Scottybigs 

I was going to add a similar qualifier to my post (something along the lines of 'Jan Heine's budget vs. the rest'), but was too lazy. Point made and point agreed upon.

I think the 650b conversion option works for a lot of folks who have had an existing bike that they've ridden for a few years, love it, but decide they want that fat tire potential. So they've made the initial capital investment in said vintage bike, but make the 2nd investment almost as it's own independent bike expenditure (versus seeing the project from the start as a $X will get me vintage bike Y + 650b setup).

I point out the 650b option to a lot of folks at our shop, but many of them balk at the idea of investing more on the parts to convert their favourite Japanese sport touring frame to 650b than what they originally paid for the whole bike to begin with (up in Canada, component prices are killing us right now). The response is usually "I could just find another vintage bike but with better tire clearance", and then they look at me like I'm a trendy idiot.

I will say that thanks to the hard work of the BQ team and those pushing the C&V conversions, I'm seeing component costs (long-reach Tektro's, wheelsets and tires) starting to actually come down a bit thanks to competition from mainstream bike companies. Urbane Cyclist in Toronto is selling Tektro 559's for $35 CAD a piece--that's a full $10 less after exchange than getting them from Velo Orange

Now I just have to convince my brother that his Miyata 912 would look dope with Hetres and fenders.

mountaindave 

Will do! And thanks for the tip. As a C/V'er, you know I'm into deals on used equipment.

ColonelJLloyd 

This is about right, but there are a few builders who make/sell custom frames with all the braze-ons and what not for $1800-2200. Not to take away from your projects, which are super fun and I'm sure very rewarding. If I had the shop space I would invest in a small setup and start playing around myself.

gugie 

You don't need much. This guy lives in a condo in SF, and has a small workbench in his one car garage. He uses a propane/oxygen torch setup

rhm

On Saturday I rode a 200 km brevet on the Bottecchia I mentioned above. I definitely disliked having the headlight above the handlebar; I got a distracting light on the top of the front bag, and not really enough light on the road. So I needed to figure out a way to get a headlight onto the front rack. Alas, most cheap dynamo headlights --as well as most expensive ones-- have the mount underneath the light, and you mustn't mount them upside down for electrical reasons (yes, they fill up with water )

So I looked around one of the boxes of junk in my cellar and found this chain ring. I don't know where it came from; I don't have a crank that it would fit.



I cut off some unnecessary parts of it:


... attached the light...



and I put it on the bike.

AZORCH

Well that is definitely an elegant looking solution. I have used a center pull brake caliper arm to meet this need before. I like how yours seems to put less stress on the balancing point.

rhm

Yeah, thanks, I'm kinda pleased! It is a tight fit, but not too tight. I even like how the extra hole in the chain ring turned out to be useful. As you can see from the second photo, I didn't take much care filing it smooth, because I didn't want to waste the effort if it wasn't going to work. But now I'm encouraged, and I'll improve on it at some point.

mountaindave 

Nice light mount! I think I would have left some teeth on it to look badass.

nlerner

Yeah, it could have served as a ninja weapon at some point. Nice job, @rhm!

rhm

Well, that would explain why the dried grunge on it washed off in cold water, didn't have to use degreaser at all.

lonesomesteve

One thing I would add is that doing the kind of 650b conversion that involves added braze ons, relocated brake mounts, etc. only really makes financial sense if you can do that work yourself. Paying a professional frame builder to do that work would add up quickly and it's not long before you're close to the price of a custom frame.

rhm, nicely done on the light mount! I love seeing old parts re-purposed in elegant ways.

gugie 

Clever!

noglider 

I have a similar light mount using a center-pull brake part as @AZORCH used. But the fit isn't good. I like the chainring idea and might try it.

And modern headlights have a second reason not to flip them: the light beam will be shaped wrong.

Jmclay

I'm new to Bike Forums but have been active on some other lists for a long time and have been building frames for myself, friends and family for the past ten or fifteen years. Although you guys have had it long figured out, I feel compelled to note that I think these 650B conversions are tremendous.

We emulate what we see and when these old bikes were new, and I was a lot younger, racing and racing iron (or race looking iron) dominated the magazines and pretty much everything else. A proper bicycle had skinny tires, no fenders and for most of us who didn't race was pretty much a fashion accoutrement of the era; you can see that reflected in the print/photo/film media of the 70s, my favorite example being Dustin Hoffman's often present bicycle in All The President's Men. Of course they could be useful, and for some were a main mode of transportation, but that involved a small minority of the quantity sold and they had the practical limitations of which everyone reading this thread is well aware. So to re-fit what were often middling, wannabe racing or “sporting” bicycles that for the most part spent the vast majority of their lives gathering dust, to be in every way vastly more capable and useful than when they were produced is fantastic!

I've not done one of these but being a “value” shopper, and acutely aware of the highly non-linear price/performance curve related to such things, I found myself curious as to what it would cost to do a basic re-fit but not at the “clamp-on” accoutrement level; rather, brazed-on brake studs, new bridges placed for proper fender lines, a steerer braze-on for the front fender, fork re-raked. A step beyond that would be a Sanyo or similar gen hub, a “less expensive” LED Headlight and a common, fender mount LED tail light. A lot of you have already plowed this field but I wanted to put it in a spreadsheet (which I can't yet post but ask and I'll email it). It's round-number stuff.

1) I'm seeing about $400 (no shipping allowance, anywhere) for decent rims (VO), spokes & nipples (DT), tires (Pacenti), brakes (Tektro cantis) and fenders (VO) and maybe $250 or $300 for necessary supporting labor (that's a guess, based on a guess of how long it'd take me). If using Compass grade stuff (which is obviously wonderful), the parts are about $1000. You lace your own wheels to the old hubs.
2) Add a Sanyo hub, front rack (VO), Cyo and Seculite front & rear, for about $300 and it's an all weather, day/night utility/performance bicycle! You run your own wires however you can/want. Upgrade to Compass, Edelux & Schmidt and its about $900.

That if you have an old Raleigh International or some such, and a spare $1000 or so (call it $1300 to cover shipping and incidentals), you can turn it into a supremely effective utility and sporting bicycle that for all but the most serious competitors would rival the functionality of a custom randonneuse costing many thousands more, is astonishing, and fabulous.

John Clay
Tallahassee, Florida

AZORCH

John, great observations. I'll add to it by also pointing out that many of us here have a pretty decent treasure trove of parts hanging about just waiting to be built into something interesting. With parts, and possibly even a frame, in hand, the cost of doing business drops substantially.

Jmclay

An extensive parts box is a wonderful thing! There is a friendly bike shop here that allows me to rummage through their old parts bins. It's very helpful.

mountaindave 

Just remember that the treasure trove typically has some cost into it as well... it's just been paid for by now.

That's a pretty good way to put the philosophy: repurpose something so that it is useful again, and perhaps even more useful than when originally made.

eom 

[QUOTE=mountaindave;20285844]Just remember that the treasure trove typically has some cost into it as well... it's just been paid for by now.

Sunk Cost

DIMcyclist

It can be done on the cheap, and I've done it- albeit with a 26" MTB frame adapted to 650b, rather than a 700c frame converted for smaller rims.

A mid-1980s, higher-end, long-frame MTB is a good place to start... A lot of these were lugged & quite stylish (a handful were even designed for long-reach caliper brakes); with patience you can find them in good shape on your local CL for less than $100, and keep most of the parts, replacing only those that are worn out or sub-par (another $100 or so). You will have to look around a bit for brakes that will accommodate the extra 5mm needed for the 650b rims; don't skimp on these, they'll run about $40 - $70 for a good set.

For wheels, Wienmann makes the ZAC-19 rim in 650b and sells it as an inexpensive, factory-built wheelset; it's not flashy, but it's perfectly functional (I have a set that I keep as spares, purchased for $50 via our local CL from a guy who gave up on converting his own bike). If you keep your eyes open, you can occasionally snag a set of these new, from eBay for about $80. However much you want to spend on bells & whistles past that point is up to you.

And the rest is labor. If you can do your own work, you'll save a bundle (upwards of $200) and have a lot more fun with it. I suppose the above budget could just as easily be applied to a road frame as to a vintage MTB frame.

If you want to go first-class with such a project, moving brake bosses around & such, there's no limit to what you can spend; but when I set out to reversion my Panasonic, my goal was to end up with a complete bike that would do everything a Riv Sam Hilborne would do, for less than the cost of a Hilborne frameset. I beat that goal by $200 (total cost: $1100)- including a top-shelf build (XTR/ Sugino/ Thomson/ Brooks/ Nitto, Velocity, etc), custom wheelset (par moi), custom paint, and frame repairs & modifications by a famed local builder. All the labor (aside from mounting the headset) was done by yours truly.

In addition to being a perfect city bike (and a pleasure to ride), the bike is a statement to the value of patience & smart budgeting. If I'd gone the el-cheapo route, I could have built this bike- frame & all- for about $450.

Fwiw, my Atlantis- a rando originally designed for 650b- has a budget of $900, including the initial cost of the frame, new paint (again, par moi- since I'm a graphics pro), & restoration decals.

It's especially wonderful when you already have a bunch of 650b-related parts in it!

-

JaccoW

I was going through my parts box today in preparation for something similar I am doing next week.
Nice to see one more example of this popping up.

The inner chainring of a Stronglight crank I have looks like a good option.

Jmclay

That was me. It was a quick way to make a set of posts, right then, with materials on hand. After doing those I got some steel tubing to substitute for the donor canti posts. I don't remember the OD/ID and am not near home right now to check, but it was nice to eliminate cannibalizing perfectly good canti posts. It's very easy to do, doesn't take much time and as an added bonus, if you're new to brazing, you can look at it as brazing practice.

dschell

My Motobecane Grand Record 650b conversion.

motochick 

Here are two recent new builds we did. First up is a 1991 Schwinn Paramount PDG Series 5 I picked up while buying a '85 Centurion Elite RS for my husband for a 650b conversion (it is still under construction). This bike was NOS and I wasn't sure if the 650b was even going to work but I had to get it either way, it was a brand new bike! Sorry for the mismatched tires, we threw this together out of parts we had lying around. Next up is the 1986 Centurion Ironman I have wanted since I was 16 yrs old, I got it for $50! It has become my favorite bike, the ride is incredible. I just changed the shifters tonite so they are not in the first two photos.


1991 Schwinn Paramount PDG Series 5

It clears!

10sp in style

1986 Centurion Ironman

COLOR!!

10sp in style

mhespenheide 

Nice! What tire size do you have in there? I have a 62cm PDG...

dschell

Front rack is still a work in progress