monitoring. They used industrial strength patches. The large, round ones. Talk about painful to remove. Left some spots on the chest hairless. Definitely thought of that film scene.
#104
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,097 Times
in
1,314 Posts
That's beside the point, the real issue is the reduction in drag figures for the item in question, for example one kind of skin suit vs. tight-fitting clothing. The formula you linked, like all formulas, is clearly vulnerable to gi/go. Manufacturers and marketers have every incentive in the world to make it look like the stuff they're selling has a noticeable effect, so if you use their equipment and methods for measuring the effects of anything including shaving, they may have built-in assumptions that grossly overstate the number being multiplied. You think it's just simple math to verify the .02 reduction figure you used for shaving? I saw that figure given as a result of a wind tunnel experiment done by Specialized, is that where you got it? Obviously, the closer that number is to zero, the less the differential in time at various speeds, so if Specialized's methods err on the high side, that's going to cook things in ways your "simple math" won't detect..
I have actually measured these sorts of things myself. Every change I make, I measure. Of course GI/GO is a problem. If you don't believe specialized wind tunnel data, ok. Google Swiss Side, they also measured it. It is pretty easy to measure the change in CdA from one helmet to another or one jersey to another. Once you have change in CdA, estimating the change in speed or time is easy.
Specialized isn't the only one to measure the effect of shaved legs. I have seen more like 8W. Specialized results surprised me as I said.
#105
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,842
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6934 Post(s)
Liked 10,940 Times
in
4,674 Posts
The nurses or assistants at my cardiologist must be sadists. If I don't shave my chest before going, they don't shave at all. So it's sort of like Steve Carrel's character in The 40-Year-Old Virgin. Go to 2:10 if it doesn't start at that time:
https://youtu.be/rQ9-pJQtodQ?t=130
I always shave before going to anyone that might do an EKG or similar test on me. Shears that you use for haircuts are more than close enough. I use those height combs on them that leave about a 1/4 inch. That seems to not pull as bad if it's that or shorter.
https://youtu.be/rQ9-pJQtodQ?t=130
I always shave before going to anyone that might do an EKG or similar test on me. Shears that you use for haircuts are more than close enough. I use those height combs on them that leave about a 1/4 inch. That seems to not pull as bad if it's that or shorter.
#106
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
I've heard of two reasons why pro's shave their legs and neither reason is because it makes them more aerodynamic. (There maybe some evidence that hairy legs actually increase aerodynamics; the hair my hold a boundary layer of air. Think of dimpled golf balls. Also several riders in this year's Tour are sporting beards. If hair really affected aero, those guys would probably shave. And there's Pocacar's hair sticking out of his helmet all over the place)
The first is to help with road rash and scabs. A second reason I've heard is to make it easier for the masseuse that travels with pro teams to give them their after ride rub down. Since few of us mortals have a masseuse on retainer, I think that excuse for shaving goes away.
The first is to help with road rash and scabs. A second reason I've heard is to make it easier for the masseuse that travels with pro teams to give them their after ride rub down. Since few of us mortals have a masseuse on retainer, I think that excuse for shaving goes away.
Likes For caloso:
#107
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,097 Times
in
1,314 Posts
I've known Ashton since way back before he was famous, even before he had the 'stache. He regards it as a mojo thing. Aerodynamics aside, he'd be slower without it.
Most people take "marginal" to mean "small," but in my field is just refers to any quantifiable change from the status quo. I tend to view those things in terms of benefit vs cost: for instance, fancy aero wheels might cost a fortune, but an aero jersey costs far less - and I need a new jersey every now and then anyway. So, that one is a no-brainer.
Most people take "marginal" to mean "small," but in my field is just refers to any quantifiable change from the status quo. I tend to view those things in terms of benefit vs cost: for instance, fancy aero wheels might cost a fortune, but an aero jersey costs far less - and I need a new jersey every now and then anyway. So, that one is a no-brainer.
How much to spend for 1 watt is a good question. How many hours does it take to improve the engine 1 watt? What happens when the engine can't get any stronger but only weaker? It is all a tradeoff. I worked my tail off one year to gain a lousy 11 watts. How much would someone spend for 11 watts? Some won't spend a penny, for others money is no object. Helmets are not too expensive and they offer potentially a reasonable gain but the problem? A helmet that works well on me might be a drag for you. I probably have over $1000 of helmets laying around or about what an entry level set of fast carbon wheels run. Selecting the wrong front tire can be disastrous and that is a freebie, too.
How high to shave? I go just above where my casual shorts would sit.
Likes For GhostRider62:
#108
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,097 Times
in
1,314 Posts
I've heard of two reasons why pro's shave their legs and neither reason is because it makes them more aerodynamic. (There maybe some evidence that hairy legs actually increase aerodynamics; the hair my hold a boundary layer of air. Think of dimpled golf balls. Also several riders in this year's Tour are sporting beards. If hair really affected aero, those guys would probably shave. And there's Pocacar's hair sticking out of his helmet all over the place)
The first is to help with road rash and scabs. A second reason I've heard is to make it easier for the masseuse that travels with pro teams to give them their after ride rub down. Since few of us mortals have a masseuse on retainer, I think that excuse for shaving goes away.
The first is to help with road rash and scabs. A second reason I've heard is to make it easier for the masseuse that travels with pro teams to give them their after ride rub down. Since few of us mortals have a masseuse on retainer, I think that excuse for shaving goes away.
It isn't hard to self massage, just elevate the legs against a wall and massage away.
Beards are not the same as legs. Aerodynamics are funny that way. Specialized's video commentator said that beard vs no beard was essentially identical. The data was on the screen, you can see for yourself.
#109
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 4,128
Bikes: Rossetti Vertigo
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times
in
70 Posts
The more I read some of these responses, the more I believe that some of you just have a shaving fetish. Nothing wrong with that if that's your thing, but grown men spending who knows how long to shave their legs on a regular basis in order to save half a second applying sunscreen....or to prevent some kind of road rash issue (seriously, how often are some of you crashing???)....or simply because you think it makes your legs look pretty.... I mean, OK I guess.
#110
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,516
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20808 Post(s)
Liked 9,450 Times
in
4,668 Posts
#111
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,095 Times
in
5,053 Posts
The question became not whether shaved legs offer an advantage but whether any reduction in CdA benefits a slower rider. A slower rider benefits more in time, that was my key point.
I have actually measured these sorts of things myself. Every change I make, I measure. Of course GI/GO is a problem. If you don't believe specialized wind tunnel data, ok. Google Swiss Side, they also measured it. It is pretty easy to measure the change in CdA from one helmet to another or one jersey to another. Once you have change in CdA, estimating the change in speed or time is easy.
Specialized isn't the only one to measure the effect of shaved legs. I have seen more like 8W. Specialized results surprised me as I said.
I have actually measured these sorts of things myself. Every change I make, I measure. Of course GI/GO is a problem. If you don't believe specialized wind tunnel data, ok. Google Swiss Side, they also measured it. It is pretty easy to measure the change in CdA from one helmet to another or one jersey to another. Once you have change in CdA, estimating the change in speed or time is easy.
Specialized isn't the only one to measure the effect of shaved legs. I have seen more like 8W. Specialized results surprised me as I said.
I understand that CdA is easy to calculate based on shape, but I don't think there's any way it's simple to calculate based on texture, which is a really micro-level.
Ultimately, though, I think the "bigger benefit for the slower rider" is still sales claptrap. I don't think people topping out at 15 mph are really being held back significantly by small variations in wind resistance, but generally topping out at a speed they're comfortable with. They're generally not doing the big things to reduce air resistance. Seriously, how many people do you see in a tuck riding at 15 mph on flat ground?.
#112
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,095 Times
in
5,053 Posts
The more I read some of these responses, the more I believe that some of you just have a shaving fetish. Nothing wrong with that if that's your thing, but grown men spending who knows how long to shave their legs on a regular basis in order to save half a second applying sunscreen....or to prevent some kind of road rash issue (seriously, how often are some of you crashing???)....or simply because you think it makes your legs look pretty.... I mean, OK I guess.
I don't care about shaving legs much one way or another, but boy did you lose me with this post. Sheesh, talk about selective reading....
If you ride several thousand miles a year, pretty good odds you'll get a spot of road rash once in a while.
#113
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,354
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,943 Times
in
1,905 Posts
References to a classic and hilarious movie, the Big Lebowski:
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Donny, you're out of your element!
References to a classic and hilarious movie, the Big Lebowski:
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Donny, you're out of your element!
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
Likes For Troul:
#115
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,097 Times
in
1,314 Posts
I understand that CdA is easy to calculate based on shape, but I don't think there's any way it's simple to calculate based on texture, which is a really micro-level.
Ultimately, though, I think the "bigger benefit for the slower rider" is still sales claptrap. I don't think people topping out at 15 mph are really being held back significantly by small variations in wind resistance, but generally topping out at a speed they're comfortable with. They're generally not doing the big things to reduce air resistance. Seriously, how many people do you see in a tuck riding at 15 mph on flat ground?.
Ultimately, though, I think the "bigger benefit for the slower rider" is still sales claptrap. I don't think people topping out at 15 mph are really being held back significantly by small variations in wind resistance, but generally topping out at a speed they're comfortable with. They're generally not doing the big things to reduce air resistance. Seriously, how many people do you see in a tuck riding at 15 mph on flat ground?.
I seriously do not understand your arguments. Who tucks at 15 mph? Who even suggested that? The fact that you still think ""bigger benefit for the slower rider" is still sales claptrap" tells me you have not really looked at the evidence presented. Who races at 15 mph? OP sounds like a sportif or racer type rider. Nonetheless, there are significant aero benefits to harvest even at the modest speed of 15 mph.
I am not going to respond anymore to you, so, good luck to you.
#116
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,095 Times
in
5,053 Posts
I did not say calculate CdA. There are a variety of ways to measure on the road. The easiest and most accurate is using the RChung method. You can Google it if you want measure your aero profiles and changes to kit, bike, position, etc.
I seriously do not understand your arguments. Who tucks at 15 mph? Who even suggested that? The fact that you still think ""bigger benefit for the slower rider" is still sales claptrap" tells me you have not really looked at the evidence presented. Who races at 15 mph? OP sounds like a sportif or racer type rider. Nonetheless, there are significant aero benefits to harvest even at the modest speed of 15 mph.
I am not going to respond anymore to you, so, good luck to you.
I seriously do not understand your arguments. Who tucks at 15 mph? Who even suggested that? The fact that you still think ""bigger benefit for the slower rider" is still sales claptrap" tells me you have not really looked at the evidence presented. Who races at 15 mph? OP sounds like a sportif or racer type rider. Nonetheless, there are significant aero benefits to harvest even at the modest speed of 15 mph.
I am not going to respond anymore to you, so, good luck to you.
Most of the stuff you've linked to seems to be trying to sell racing-type gear to 15 mph riders, yeah I tend to think that's marketing claptrap.
#117
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,690
Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 672 Post(s)
Liked 417 Times
in
249 Posts
Gosh, we've never discussed this before.
__________________
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
#118
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,095 Times
in
5,053 Posts
Don't think anyone's trying to convince you to do that. I ride several thousands of miles a year and don't do that, but I don't accuse people who say they do it for that reason of being fetishists.
And if you're going to go the "you can't take a joke" route now, remember, the first thing you needed to do for that move was actually be funny.
#119
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 4,128
Bikes: Rossetti Vertigo
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times
in
70 Posts
Don't think anyone's trying to convince you to do that. I ride several thousands of miles a year and don't do that, but I don't accuse people who say they do it for that reason of being fetishists.
And if you're going to go the "you can't take a joke" route now, remember, the first thing you needed to do for that move was actually be funny.
And if you're going to go the "you can't take a joke" route now, remember, the first thing you needed to do for that move was actually be funny.
#120
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,842
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6934 Post(s)
Liked 10,940 Times
in
4,674 Posts
Likes For Koyote:
#123
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,505
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3653 Post(s)
Liked 5,391 Times
in
2,736 Posts
Five pages! Up next from the "new" member- Question about Chain Lube.
#124
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
Leg shaving and hair removal is a feminine trait...There is really no good reason for a man to shave his legs
Likes For wolfchild:
#125
On Your Left
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373
Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times
in
1,187 Posts
Likes For GlennR: