PistolPeteMMA

I want to my LBS yesterday to look at some bikes. I was originally thinking of getting an Allez for my first road bike but the woman there mentioned the Secteur might be a better fit for me. I train in MMA and am looking at buying a bike to replace some running. I'm looking for the bike to help build some leg strength and cardio endurance. I doubt I will ever do any racing with it. She said because of what I would be using it for the Secteur makes more sense because it is a bit more comfortable and the riding position is more upright making it less of an aggressive bike and prob. a better fit for me.

My brother has an Allez and I would prob. be riding with him from time to time though and I don't want to be struggling to keep up with him. I'm a total Newb so I want to make the right choice. What are your thoughs or experiences with these 2 bikes? I'm also considering a Giant Defy 3.

Thanks,
Pete

umd

The Defy is probably more similar to the Secteur than the Allez. They are both relaxed geometry frames. they make you a little more upright by default but for the most part either can be adjusted into similar positions. There are some other differences that affect the handling that you probably won't notice unless you are pushing the bike to the limits in corners, doing fast technical descents or racing. Either way the bike is not going to hold you back.

darb85

^this

Blackdays

Reading comprehension fail.

68venable

I ride an allez and am totally comfortable with it. I dont feel like I would ever need to be more upright. As for you decision, it just depends on whats comfortable and what you want to do. Ride his and see if its comfortable.

umd

Part of the difference between agressive race geometry and relaxed comfort geometry is how "stable" the bike is. The wheelbase and steering trail are big contributors to this. The Allez will be more "twitchy" which is good for making a fast turn but probably not what you will want if you are tired at the end a century and struggling to hold the bike in a straight line. How upright you are on the bike is probably the least important and most easily adjusted for factor.

ptle

umd is correct.

The Secteur will put you in a more comfortable biking position. Also the bike geometry is a little different making the bike more stable and upright. What you sacrifice from this is a little bit of cornering ability, and a little bit of aerodynamics from your body position. However, it's not something that is going to really prevent you go biking as fast. Plenty people bike on bikes with relaxed geometries along side with people on "racing bikes"

PaulRivers

I don't quite disagree with anything else that's been said, I'm just saying that it's not quite as straightforward as that one bike is "more comfortable". Basically, the Sectuer is more upright and is twitchier or "less responsive" depending on your taste. Everyone else's responses have pretty much covered everything, but it's a matter of tradeoffs -
1. There's a certain ideal point for most people between "twitchy" and "boringly unresponsive" in the handling.
2. You probably don't have to worry about the bike being "to upright", but I speak from experience when I say that having the handlebars to far below the saddle for some people works fine, but for other people like myself makes riding the bike...more difficult. I'm on like the 4th saddle I've tried, trying to find one that doesn't cause numbness down below after a ride. I don't have this problem on my bike where the handlebars are level or slightly above the seat. But to be fair - I don't believe the current Allez has as much of a drop as a full on race bike, like the Tarmac, so who knows.

You should probably ride both and just go with whatever you like the best. The speed difference between the 2 is small to non-existent. Mostly the difference is that the more "racy" bikes handle quicker "twitchier" - if you're racing with other people positioning can be important. If you're riding with your brother, probably not. The other thing is that racier bikes let you put a pretty big drop on the handlebars with a different stem so that you're slightly more aerodynamic. When you're racing, a 45 second improvement over an hour ride might mean the difference between 1st and 3rd place. When you're just out riding - it's not going to matter.

umd

The whole upright thing is a red herring, because most people who buy the Allez have a stack of spacers under the stem to raise the bars anyway. The Secteur has a higher head tube which means less spacers for the same bar height, and conversely not possible to put the bars as low as the Allez. But this is only an issue if you end up wanting the bars a) so low that the Secteur's head tube is too tall, or b) so high that there would be too many spacers for the Allez. And since we are talking about lower end bikes that almost certainly have metal steerer tubes (vs carbon steerers on higher end bikes), b probably isn't an issue.

PaulRivers

Really? You think most people go buy an Allez then go to the trouble, or even know it's possible, to add spacers to the bars?

I find that...unlikely.

umd

The geometry of both is very similar between both bikes. The Allez is a tiny bit more relaxed than the Tarmac but not nearly as much as the Roubaix/Secteur

umd

They come set up with a stack of spacers and an upright stem. Have you not seen pictures of people's bikes on bikeforums???

PaulRivers

I'm honestly not sure what you mean now -
"most people who buy the Allez will stick a stack of spacers under the stem to raise the bars"
"They come set up with a stack of spacers"

I don't doubt "most" people will even know that you can add spacers, so I don't think they'll add them. If you mean "they'll leave the spacers that the bike comes with on the bike", that's a different matter, I'd definitely agree most people will leave them on there.

umd

My POINT was that either bike can be set up to the same general range of bar heights, and that just because it is an Allez doesn't mean it will have the bars on the ground and a Secteur will have the bars in the air. You can get hung up on words about who put the spacers where or we can move on.

PaulRivers

I tried to be nice, but since you're being cranky back I'll just say that if you had said that in the first place, rather than what you actually said which was completely different, we wouldn't have had to go through all this. :-P

simonaway427

For 2011, the geometries are identical to their Carbon counterparts.

Roubaix/Secteur are the same - more comfortable "endurance" frame.
Tarmac/Allez are the same - more aggressive race frame.

Regardless of your choice, it won't be the bike that determines getting dropped by your brother.

robertc3

I just got a 2011 Secteur. I didn't like the twitchy steering of the race geometry bikes and the ride of the Secteur was quite comfortable. I am someone who likes the bars well below the saddle, so I flipped the stem and removed all of the spacers. This puts the bars in a position that is comfortable for me and if I want to get even more aero I can get in the drops. I say ride them both and just buy what feels comfortable. Don't be afraid to ask the shop to flip the stem or remove spacers before your test rides.

PaulRivers

Right, true - but that's a change that's new for the 2011 models.

Laminarman

I had a similar problem when shopping. I could have gotten a Cannondale Synapse or the CAAD9 R6. I chose the slightly more aggressive R6 and now I wish I chose the more relaxed geometry frame of the Synapse. With a few years under my belt, I can now tell the difference. I ride to try to have some semblance of fitness, not to race, and I just can't make this bike more upright without some goofy add on's. I've tried seat posts, stems, seats..etc, but I always feel very very hunched over. I rode a Roubaix last week, big mistake, I fell in love with that.

umd

As I said the geometry of the Allez and Tarmac are very close for 2010. Not identical, but hey not all the Tarmac models are identical either...

PaulRivers

And what I said was a reply to what someone else (other than you) said, which you can tell by the quote in my post.

garysol1 

UMD is completely correct and Paul has his panties in a wad over nothing. During the fit process I can drop the bars of the Secteur way below saddle height if the rider needs and I can raise the bars of the Allez to level with or above the saddle on a Allez. Of course if the Allez rider needs the bars that high then he is simply on the wrong bike and should have been on the Secteur anyways.

umd

Geez, my POINT is that the 2010 geometry might not be identical between the Allez and Tarmac but it is very VERY close.

PaulRivers

...and I specifically did not disagree with your post where you said that. It's true, they're close.

I didn't even disagree with the other guy I quoted, I simply clarified that that specifically applied to the 2011 models not the years before it so it was clear for anyone not intimately familiar with the product line. It wasn't a big deal.

PistolPeteMMA

So, I noticed on one of the shops websites that they already have the 2011 Allez in stock. It is a little more expensive than the 2010 model. Reading some of the above posts would have me thinking they've made quite few changes to the 2011 model. That being said, would the 2011 model be a better buy?