Frame identification for new member
#26
Disraeli Gears
Whoa, unworthy1, good eye. I'm embarrassed to say that I have another frame that has that lugset (a JRJ from the 50s) and I didn't notice that. Though the lugs on mine are not so deeply pointed as on GMull's frame:
Possibly the JRJ has a somewhat different nozzle cut than the true 86bis/158. It does also have a Nervex BB casting, and top/seat tubes lug that's the same as (or very similar to) that shown for the 86bis set. I've seen mention of Claud Butler frames with the 86bis/158 lugs too, but it's not nearly as ubiquitous as the "Professional" 49/162 set (which also had variations in the "whale's tail" over the years).
Possibly the JRJ has a somewhat different nozzle cut than the true 86bis/158. It does also have a Nervex BB casting, and top/seat tubes lug that's the same as (or very similar to) that shown for the 86bis set. I've seen mention of Claud Butler frames with the 86bis/158 lugs too, but it's not nearly as ubiquitous as the "Professional" 49/162 set (which also had variations in the "whale's tail" over the years).
Last edited by Charles Wahl; 05-25-21 at 08:45 PM.
#27
framebuilder
When I was wondering around the UK using a Brit Rail pass visiting frame builders looking for a place to learn in the early 70's, I was surprised at how many builders their actually were. There was a lot. Usually comments on these subject threads in C&V only mention the biggest and best known brands when in fact there is a much bigger pool to choose from. What is distinctive about this unknown path racer is the scallop in the wrap around seat stay treatment. I've never seen that anywhere before. It is possible that builder's work never reached the US and only a British member can identify who made it. Is it safe to assume GMull that this frame is located in the UK?
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#28
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Apologies, should have said at the start that I am in the UK.
I will post a couple more pictures later of front and rear clearance and in the meantime answer some of the questions raised.
Re drilling for front brake, yes it could originally have been intended for track and then drilled later, but looking at the frame angles, it didn't, to me at least, seem right and hence path/road came to mind. Could be wrong though.
UK had many many frame builders and agree they don't all feature on the classic lightweights site, but I have been through all the pictures on there and nothing that matches up frame number location i.e. on left hand rear dropout and style. There are no visible signs of a head badge and that, and the, relatively, low number i.e. 4 digits, suggests a low volume frame builder. In a small cycle shop they wouldn't be churning the frames out like the bigger boys.
As keen eyes have seen, the Nervex lugs have been worked on, as have the rear stays, so someone has put their own mark on it.
Stack height, I was told, should be around 34 to 38mm and have gone for 34mm and will use spacers as necessary and/or front brake hanger if I go for a centre pull brake. I don't intend to use a rear brake and will keep it fixed.
Hopefully that's all the questions answered for now, but let me know if not or if anything else comes to mind.
I will post a couple more pictures later of front and rear clearance and in the meantime answer some of the questions raised.
Re drilling for front brake, yes it could originally have been intended for track and then drilled later, but looking at the frame angles, it didn't, to me at least, seem right and hence path/road came to mind. Could be wrong though.
UK had many many frame builders and agree they don't all feature on the classic lightweights site, but I have been through all the pictures on there and nothing that matches up frame number location i.e. on left hand rear dropout and style. There are no visible signs of a head badge and that, and the, relatively, low number i.e. 4 digits, suggests a low volume frame builder. In a small cycle shop they wouldn't be churning the frames out like the bigger boys.
As keen eyes have seen, the Nervex lugs have been worked on, as have the rear stays, so someone has put their own mark on it.
Stack height, I was told, should be around 34 to 38mm and have gone for 34mm and will use spacers as necessary and/or front brake hanger if I go for a centre pull brake. I don't intend to use a rear brake and will keep it fixed.
Hopefully that's all the questions answered for now, but let me know if not or if anything else comes to mind.
#29
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This is a truly lovely frame. Do my eyes deceive me, or are there holes drilled in the rear track ends that are perhaps threaded for mudguard mounts?
#30
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Holes in track ends, and they don't appear to be threaded. These could, as with the front brake, have been drilled at a later date, and there are no eyes on the forks for a front mudguard.