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Conversion of vintage Airborne Lancaster HT as touring bike for GDMBR

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Conversion of vintage Airborne Lancaster HT as touring bike for GDMBR

Old 09-05-21, 02:20 AM
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dmeans2anend
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Conversion of vintage Airborne Lancaster HT as touring bike for GDMBR

Thanks to the body of knowledge from the BF Community, I was able to convert a "used" Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Titanium Cyclocross bike that I purchased 2nd hand into a road touring bike to do the ACA Pacific Coast Bike Route a few years ago.

Now, I am at it again!!! This time I am seeking advice from the BF Community on the conversion of a rare vintage 14" titanium frame Airborne Lancaster front suspension mountain bike ( XC hardtail) to a suitable touring bike for the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route (GDMBR).

Backstory:

For the past couple of years, I have been chasing what felt like a rare unicorn. I knew that I wanted a titanium hardtail to do the GDMBR on my bucket list. However, finding a "USED" titanium bike within my limited budget AND small enough bike frame to suit my size (5'-2" ; 110 lbs) were real hurdles. Undaunted, I kept searching the classifieds.

Well, I finally found my unicorn! Yipppeee!!! I found her on Craigslist for a great deal. Here she is ladies and gentlemen. She's a real beauty IMHO! I love the fact that she is vintage and MINE.












Here are the general specs on the bike that I have chased down:

2002 Airborne Lancaster - Shimano XT & XTR Group

Bike Type: Mountain Bike Front Suspension or Hardtail
Size: 14" frame
Colors: Polished Titanium

Frame & Fork
Frame Construction: TIG-welded
Frame Material: 3AI/2.5 V Titanium
Fork: Rock Shox Pilot Race
Fork Material:
Rear Shock: N/A

Components
Component Group: Shimano Deore XT
Brakeset: Avid Mechanical Disc Brakes; Avid Speed Dial 5 Levers
Shift Levers: Shimano Deore XT 3x9 SL-M750 Shifter Set
Front Derailleur: Shimano XT bottom bracket mount
Back Derailleur: Shimano XT RD-M760
Crankset: Shimano Deore XT 22/32/44 teeth FC-M760/761 (170mm crank) Triple chainring
Rear Cassettes: Shimano XT CS-M760
Chain: Shimano CN-HG93.1/2x3/32
Seatpost: FLYTE (27.2 mm) aluminum
Saddle: Selle Italia
Handlebars: Easton Monkey Lite XC carbon fiber low rise handlebar
Handlebar Stem: No brand 90mm / no rise
Headset: FSA 36 degree cartridge

Wheels
Wheel Size: 26" wheels
Hubs: Shimano XTR HB-M965 32 holes for disc brake
Rims: Mavic X-317 Disc
Front Tire: Hutchinson Tech Airlight Scorpion 26"x2.0" (made in France)
Rear Tire: Hutchinson Tech Airlight Scorpion 26"x2.0" (made in France)
Spoke Brand: Wheelsmith
Spoke Nipples: 32 nipples Silver color (brass? or alloy?)

Total Bike Weight: ~ 23.5 lbs with above specs

Bike Fit: Overall, the bike fit feels fairly comfortable for my height and size without having made any changes to it yet. However, I'm a road cyclist and I have no experience with mountain biking so I don't have much to go on at this point until I actually get out on the trails and do some long rides. I do realize that the bike geometry is more aggressive and suited for XC racing than what I am intending it for.

Overall Condition: The drivetrain seems to be in fairly decent condition after the bike was cleaned up. However, the vintage Shimano Deore XT shifter levers seems a bit sluggish but I'm not sure if that is something typical with mountain bikes. The only thing that I can compare it to is my Shimano Dura Ace shifters on my road bike. The gear ratio on the Airborne Lancaster is excellent with a range of 17.7 to 103 gear inches per Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator.

Here are some changes that I am considering on the retrofit for the bike:

C1) Change the 90 mm stem to something a bit shorter with a rise for better reach and control as my arms feel slightly extended and the handlebar a little low.

C2) Switch out the aluminum black Flyte seatpost with an aluminum silver Thompson Elite seatpost that I already have.

C3) Switch the Selle Italia seat with a female Selle Italia Diva Gel seat that I already have on my road bike.

C4) Replace the Shimano 9 speed chain (CN-HG 93.1) to KMC 9 speed chain (X9.93).
​​
C5) Consider replacing the carbon fiber Easton Monkey Lite XC handlebar with an aluminum Jones H bar with riser. I'm replacing the carbon handlebar because I want to add load to the handlebar to hang a handlebar bag.

Summary of Upgrades per BF Recommendations from the comments below:

C6) Lube shifters (lube or WD-40?)

C7) Change cables on the bike.

C8) Check bottom bracket for titanium corrosion and add Teflon based grease.

C9) Checkout following products for GDMBR: Suspension dropper seatpost (per video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1e3g8uqrJU&t=3s); Shimano PD-T8000 XT pedals (dual); Tubus rear rack; Revelate Design Nano panniers or Moosetreks panniers; Topeak Versa Cage and Versamount and Zefal Gizmo.

C10) For lower gearing: Upgrade 22T chainring to 20T chainring 64bcd on Ebay per how to video (20 Tooth Small Chain Ring) and upgrade 32T cog to 36T per max limits of the RD or go even higher to 42T or 44T with Wolf Tooth linkage.

C11) Evaluate existing performance of Rock Shox Pilot Race fork. Research new front suspension forks (DT Swiss, Fox, Manitou). Choose around 100 mm of travel.

Questions:


Q1) Anyone else familiar with the Airborne Lancaster Titanium HT frame and has experience bike touring with it?

Q2) Based on the above bike specs, would you have any recommendation on changes, upgrades, or concerns with respect to using the bike to bike touring on the GDMBR? I have tried to provide the model numbers for the component parts since some of it is vintage.

Q3) Since the frame size is very small (14"), I suspect there is not enough clearance for using bags for bikepacking. My current plan is to add a handlebar bag in front, and add a rear rack (Old Man Mountain or ?? better suggestion) and use panniers. I already have an Old Man Mountain (OMM) rear rack that I used on my titanium cyclocross bike for road touring. The OMM rack is rather heavy though and it utilize skewer mounting instead of bottom braze-ons. A rear rack with skewer mounting makes changing a flat tire on the rear tire a bit more challenging. Otherwise, the OMM rack is bomb proof. I am open to other options though. The Airborne HT has braze-ons for rear racks. See photos of top and bottom braze-ons for the rear rack below. I am worry that the disc brake may interfere with mounting the rear rack to the bottom braze-ons. I had the same problem with the Motobecane Titanium cyclocross bike and hence, I had to use the skewer mounting instead. Any recommendation on alternative rear rack options for HT bikes with rear disc brakes that can handle very rough trails? Most aluminum rear racks made for bikes with discs seem cheap and too flimsy for the GDMBR (example the Ibera rear rack or the Axiom).





Q4) To provide more even weight distribution between the front and back of the bike if I use only rear panniers, I'm considering adding some sort of mount on the front suspension fork like the Salsa Anything Cage with hose clamps. Or consider a front rack like the Topeak TetraRack M1 that mounts on front suspension forks and is compatible with 26" tires. Does anyone have experience using these on their bikes or even better recommendations?

Q5) The current tire size is 26" x 2.0". Any recommendations on tire sizes for the GDMBR that would be suitable on the Airborne Lancaster HT? Is 2" wide tires adequate with a hardtail for the GDMBR or should I consider even fatter tires if my bike geometry allows?

Q6) Would anyone know the geometry of the 14" Airborne Lancaster or has the 2002 Airborne catalog? I would love to know the geometry.

Q7) What is a good pedal replacement recommendation for the GDMBR? I have the Shimano PD-A530 SPD Dual Platform Pedals and standard SPD pedals that I use for road riding but I suspect these are more for road biking and not suitable for mountain biking.

Q8) Would anyone have the instruction manual for the Rock Shox "Pilot Race" fork? I searched online and found instruction manual for the Rock Shox "Pilot XC & SL" but not the "Pilot Race" since it does not have a lockout on it. It is slightly different.

Q8) Any other considerations that I should think about GDMBR but just don't know any better to ask since I am not a mountain biker?

Last edited by dmeans2anend; 09-05-21 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 09-05-21, 06:34 AM
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Very nice bike...like really nice. You're lucky to have found it at all, let alone in your size.

As a point of reference, I have a Bianchi Super Grizzly hard tail with XT shifters and drive train. It shifts really well. Very light pressure on either shifter and click..you're there. Easily shifts as well as my road bikes..and better is a couple cases. Every time I ride that bike I think.."..dang..this thing really shifts well!" You might try giving your shifters a good lube(don't take them apart!) and put a fresh set of cables on the bike.
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Old 09-05-21, 07:07 AM
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My thoughts, none of which answer your questions:

You are not sure about the material of the nipples. My first thought is find out if they are brass or not, if not, replace with brass.

I do not have much experience with a suspension fork that is almost 20 years old. Being ignorant, I would be curious if the fork needs rebuilding by someone that knows how to do it right, are the O rings and seals still good, is the oil still good, etc.

Seatpost, for the intended use, would you prefer a suspension seatpost like the Thudbuster or one of the others with similar design?

Seven years ago I rode White Rim with several friends, all of which had full suspension bikes, those that did not own mountain bikes rented them. I instead used my heavy duty touring bike, but I fitted a Rock Shox suspension fork to it, thus it was basically a hard tail with drop bars. I used a cheap telescopic suspension seatpost, but I wished I had a better suspension seatpost.

If you get a suspension seatpost, given your height I assume you are quite light in weight, thus would probably want a soft instead of stiff cushioning.

I think you made a good call to stick with the existing drive train.

I have heard some bad stories about titanium corrosion on bottom bracket threads, you might want to find out if the bottom bracket is seized into the frame or not. If not, use some appropriate anti-seize material to make sure that does not happen. I did not research this in any great degree for my titanium bike, I have some teflon based grease so that is what I used on those threads on my titanium bike.

Titanium is very soft, be very careful that you do not cross thread any of bolts for rack or water bottle cages. I use removable thread locker on all rack bolts.

That bike looks very clean and looks like it has had almost no miles, congratulations on a great find. If those are the original tires, it looks like that bike might only have a few hundred miles on it.

Last edited by Tourist in MSN; 09-05-21 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 09-05-21, 07:49 AM
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The above points are all good. Your changes all seem good but be careful of the chain, be prepared to replace the rear cassette and possibly a chainring depending on the level of wear, this could also be a good excuse for changing the gearing at the same time to a wider range perhaps though you will be limited by the older tech.
I would not use any rack that requires attachment to the QR, that can be a muddy course and a flat in the wrong spot could get messy with a rack that attaches there.
From what I've read and watched on some of the movies/videos about the ride, my wife and I have been training for it, is that 2.2 is often seen as the best but people have ridden it on cross bikes so if what you can fit is 2.0 it will work. Our bikes handle 2.1 so good enough.
Personally I really like the t8000 xt pedals, for my size 13 feet the platform is an ok size though not ideal, probably a generous size for you, so plenty of surface for a comfortable, stable ride if your cleats get clogged since the other side is spd.
I've run the rack cages, I didn't have too much trouble with them but my wife has complained about the effect on handling and they do have an effect though not as bad as panniers, obviously just keep the weight balanced.
You've done one great tour so you've got the basics, just really make sure the seat is comfortable, our seats have been used for other tours that included rail trail and towpaths but after 160 miles in 3 days over rough Catskill terrain meant to mimic the GD route mine wasn't quite as comfortable. There are also shorter rides of similar style you might want to look for locally that can be done in 5-6 days or longer depending on fitness. We plan to sign up for one in the Adirondacks next year that is 450 miles, fastest someone did it is just over 3 days I believe, we're going to see how far we get in 5 days, hope to finish, but it will test out our strength and equipment and give an idea of changes needed.
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Old 09-05-21, 08:46 AM
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Hi Fishboat:

Thank you for feedback on HT shifters. I never knew you needed to lube shifters. Good to know. I'll have to watch a Youtube video on how to do it. I've added to my list of To Dos are C6) lube shifters and C7) change cables!
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Old 09-05-21, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dmeans2anend
Hi Fishboat:

Thank you for feedback on HT shifters. I never knew you needed to lube shifters. Good to know. I'll have to watch a Youtube video on how to do it. I've added to my list of To Dos are C6) lube shifters and C7) change cables!
You usually don’t have to but some can get sticky over time. Spray some WD-40 into the shifter and run it through the gears. The WD-40 has mineral oil in it as well as solvent. The oil is usually enough to get the shifter going again.
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Old 09-05-21, 09:52 AM
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Hi Again Tourist in MSN! (Really appreciate all your comments and expansive expertise on bikes!)
Thank you for the excellent video on suspension seatpost. It contained a lot of valuable info. I will probably have to watch it again several times to absorb all the tech. details. I really like the idea since the weight to comfort ratio is low compared to FS bikes and I definitely want to protect my back! Is there a particular brand of dropper suspension seatpost that you would recommend for GDMBR for my weight of 110 lbs? I will consider this option. I've added C8) check bottom bracket to my list. Hopefully, it's not too hard to do but I'll have to learn how to do it from Youtube and get the appropriate tools for it. Yes, I use either a blue Loctite threadlocker or a locking nut for mounting my rack in my bag of tricks. I also typically replace the fasteners that come std with the racks with SS fasteners. I've read somewhere that contact of Ti-SS does not cause significant galvanic corrosion which is used in spinal implants.


Hi Ross Ruth:
Thank you for your comments. The present gearing on the bike is typical of what you would find on a touring bike with a range of 17 to 103 gear inches so I'll probably stick with it. I doubt I can get much lower than 17 gear inches without sacrificing weight. I thought about going with a 1 X 11-44 gearing configuration to simplify the drivetrain and lighten the weight but I probably won't do it because I want to have as many options on the gearing since I don't know what to expect on the GDMBR conditions. I'll check out the Shimano Deore XT PD-T8000 XT as suggested but boy, are they expensive ($150 on Amazon)! I'm thinking about switching to a Brook saddle instead of the Selle Italia Diva that I've ridden with for years on my road rides but I just haven't pulled the trigger on it yet as the weight of the Brook saddle is 2.3 lbs vs 10.3 ounces on my SI Diva.

Hi Cyccommute:
Isn't WD-40 a degreaser? I was told that it's not a good idea to use it on bikes. Is the intent with the shifter to simply get moving parts going again so it's not an actual 'lube' requirement where a degreaser would interfere with it?

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Old 09-05-21, 11:07 AM
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I have no specific suggestions for a suspension seatpost, but I thought that the youtube video makes a pretty strong case for it if on rough terrain. And my four day trip on White Rim, there were a few times that I had to ride much slower than the others that had good suspension.

***

Saddles, I find that I need a narrower saddle that is more rounded in the back when using the drops with my drop bars than if I am using a flat bar bike where I do not lean as far forward. Years ago I bought a Brooks B17 which appears to be a favorite for touring, but it was too wide and the back too flat for when I use the drops on drop bars. But if I had a flat bar bike, I would probably like it. I have it on a hybrid bike on my indoor trainer for watching tv in winter.

My point is that for this bike, you should look at saddles as if you were starting from scratch, not as someone that already has a lot of saddle experience because you likely will have a very different posture on the bike.

And if you get a leather saddle, have it broken in and apply some Proofide (both top and bottom) before you do your big ride. But I suggest you try to break it in before applying any Proofide and make sure you do not get it wet until you have applied Proofide. Although Proofide is a good water repellant, you do not want to get the saddle wet in rain, so buy a waterproof cover for it, I carry a cover on the bike with my spare tube at all times.

***

WD-40, although I would use something different, I will defer to the chemist on that.
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Old 09-05-21, 11:13 AM
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The WD in WD 40 is for "water displacement". I'd guess, in addition to mineral oil that is left behind, the solvent/carrier portion of WD40 is water-miscible components(small alcohols?) mixed with some higher carbon, volatile solvents. As such, it will degrease/dissolve greases..which is sort of the point as the lube that Shimano uses in their shifters has a history of hardening up over time. This causes shifters to get sticky or sluggish. Do a youtube search on cleaning/restoring sti shifters..you'll get plenty of hits. The mineral oil in the formula is left behind after the lighter components evaporate..displacing any water and offering some lubrication.

The nice thing about WD40 is that it works, is mostly benign chemically(from a safety standpoint and it won't harm painted finishes or plastics/rubber), and most of it evaporates. I suppose you could use mineral spirits and then follow with a light machine oil(spray).

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Old 09-05-21, 11:21 AM
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Fishboat:

Thank you for the technical clarification on WD-40. I love WD-40 and I use to spray it on EVERYTHING! It is only recently that I learned that it is a degreaser and not always applicable for all situations (for example: garage door rollers and squeaky hinges.. I use WD-40 brand of White Lithium Grease now for the garage door application recently and Boy, was it effective at making the garage door run much more smoothly and quiet .).

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Old 09-05-21, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by dmeans2anend
Size: 14" frame
For your height, that is probably a good size. It could be an inch smaller but at least it isn’t a 15”. Those are rare in aluminum and particularly rare in titanium.

Spoke Nipples: 32 nipples Silver color (brass? or alloy?)
The color looks aluminum. It’s not shiny silver like plated brass. I wouldn’t worry about them and certainly not replace them as long as they don’t break. If the spoke nipples start to break, look into a rebuild but not until you have a problem.


Bike Fit: Overall, the bike fit feels fairly comfortable for my height and size without having made any changes to it yet. However, I'm a road cyclist and I have no experience with mountain biking so I don't have much to go on at this point until I actually get out on the trails and do some long rides. I do realize that the bike geometry is more aggressive and suited for XC racing than what I am intending it for.
Generally you want about 3” (4” is better) smaller than you would ride on a road bike. For your height, you likely ride a 44cm (17”) or 47 (18”) road. A 14” frame is in the range of what you probably should be riding. Something to consider if you need a little more room is to have the shock travel limited. You may be able to have it rebuilt by Risse. I had a fork travel reduced to 60mm for my small wife.

The gear ratio on the Airborne Lancaster is excellent with a range of 17.7 to 103 gear inches per Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator.
Not bad but could be a little better. You can fit a 20 tooth inner on the bike with some surgery. Here’s post with a video link on how to do it. It’s not too difficult and require nothing more than a file. You can also use 36 tooth cog on the cassette. It may work with your current derailer (try it first) but if it doesn’t a Wolf Tooth Road Link will extend the capacity of the rear derailer.

Here are some changes that I am considering on the retrofit for the bike:

C4) Replace the Shimano 9 speed chain (CN-HG 93.1) to KMC 9 speed chain (X9.93).
​​
C5) Consider replacing the carbon fiber Easton Monkey Lite XC handlebar with an aluminum Jones H bar with riser. I'm replacing the carbon handlebar because I want to add load to the handlebar to hang a handlebar bag.
There’s no need to replace the Shimano chain if it isn’t worn. There’s not difference between the two. Just leave it until it needs replacing.

The handlebars aren’t really anything to worry about. They are designed for more weight than you carry (probably). A bikepacking handlebar load is usually a tent and sleeping bag which aren’t that heavy. I doubt that it will have any issues.

Questions:

Q2) Based on the above bike specs, would you have any recommendation on changes, upgrades, or concerns with respect to using the bike to bike touring on the GDMBR? I have tried to provide the model numbers for the component parts since some of it is vintage.
Nope. Nothing needs to be changed. Gearing could be tweaked a little but that’s not a necessity. As it sits, the bike is an excellent find and very rideable.

Q3) Since the frame size is very small (14"), I suspect there is not enough clearance for using bags for bikepacking. My current plan is to add a handlebar bag in front, and add a rear rack (Old Man Mountain or ?? better suggestion) and use panniers. I already have an Old Man Mountain (OMM) rear rack that I used on my titanium cyclocross bike for road touring. The OMM rack is rather heavy though and it utilize skewer mounting instead of bottom braze-ons. A rear rack with skewer mounting makes changing a flat tire on the rear tire a bit more challenging. Otherwise, the OMM rack is bomb proof. I am open to other options though. The Airborne HT has braze-ons for rear racks. See photos of top and bottom braze-ons for the rear rack below. I am worry that the disc brake may interfere with mounting the rear rack to the bottom braze-ons. I had the same problem with the Motobecane Titanium cyclocross bike and hence, I had to use the skewer mounting instead. Any recommendation on alternative rear rack options for HT bikes with rear disc brakes that can handle very rough trails? Most aluminum rear racks made for bikes with discs seem cheap and too flimsy for the GDMBR (example the Ibera rear rack or the Axiom).
You are correct that a seat pack is probably out of the question. You’ll almost have to use a rack. That said, the Old Man Mountain is a poor choice. I’ve had one in the past and found it to have just the problems you are anticipating. A regular rack will probably fit without issues. Try a cheap on first to see if it fits (borrow one if possible.) If fitting the rack has issues, you may just need to move the legs out a little with a disc adapter. Axiom and Jandd make some clever ones.

As to brand, it’s hard to go wrong with Tubus. Cost wise they are as expensive (or even a little cheaper) as the Old Man Mountain. They are steel (or titanium) but are as rugged as you can get.

For rear bags, I’d suggest either Revelate Design Nano panniers (expensive but rugged and well made) or Moosetreks panniers (not as durable but cheap). Both are small (about 15 L total) which is good. You can mount a trunk bag if you need more room. I’d suggest avoiding really large panniers because that just encourages more stuff to carry.

Q4) To provide more even weight distribution between the front and back of the bike if I use only rear panniers, I'm considering adding some sort of mount on the front suspension fork like the Salsa Anything Cage with hose clamps. Or consider a front rack like the Topeak TetraRack M1 that mounts on front suspension forks and is compatible with 26" tires. Does anyone have experience using these on their bikes or even better recommendations?
Topeak Versa Cage and Versamount are good choices and the Versamount is far better than hose clamps. I have had an issue with the Versamount’s plastic worm screw coming loose but it’s still better than a hose clamp. Zefal Gizmo is another good choice that uses zipties. I’d avoid hose clamps because they are easy to overtighten on the fork leg.

Q5) The current tire size is 26" x 2.0". Any recommendations on tire sizes for the GDMBR that would be suitable on the Airborne Lancaster HT? Is 2" wide tires adequate with a hardtail for the GDMBR or should I consider even fatter tires if my bike geometry allows?
I doubt you’ll be able to go much wider. Looking at the frame and given the era, it doesn’t appear to have much space for wider than about 2.2”. The other issue with really wide tires is that they add weight.


Q7) What is a good pedal replacement recommendation for the GDMBR? I have the Shimano PD-A530 SPD Dual Platform Pedals and standard SPD pedals that I use for road riding but I suspect these are more for road biking and not suitable for mountain biking.
Just about any Shimano (or any other dual sided Shimano compatible) pedal will work. The M520 is a good choice. About $50 for new ones and $25 or less on Fleabay. Used ones are fine since the M520 is an incredible rugged pedal.



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Old 09-05-21, 12:00 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by fishboat
The WD in WD 40 is for "water displacement". I'd guess, in addition to mineral oil that is left behind, the solvent/carrier portion of WD40 is water-miscible components(small alcohols?) mixed with some higher carbon, volatile solvents. As such, it will degrease/dissolve greases..which is sort of the point as the lube that Shimano uses in their shifters has a history of hardening up over time. This causes shifters to get sticky or sluggish. Do a youtube search on cleaning/restoring sti shifters..you'll get plenty of hits. The mineral oil in the formula is left behind after the lighter components evaporate..displacing any water and offering some lubrication.

The nice thing about WD40 is that it works, is mostly benign chemically(from a safety standpoint and it won't harm painted finishes or plastics/rubber), and most of it evaporates. I suppose you could use mineral spirits and then follow with a light machine oil(spray).
No, WD-40 doesn’t contain alcohols. It is mineral oil and mineral spirits and is completely water insoluble. The oil that is left behind forms a film over the metal which keeps water from sticking all that well. But if the part is wet, it’s unlikely the WD40 will “displace” it. Other solvent sprays like brake cleaner, carburetor cleaner, or bicycle specific sprays like Finish Line Speed Degreaser are just mineral spirits and will only strip out the old oil and grease without replacing it.


Originally Posted by dmeans2anend

Hi Cyccommute:
Isn't WD-40 a degreaser? I was told that it's not a good idea to use it on bikes.
It’s both a degreaser and a regreaser. There’s lot of mythology about WD-40 and bicycles out there and most of it is wrong. No, WD-40 spray is not a good choice as a chain lubricant but that is mostly due to overspray. The oil in WD-40 isn’t that much different from the oil you find in most oil based lubricants. It’s not going to harm anything but it’s going to be messy…just like all oil based lubricants.

Is the intent with the shifter to simply get moving parts going again so it's not an actual 'lube' requirement where a degreaser would interfere with it?
I haven’t taken a Shimano shifter apart (most people haven’t) but I have restored many shifters to working condition with WD-40. As noted above, something changes inside…probably due to the grease…which causes the shifter to not work. Simply spraying in a degreaser removes the grease but doesn’t leave anything to help lubricate the internals. Many people will try to drip oil in to the shifter hoping that it will get to where it is needed. WD-40 just skips that second step. It won’t harm anything.
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Old 09-05-21, 01:01 PM
  #13  
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Cyccommute:

Thank you for all the great suggestions and comments.

I have two road bike that I ride that I'm comfortable on with long rides ( 50 miles/daily up to 150 miles/day):

A) 48 cm Specialized Ruby Pro carbon fiber frame road bike.
B) 49 cm Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Titanium Frame cyclocross bike for road touring,

I think I'm able to get away with a slightly larger frame than what you've suggested because:
i) I'm very flexible.
ii) I've shortened the stem on both of my road bikes for better reach and I feel I can get more power from my legs being extended out.

I think it may be cheaper for me to buy a new or slightly used fork than to rebuild the existing vintage fork Rock Shox Pilot Race, especially since it doesn't seem to have a lockout knob for when I'm on asphalt. What is the recommended mm of travel on a front suspension fork for someone like me (110 lbs) for something like the GDMBR? I don't have experience with suspension forks and have just recently gotten on the steep learning curve about it.

I really appreciate the video regarding the '20 Tooth Small Chain Ring'. Thank you! Definitely something that I will look into further added to my list! I am familiar with upgrading the rear cassette to 11-42 cogs using the Wolf Tooth. It's what I did on the Motobecane Cyclocross bike for the ACA Pacific Coast Route. I had a range of around 20 in to 100 in and it worked beautifully without any issues or skipping on shifting. I was able to do all the climbs without any walking or attending a sufferfest party. I was under the notion that touring bikes with a range of gear inches around 19 in to 100+ in is good. I forget if this range is just for Road Touring though? I understand lower gearing is helpful to get more traction and consistent power on pedal strokes for climbing especially on loose gravel but I just don't have a feel for the difference between say 13 gear inch vs 14 gear inches to justify whether the modifications and added cost would offer that much more advantage? Is there a formula to figure out what advantage per gear inch is reduced? What range in gear inches is recommended for the GDMBR or is typically required for mountain bike touring. I just don't have any experience on a mountain bike.

I currently own the Shimano M520 SPD pedals on my road bike and love them but I was thinking that it might not be ideal for the GDMBR since on really steep or difficult sections, I may want to just use flat pedals for greater safety in handling. I'm just speculating here..... I road the PC route with the M520 pedals and they worked great but it was again on solid asphalt where I didn't stop at all while climbing and not loose gravelly terrain like the GDMBR that may require greater starts and stops where having flat pedals would come in handy(?).

Thank you for all the gear recommendations! I will do some research on it.

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Old 09-05-21, 04:31 PM
  #14  
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Fishboat & Cyccommute:

Thank you on your comments on shifter flush. You both just saved me from replacing the shifters! I just watched a great video by Parktool on it. They suggest using some sort of aerosol 'brake cleaner' as it is a powerful degreaser and can really brake down the gummed up peanut butter grease. I conveniently have the brake cleaner from a recent overhaul of a gas lawn mower carburetor. ;0) Then you should follow it up with foamy aerosol TriFlow lube. The key is using an aerosol lube with 'foaming' properties that will really get into all the nooks and crannies inside the shifter casing.


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Old 09-05-21, 05:03 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by dmeans2anend
Cyccommute:

Thank you for all the great suggestions and comments.

I have two road bike that I ride that I'm comfortable on with long rides ( 50 miles/daily up to 150 miles/day):

A) 48 cm Specialized Ruby Pro carbon fiber frame road bike.
B) 49 cm Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Titanium Frame cyclocross bike for road touring,

I think I'm able to get away with a slightly larger frame than what you've suggested because:
i) I'm very flexible.
ii) I've shortened the stem on both of my road bikes for better reach and I feel I can get more power from my legs being extended out.
Just to be clear, bicycle fit for small people is a bit of a sore point for me. My wife has suffered from bikes that are too large for her for 40 years (more if you include the Sears 10 speed she rode as a kid). It’s been a long hard road to get her a bike that fits and doesn’t hurt. It took a long time to convince her that the bike she was riding was too large to begin with (probably because of that damned Sears 10 speed). I think a lot of women are in the same boat.

I think it may be cheaper for me to buy a new or slightly used fork than to rebuild the existing vintage fork Rock Shox Pilot Race, especially since it doesn't seem to have a lockout knob for when I'm on asphalt. What is the recommended mm of travel on a front suspension fork for someone like me (110 lbs) for something like the GDMBR? I don't have experience with suspension forks and have just recently gotten on the steep learning curve about it.
That’s your call. Rebuilds from Risse are about $200. They do a really good job. If you are going to replace the fork…it’s trivial to do so…look at Fox and Manitou as well. I’m not a fan of RockShox because their lockout isn’t very good for my weight and size. It essentially doesn’t…lockout, that is. Fox and Manitou are more positive with the Fox being slightly more solid when locked than the Manitou but only slightly. Fox is a bit higher quality as well. I have several forks from the era of your RockShox that are still going strong with little to no maintenance on them.

For travel, I probably wouldn’t go more than 100mm and, for your height, an 80mm might be better. A shorter fork will allow for more standover but not as much travel. That might not be much of a problem because I doubt that you would really compress a 100 mm fork that much at your weight even with minimal air. On the other hand, an 80mm fork will cause the front to be steeper so the steering is also quicker. That’s not as much of an advantage as you think because a loaded bike and quick handling don’t go together all that well.

I really appreciate the video regarding the '20 Tooth Small Chain Ring'. Thank you! Definitely something that I will look into further added to my list! I am familiar with upgrading the rear cassette to 11-42 cogs using the Wolf Tooth. It's what I did on the Motobecane Cyclocross bike for the ACA Pacific Coast Route. I had a range of around 20 in to 100 in and it worked beautifully without any issues or skipping on shifting. I was able to do all the climbs without any walking or attending a sufferfest party. I was under the notion that touring bikes with a range of gear inches around 19 in to 100+ in is good. I forget if this range is just for Road Touring though? I understand lower gearing is helpful to get more traction and consistent power on pedal strokes for climbing especially on loose gravel but I just don't have a feel for the difference between say 13 gear inch vs 14 gear inches to justify whether the modifications and added cost would offer that much more advantage? Is there a formula to figure out what advantage per gear inch is reduced? What range in gear inches is recommended for the GDMBR or is typically required for mountain bike touring. I just don't have any experience on a mountain bike.
Most bikes have the range of gearing because of the lack of imagination on the part of component engineers. I have 15” gears on both my road touring bike and off-road bikepacking bike. I’ve never felt that the bike needed higher gears. Most of my bikes have had similar gearing since the mid80s. After 40 years of riding, I still have OEM knees so I must be doing something right

I currently own the Shimano M520 SPD pedals on my road bike and love them but I was thinking that it might not be ideal for the GDMBR since on really steep or difficult sections, I may want to just use flat pedals for greater safety in handling. I'm just speculating here..... I road the PC route with the M520 pedals and they worked great but it was again on solid asphalt where I didn't stop at all while climbing and not loose gravelly terrain like the GDMBR that may require greater starts and stops where having flat pedals would come in handy(?).

Thank you for all the gear recommendations! I will do some research on it.
I’ve been riding double sided mountain bike pedals on- and off-road (as well as winter time) since the early 90s. I’ve had my share of crashes but very few of them have been due to the pedal failing to disengage. In fact, my feet are often out of the pedals before I even think about it. I’d suggest getting a little bit of mountain biking under your belt before you do the Great Divide but the Great Divide route isn’t all that rough. Just set the pedal tension low.
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Old 09-05-21, 05:29 PM
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Cyccommute:

I totally agree with your comment about difficulty in finding bikes for small adults especially women. I lived it! I truly believe there is rampant DISCRIMINATION in the cycling industry against small short people especially short women !!! I don't know why that is? If you're 5'-3" and shorter, your choices of bikes are SO LIMITED to women specific bikes AND it typically comes with entry level components instead of all the bling that you get with larger bikes. The other option is going full custom made bike which is insanely expensive. For all the bike industry insiders on this forum, PLEASE MAKE BIKES FOR SHORT PEOPLE. We also have money to spend too and want value for it. Because of the limited options, I soon had to educate myself all about bike fit to learn as much as I could in order to get the sizing right on my road bike and eliminate the pain and injuries that I experienced with wrist numbness, back and neck pains. Now, I have it dialed in just perfectly and can do 40 mile training rides regularly without any issues. It forced me to take ownership of my bike. I have to say that it was fun to learn and it makes me a more committed rider because I understand the mechanics and theories behind why you do certain things to get bike just right for each different application of riding.

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Old 09-05-21, 07:55 PM
  #17  
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Check out other sources than Amazon for bike parts if you aren't in a rush. I paid 100 for the pedals and have found them affordably elsewhere. If Shimano didn't pull their nonsense on banning european sellers from shipping to the US they sell for 60 in the EU.
If you need a new fork, I haven't looked into the reviews, but DT Swiss makes decent stuff and randombikeparts has new take off suspension forks for 26" wheeled bikes, might be worth looking into, just make sure you find a 10% off code to make it better.
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Old 09-05-21, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dmeans2anend
Cyccommute:

I totally agree with your comment about difficulty in finding bikes for small adults especially women. I lived it! I truly believe there is rampant DISCRIMINATION in the cycling industry against small short people especially short women !!! I don't know why that is?
It’s a design issue. Georgena Terry has a series of videos on bike design for small people. Her videos explain the problems very clearly. My wife has had two Symmetrys. One was the 520mm front/622mm rear. The one she has now has the same sized wheels in 650C (571mm) size. The 650C size wheels makes for a smaller frame all the way around. She has found it very comfortable. The former was the first bike she has ever owned that actually fit. Terry’s ideas really work even if they are unconventional.
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Old 09-05-21, 08:11 PM
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Russ Roth:

Thank you for the info on Randombikeparts. It's new one and I haven't heard of it. I'm not in a rush. I've put out alerts in Ebay and CL for the pedals.

I totally agree that European 'sports equipment' are SO MUCH lower than prices in the US. Have you heard of Decathlon? Not so much in bike stuff, but for general camping and hiking gear, it's nearly 30% cheaper than REI and they often have sales.
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Old 09-05-21, 08:27 PM
  #20  
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For touring I use either the A530 or the M324 pedals. Those models have been around for over a decade, but I think the A530 is now out of production, replaced by something else.

Shimano now makes several other models that are platform on one side, SPD on the other. Several years ago I wrote up a comparison of the A530 and M324, but at that time those were the primary ones used for touring, now there are many more pedals to choose from. This link lists the characteristics I thought were important to compare.
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...l#post18306425

After I wrote that, I finally got around to buying a Shimano TL PD40 too, it is a cheap plastic tool that some pedals like the A530 use to add grease to the pedal bearings. But some pedals like the M324 do not use that tool. If you are curious, do a search on youtube for that tool part number, there are some good videos that tell you how to add grease to a pedal. I got rid of some clicking in some A530 pedals by simply adding grease using that tool. From now on I will only buy pedals that use that tool if I buy Shimano.

On pavement, I prefer cleats. But, when on really difficult terrain or a steep uphill on gravel, I want to use a platform side of the pedal. If you have a gear of say 15 gear inches, it is not that hard to spin your rear wheel on loose gravel. And if you are climbing up a 10 percent grade at 3 mph and suddenly spin your rear wheel, you might come to a halt so fast it is hard to uncleat in time to get your feet on the ground, that is why I prefer platform for steep uphills. One 14 hour day in Iceland I lost count of how many hills I spun the rear tire on loose gravel and had to push the bike up the rest of the hill. And there are those evening rides to the restaurant or pub when normal shoes might feel better on the feet.

***

On suspension forks, I suggested a rebuild in a previous post. But if a rebuild is $200, maybe ride it for a while and see how it works first. If it works well, keep using it. If that bike is as low a mileage bike as it looks, maybe that fork has a lot of life left in it as is.

If you replace the fork, the frame was likely designed for a suspension fork that has 100mm of travel, so I would stick with that length, a different length of suspension could alter the geometry enough to be noticeable.

And, you might not get much more speed or distance if you locked out the fork, so maybe that feature is not that important.

I only have one suspension fork, that is coil spring, not air. So, I am somewhat ignorant on such forks.
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Old 09-05-21, 09:04 PM
  #21  
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Cyccommute:

Wow, super videos and so informative. I just watched all 4 segments of Georgena Terry's videos that you referenced and it's the first time that I now understand the bike design constraints. Regarding shorter crank arms in 160 mm, it is nearly impossible to find them without having to pay a fortune for it. I have tried in the past with no success.

One thing that I've done to get slightly better reach is to flip the seatpost with a slight rise the other way around so that my saddle can be shifted closer to the handlebar. Probably not the smartest or safest thing to do but my buddy who is a professional bike mechanic actually suggested it to me. He stated that I was physically light enough so it is not too risky but wouldn't recommend this approach for everyone. It gave me the few mm that I needed to be dialed in. I've ridden this way on my carbon road bike for 7 years and it's been fine and comfortable.

Tourist in MNS:

I actually have both Shimano pedals already. Didn't know I was supposed to grease it! I'll watch Youtube on How to Do it and buy the plastic tool.
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Old 09-06-21, 05:23 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by dmeans2anend
...
Tourist in MNS:

I actually have both Shimano pedals already. Didn't know I was supposed to grease it! I'll watch Youtube on How to Do it and buy the plastic tool.
I had a A530 develop a clicking sound, I had a spare pair so I switched that one pedal with the spare. A year later the other side developed a click, so now I had a pair of clicking pedals.

I was sure that the bearings had loosened up so I bought the tool with the plan to adjust the bearings. And by now I had gotten confused on which pedals clicked and which did not, so I had four pedals to work on. Youtube was a great help because it is not intuitive on which pedal is clockwise and which counter clockwise for the tool. In my case, I found that all of my pedals had good tight bearings, did not need to adjust any bearings, so I just added a copious amount of grease and reassembled, with the hopes that it would miraculously fix the clicks. Clicks were gone.

Some mechanics say that when your pedal spins freely, you should add grease. But I prefer to wait for a reason to add grease. If a pedal spins freely, the rear part of the pedal that hangs down is usually the cleat side of the pedal. So if you want to cleat in, you move your foot forward when you put your foot on the pedal. If you want to use the platform side, move your foot to the rear when your foot contacts the pedal. But a pedal that is freshly greased that does not spin freely, that foot movement theory does not work so well when you put your foot on the pedal.

I have managed to get the plastic plug removed from a M324 pedal to add grease. And I have decided that it was enough of a hassle that when those pedals are shot, instead of trying to fix them, they get discarded or donated to a bike charity.
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Old 09-11-21, 05:56 PM
  #23  
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my wifes mtb, well a Surly Troll, is a XS, she's about 5' , and 26in wheels have the advantage on small frames for not having toe strike on the front wheel. Even for me at over 5'10", I dont have toe strike on my med. Troll, even with larger tires, and its nice not to have it.

A good friend did the divide ride with rear panniers and 2.5 inch tires. He said they were a good mix for trail and pavement, and helped with a non suspension bike.
Your front fork may be working perfectly well if the bike wasnt used that much.

re your gearing, my Troll has basically teh same gearing, and I find that it works great, and I've considered doing the Divide and wouldnt change a thing gearing wise. 44/32/22 and 11-34
As Cycco mentioned, if you havent mountain biked at all, do make the effort to ride trails, just so you develop the basic skills of being on gravel and whatnot. My friend isnt much of a mountain biker, but he did fine on his divide trip.

as also mentioned, a rear rack and smaller panniers, plus some possible frame bags and a handlebar roll type thing should handle what you'd carry, although you may have to take into account money wise a small/light tent etc for weight and space constraints.
I've toured a lot, but also be aware of the aspect of the divide ride of some areas requiring carryng more water etc, so we get back to volume availability of your packing system.
There's also the whole camping out in the wild thing, not to mention the possible temperatures range and inclement weather--and how basic you can go comfort wise / space / weight thing. I figure this trip can easily be a lot tougher than some of the long trips that I have done in other countries, and being out on your own will mean that you'll want to comfortable with all the various aspects of stuff.

Oh, re reach to bars, I personally wouldnt bring the seat forward, but you can easily look into various alt bars that are swept back and are physically closer to the seat. There are numerous of them on the market, I only have experience riding Jones bars, but they are a neat layout and give a nice laid back riding position that works well (but I havent toured on them yet, and anyway, one bar can be great for one person and not another).

all the best looking at the tons of divide ride vids etc that show what people bring and their description of the ride itself, and get out riding on trails and everything in between as much as possible to be more comfortable in this sort of environment (if you aren't already).
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Old 09-13-21, 06:24 AM
  #24  
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A few thoughts
re disc brakes and qr wheels. As an owner of such a bike, you're really going to need to become familiar with your avid bb5 or bb7 brakes. I have bb7s and if unfamiliar with them, you're going to have to spend time learning even the basics, such as proper wheel insertion for not rubbing the rotor. Even setup properly with well positioned calipers, my experience shows that one has to eyeball the rotor and make a tiny nudge so when t you tighten the qr, there isn't contact.
personally being able to deal with this, the unlikely chance of having to straighten a bent rotor, changing out pads etc is pretty essential when in remote areas.
All this was a learning curve for me, 30 years touring but first time with discs about years ago. It was sometimes frustrating, but necessary to go through this and become competent.

on the plus side, my bb7s work great and work fine for my loaded touring. Pad life has been great too but that is entirely dependent on your braking habits and conditions.

Re tubes vs tubeless. Everything I've read about the divide route shows that the southern section would be ruthless with tubes due to thorns.
I have no experience with tubeless but am very aware that there is also a big learning curve of how to deal with certain issues that can come up, so again, a lot of pre trip familiarizing and being realistic of how to deal with potential issues when out on your own and problems could be serious.
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Old 09-13-21, 09:29 AM
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cyccommute 
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Originally Posted by djb
A few thoughts
re disc brakes and qr wheels. As an owner of such a bike, you're really going to need to become familiar with your avid bb5 or bb7 brakes. I have bb7s and if unfamiliar with them, you're going to have to spend time learning even the basics, such as proper wheel insertion for not rubbing the rotor. Even setup properly with well positioned calipers, my experience shows that one has to eyeball the rotor and make a tiny nudge so when t you tighten the qr, there isn't contact.

personally being able to deal with this, the unlikely chance of having to straighten a bent rotor, changing out pads etc is pretty essential when in remote areas.
All this was a learning curve for me, 30 years touring but first time with discs about years ago. It was sometimes frustrating, but necessary to go through this and become competent.
When installing quick release wheels with disc brakes, it’s best to set the wheel on the ground and set the fork on the axle ends. This ensures that the fork tips are properly seated on the axles. This is also the best way to install the wheel on any brake system with quick release.

on the plus side, my bb7s work great and work fine for my loaded touring. Pad life has been great too but that is entirely dependent on your braking habits and conditions.
BB7 are fine brakes. As to pad life, I have yet to adjust a disc brake pad for wear, even through I’ve been using mechanical discs since around 2005. Some of that is my constant changing of calipers due to upgradeitis, but a lot of it is how I use my brakes. I don’t change pads on rim brakes all that often either.

Re tubes vs tubeless. Everything I've read about the divide route shows that the southern section would be ruthless with tubes due to thorns.
I have no experience with tubeless but am very aware that there is also a big learning curve of how to deal with certain issues that can come up, so again, a lot of pre trip familiarizing and being realistic of how to deal with potential issues when out on your own and problems could be serious.
Tubeless on bicycles is one of those items that has a lot of misconceptions associated with them. Tubeless tires aren’t any more or less prone to flats than regular tires (or, more correctly, tubes). Mount a tubeless tire dry on a bike and go for a ride, and you’ll experience as many flats as tubed tires with the added joy of harder flat changes and repairs. The sealant is what makes tubeless tires seeming impervious to flats. You can put sealant in tubes as well and enjoy nearly the same imperviousness.

It’s probably not something to worry about until Cuba, NM as most of the route is in the mountains where goat heads don’t grow (too cold).

On the other hand, if your bike is tubeless ready, there probably isn’t a downside to running tubeless on this route. I don’t personally run tubeless because of the care and feeding necessary for tubeless…regular refreshing of sealant, the messing mounting procedure, the need of a compressor, the extra weight, the need to repeat all that for the 11 bicycles in my garage, etc…but when using a single bike over a long period of time, those are smaller problems.
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