hotbike

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...0,799312.story

Quote:

"SHIPSHEWANA, Ind.— Authorities say a man and his 4-year-old daughter out on a bicycle ride were struck and killed in northern Indiana.

The LaGrange County Sheriff's Department says the two were riding on a rural section of Indiana 120 near the town of Shipshewana Sunday afternoon when their bike was hit from behind by a vehicle.

The Elkhart Truth reports that 32-year-old Jason Helmuth of Shipshewana and his daughter Jayna were killed in the crash.

Police say the driver told investigators that he didn't see the bike before the crash. "

hotbike

This is a very sad story. My condolences go out to the Mother and rest of the family.

I don't think the Police did their job though, it would be better if the driver was in jail cooling his heels, for a few weeks at least. Should be charges of negligent manslaughter , at the very least. I had a look at Google street view, and I don't see any obstruction that could have blocked the drivers view.

FXjohn

this happened near me. the 22 year old driver had to be admitted to a hospital he's so traumatized.

Digital_Cowboy

What was the driver doing that he didn't see cyclists? Not that it excuses the driver's having hit them, but were the road/lighting conditions like?

Exactly, why isn't this person in jail? He needs to be in jail. My sympathies to the family for their loss and in their time of need.

Are we suppose to feel bad that because of the drivers negligence that he has been so "traumatized" that he has had to be hospitalized? Hopefully his ass is warming a bed in the jail wing of the hospital.

CB HI

And the second daughter is now without a father.

https://goshennews.com/obituaries/x52...a-Rose-Helmuth

Chris516

I think the driver is faking it to avoid responsibility.

CB HI

Lucas Currier of Middlebury, age 22, knew better but still killed this father and 4 year old girl.

From his myspace blog

https://www.myspace.com/lucasc07/blog/360382806

genec

Did the LEOs check for TWD (Texting While Driving)? 22 year old eh... raised in the world of cell phones, and new to driving.

CB HI

Seems he switched to 'Myspace for BlackBerry' about 2 years ago.

Could it have been an extremely critical Myspace response?

randya

those records can be subpoenaed

CB HI

? According to this article, it took them an hour from the collision to death at the scene?

Mom and toddler were riding with father and saw the entire event.

https://www.etruth.com/Know/News/Story.aspx?ID=541706

Post #147689

CB HI

Video says they died instantly, story text still indicates 65 minutes.

https://www.wndu.com/localnews/headli...121477059.html

ladyraestewart

He deserves to be traumatized. Think about the victims' family -- I dare say they are traumatized and they did nothing wrong. I'll bet the farm if they report further on this situation we'll learn he was (1) texting or (2) on the phone.

FXjohn

i;m not trying to excuse anything. I live here and hear about idiots hitting cyclists and buggies all the time. actually drove by a dead horse last friday that had gotten hit .

Paul Barnard

How inattentive do you have to be to not see a bicycle in the road ahead? Bicyclists are easy to see. They look like bicyclists to anyone exercising so much as a modicum of care and vigilance.

UptownJoe60640

This is just sad. He will say to the end "They came out of no where" or "I didn't even see them" and this excuse is perfectly acceptable in most situations where a "cyclist" is injured/killed by a motorist. Totally, unacceptable behaviour. One, the driver should have his licenses taken for 20 damn years, if not for life, put in jail for atleast a year and fined out of the ass! He killed a man and a child! He hit them with his car while they were on a bicycle! When has it become totally acceptable for a driver to be totally irresponsible that he kills/injures someone on a bicycle and the excuses they give are basically blaming themselves but get away with it? It is so sad that this behaviour is some what acceptable and non-punishable. Oh, but, he was also traumatized! Much better than being dead ****** bag!

RyanReasons

These stories usually end with the motorist getting a slap on the wrist. "I didn't see him" is a confession, not a defense, but that doesn't matter if a prosecutor or judge is deeply biased in favor of motorists.

Infidel79

This is a terribly sad story, I extend my condolences to the family of the deceased. I am both a cyclist and a motorist. When I am driving, I always give cyclists a wide berth and hope to shape the behavior of those driving around me. I might add, that as a motorist, there have been several occasions when I have been surprised by something on or near the road that I didn't see until the last moment. Driving is inherently risky (certainly from a public safety perspective), and requires a degree of vigilance that is difficult to maintain for extended periods. The driver could very well have been doing something distracting, which is stupid and dangerous, or could have just as easily been directing his attention to a safety concern that was seemingly more imminent or obvious, failing to notice the bicycle.

Visual awareness while driving is complex, especially as speed increases. Many people, motorists and non-motorists alike, probably do not adequately appreciate this fact. By way of example, there is evidence suggesting that daytime running lights (DRLs) on cars can actually contribute to motorcycle fatalities. For instance, a motorcycle could be traveling along a highway, with a DRL-equipped car traveling at a similar speed some distance behind the motorcycle. In the dangerous scenario, the motorcycle is obscuring the right headlamp of the trailing car, with the left lamp visible. Thus, one headlamp from the motorcycle is visible, as is one headlamp from the trailing car. The apparent lateral spacing between the two sources of light approximates that of a pair of car headlamps some considerable distance away. To a motorist waiting to make a right turn onto the highway, it appears to be one car, a safe distance away, when in fact the motorcyclist is right in the danger zone. If the waiting motorist makes the turn, a serious accident unfolds. I know this isn't even remotely what happened, but I think it illustrates a point, which is that bizarre circumstances can lead to otherwise innocent accidents. As we all know, bicyclists are extremely vulnerable to any contact with a car, however it may occur.

We all know that cycling among cars can be dangerous for us. Indeed, this danger is real. Many of us invest in several hundred dollars worth of high-visibility safety clothing and equipment, essentially acknowledging the fact that the consequences of not being seen, day or night, can be fatal. For a little perspective, head on over to the commuting forum. Those guys are warriors.

The bottom line, I suppose, is this: Whether the cyclist and the motorist were behaving appropriately or not does not change the outcome of the story. It is purely tragic. Nevertheless, I hope justice is served.

PS- I know I am new here, and my intention is to offer broader perspective, not to stir the pot. Please take my message in the spirit it is intended.

genec

No, we are constantly told that cycling is not dangerous... and folks constantly pull statistics out so show just that... Here is a thread that pops up from time to time in various forms... https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-not-dangerous.

And the reality is that cycling is not dangerous... but being around poor drivers, that fail to look ahead and see, and may be distracted, perhaps driving too fast for their skills and conditions... now that IS dangerous. But 40,000 or so deaths a year are not enough for Americans to realize this, and thus the tragedy continues... all in the name of "personal freedom."

Now excuse me while I go out and raise the speed limit somewhere...

himespau 

Unless that stretch of road has changed since I lived there, I don't think I'd cycle on it if I had the option (though as the victims may have been Amish, they may not have had alternatives). It's a flat boring road that too often I found myself speeding on with my mind on other things (especially after a long night on 2nd or 3rd shift). Not saying it to excuse the driver, but just to remind myself to be more careful the next time I go home (or get in a car at all). When I was in high school and running to get in shape for cross country I had a couple of hillbilly drivers around that general area swerve at me on purpose and make me jump into a ditch, but on a bicycle my biggest fear was all the drivers whipping around curves way too fast on the back country roads without looking where they were going.

bluefoxicy

https://www.gettingaroundgermany.info/regeln.shtml

What does this mean?

I still want a complete conversion of German law to the US; I'd even quite like converting to kph rather than mph, but I'm hung on that one. English (rather than German) signs, of course. People tell me it'd be tough, expensive, and unreasonable; but I quite like the structure of their traffic laws, and I think it'd pay off in the end.

By the way, a child on a bicycle is a child on/near the road. Maybe not a pedestrian, but still.

Let's stop attacking the motorists and start fixing our motor culture (and laws) to make this less of a problem. That's where you start. If we had these kinds of traffic laws, this particular incident would have no standing in court: he's ultimately responsible for what happened, by law, regardless of circumstances. As it stands, he can argue his way out of it; he doesn't even need to argue for non-visibility, a serious challenge in Germany given that their law might be unsympathetic even for ninja-bikers in total stealth mode. Can you see them now? Oh, then you weren't paying attention, guilty as charged.

More likely, though, given Germany's driver's ed is pretty close to what I want here, with all kinds of collision avoidance training and strong focus on vehicular awareness, the whole incident wouldn't have happened because the driver would have had better training and been more focused on his surroundings. This is the outcome I want here. Jailing motorists who roll over pedestrians or cyclists is a waste of time; everyone else will externalize it, because they're used to seeing cyclists and not running over them, and they already don't want to crush bikes and bikers under their wheels, so it's a null-impact.

Increasing the penalties without bothering to fix the system would only be vengeful, not a deterrent; I don't care about punishment, I care about preventing people from being dead.

badbradclark

Driving has become so routine, it is easy to forget about the possible devastation that a car cause. Even when you think you are attentive, you may not be. Maybe your eyes are on the road, but the radio is playing a favorite song and your mind is focused on the lyrics and not on the details of what is in front of you. And it's not just poor drivers...it may be a very good driver, who just for a split second, lost concentration and the worst happens. It is stories like this that really make me think about what I do when I drive and really try and focus on driving instead of everything else that is going on. Because in the wrong place at the wrong time, it could be just about anyone...

Infidel79

I looked at the link you posted...that and your comment are thought provoking; thanks. I guess I didn't place much emphasis on this in my original statement, but please note that I said "...cycling among cars can be dangerous...", with additional emphasis on "among cars" and "can be". Of course, cycling in and of itself is not a high-risk activity. If I'm getting the message of your post, I think we're basically in agreement here.

bluefoxicy

Attentiveness when driving is a skill, and a skill we don't teach. A "split second" isn't enough to make a mistake; your eyes are supposed to periodically scan the road around you. From far off, you'll quickly and rapidly recognize hazards, including other motorists (ESPECIALLY erratic ones--that wobbly car up ahead that keeps brushing your lane and then sharply pulling away? He's pondering a lane change, not sure if it's safe, will probably change FAST and without signal in a daze), pedestrians, animals, loose things that could suddenly drop in the road and obstruct/frighten you or other drivers, etc.

You should know where your openings are, and where other cars are; other cars are mostly not an issue, but when the guy in the next lane suddenly yanks his car across 4 lanes to barely make an exit, you should react to his ACTION and not his EXISTENCE. The same goes for cyclists and pedestrians. Cyclists can always wobble and wind up saving from a fall by cutting wide; they could suddenly be directly in front of you. The very act of recognizing a cyclist should immediately trigger all parts of your brain that project various emergency situations: hitting a bump and losing control, falling off, avoiding an obstacle, just plain being ******** ... these things happen, you should be prepared to react.

This sort of consideration eventually becomes subconscious. You see a cyclist, you slow down, you track behind with enough distance to react. This of course quickly comes into your conscious mind, but by that time you've already recognized and prepared for any hazard the cyclist can cause. When you pass, you will be fully focused on those hazards; you will be taking additional risks (speeding up, overtaking), but you'll be extremely attentive and you have no excuse if you haven't selected various escape plans in case something bad happens (immediate braking, enough room in the next lane to swerve over without causing a major accident, etc).

It is habit and training. Even in martial arts, there is a strong component called awareness training: the first step to winning is not losing, and you need to see the knife when it's drawn suddenly as it's plunged in your direction. These people are trained to react to a completely unpredicted threat that can fatally wound them in 1/10 of 1 second; drivers can be trained to predict and react, and in fact they are made to do just that in many European countries where driving is a privilege rather than an entitlement.

You can't prevent every accident, you can't make anything perfect; but you can do quite a lot.

ladyraestewart

If you give a little thought to vehicles today it is a simple route to inattentativeness. Cars become more about letting the car drive than requiring the driver do the work. There's automatic transmissions and cruise control. There are warning sensors to alert you when you are too close to an obstruction and now even vehicles that park themselves. Then we add in all the distractions such as a 10 disc CD player, GPS, OnStar, cell phones, laptops, built in DVD players, plugs for electronic devises, cup holders, etc., etc., etc. Is it any wonder driver distraction is so prevalent?