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Bitten by Tubeless

Old 12-27-19, 03:46 PM
  #26  
WhyFi
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I just grabbed my Varia to charge it after my 69 (giggidy) mile ride. I noticed a bit of schmutz on it. Checked my rear tire - yup, a little more than 10 psi lower than when I set out this morning. This is pretty much my typical tubeless experience.
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Old 12-27-19, 05:17 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by wgscott
Does anyone put sealant inside their tubes? I was wondering about this yesterday when I took a valve core out of a spare to give it to the kid, who needed it for his high-maintenance tubeless setup. (Why do they have removable valve cores in tubes?)

Apart from having 100 ml of fluid sloshing around, would there be any disadvantage to putting sealant in tubes?
When I lived in Northern ID with plenty of those goatheads, I bought tubes that came new with slime in them. Worked fine. This was the goopy green stuff that they sell for cars and yard equipment, but I see no reason why the latex based tubeless sealants would work any different.


Living in MI now, I rarely get flats and have certainly spent more time at home messing with getting tubeless to work than I have spent fixing flats. I'd love a tubeless setup that I could run without sealant, but they all seem to require some glue to seal up enough to be ride-worthy.
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Old 12-27-19, 05:32 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
Am I happy about things like rim tape and the cost of tubeless tires? Umm, no. But I had exactly two flats in 2019-- over 10k miles-- and both resulted in the total loss of the tire.
What tires are you using on the road bike? Schwalbe G-One Speed tires are about $44 at Merlin Cycles.

No flats in 2019(over 10k miles), and the ride is fast/smooth.
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Old 12-27-19, 06:54 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I just grabbed my Varia to charge it after my 69 (giggidy) mile ride. I noticed a bit of schmutz on it. Checked my rear tire - yup, a little more than 10 psi lower than when I set out this morning. This is pretty much my typical tubeless experience.
That's been pretty much my experience. Seals up in about one revolution. Sometimes I feel it on a leg, most times I don't know it even happened.

Originally Posted by DrIsotope
My personal opinions about tubeless, having in excess of 40k miles sans-tubes:

Do you get a lot of puncture flats? Like more than 1-2 a month?
Do you ride a lot of miles, like more than 100 miles a week, and answered yes to question 1?

Then tubeless is absolutely for you. Otherwise, maybe not. Barring tires like Hardshells, I would get flats every 6 days or so. I live in the unofficial goathead and bottle glass capital of the world. So tubeless, absolutely.

Am I happy about things like rim tape and the cost of tubeless tires? Umm, no. But I had exactly two flats in 2019-- over 10k miles-- and both resulted in the total loss of the tire.
I ride on primarily rural highways that don't ever get swept. Before tubeless, I was getting a flat about every 400-500 miles. After going tubeless, I get somewhere around 6000 miles per flat - so little, I don't bother keeping track anymore. Big advantage for me since I'm riding in a forested area and stopping to change tubes during certain times of the year is to invite the loss of significant blood volume to mosquitos (Minnesota State Bird).

But I do agree that it's going to be situational.

Originally Posted by noodle soup
What tires are you using on the road bike? Schwalbe G-One Speed tires are about $44 at Merlin Cycles.

No flats in 2019(over 10k miles), and the ride is fast/smooth.
I've been using the both the Schwalbe Pro 1 and the G-1 speeds on my gravel bike. Both tires feel much better without a tube, more supple. The G-1 speeds feel like I was driving a truck with tubes. When I set them up tubeless, felt noticeably better. That said, I was paying a lot more attention to inflation pressure after the change to tubeless but I wasn't far enough off before to matter that much.
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Old 12-28-19, 04:25 AM
  #30  
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Looking through the offerings from various online retailers I find road tubeless tyres to be an expensive proposition and then there is the sealant, and new rims. - All to solve issues that are largely self imposed by running too thin and fragile race day tyres, all the time. The other solution is to stop fussing over 100g and a few watt rolling resistance and run less fragile tubed tyres at 1/2 the price and 2x the longevity. At least wile training. The likelihood of having a big gash like OPs instant flat is greatly reduced too.

Mind you, I used to get a lot of flats running cheap training tyres that couldn't resist sharp flints. From that perspective tubeless was tempting, but price made me try out different other tubed tyres before taking the plunge. Im glad I did. Since getting tyres with a kevlar belt i have had exactly one flat. Currently running both the lifeline prime race and amour. I see no reason to move on to expensive TL tyres and the associated faff, to solve an issue that is already solved.

Last edited by Racing Dan; 12-28-19 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 12-28-19, 05:00 AM
  #31  
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I can only go by my experience with my Mavic Ksyrium Elite USTs. And, that's been one season. However, the tubeless replace some Mavic Aksiums that came on my new CAAD 12. They are lighter, smoother, more comfortable and easier to spin up. I've had zero problems with set up or use. And, at about $400 a set w/tires they are a killer deal. I'm not going back.
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Old 12-28-19, 05:06 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I just grabbed my Varia to charge it after my 69 (giggidy) mile ride. I noticed a bit of schmutz on it. Checked my rear tire - yup, a little more than 10 psi lower than when I set out this morning. This is pretty much my typical tubeless experience.
Funny thing is that’s my latex tube experience as well. Butyl dies the instant it’s compromised. Earlier this year I went to check AG’s tires the day after a ride. Rear was dead. Pulled out the construction staple, easy clean tube change, done. The latex held pressure enough that the ride was finished without noticing

It depends greatly not just on frequency but nature of the flat. Her previous flat was a 3” nail that ripped a half-inch hole in her tire and put an extra smoke hole in her rim. Luckily it ONLY hit the bed of her Knot64 and the rim survived, but as it was barely at the halfway point of a large loop (of course) we had to risk going back on a boot, which barely held.

Tubeless has mostly not taken off in the tri geek community, even among those like me who experimented.
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Old 12-28-19, 05:49 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Funny thing is that’s my latex tube experience as well. Butyl dies the instant it’s compromised. Earlier this year I went to check AG’s tires the day after a ride. Rear was dead. Pulled out the construction staple, easy clean tube change, done. The latex held pressure enough that the ride was finished without noticing

It depends greatly not just on frequency but nature of the flat. Her previous flat was a 3” nail that ripped a half-inch hole in her tire and put an extra smoke hole in her rim. Luckily it ONLY hit the bed of her Knot64 and the rim survived, but as it was barely at the halfway point of a large loop (of course) we had to risk going back on a boot, which barely held.

Tubeless has mostly not taken off in the tri geek community, even among those like me who experimented.
Well, the difference is that my "fix" wasn't replacing a tube, it was putting 10psi back in.

As far as the tri community, I was just read an article the other day about the adoption rate and how it differs between the pro and amateur ranks - the author compared it to wet suit use years back. Anyway, he says that, at the least, the top men are moving towards it.
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Old 12-28-19, 08:57 AM
  #34  
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Count me out on tubeless, road or otherwise. There just isn't any part of them that interests me. I repair motorcycles and change tires; anyone who brings me a tire job with sealant in them is headed right back out the door.
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Old 12-28-19, 09:47 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by nomadmax
Count me out on tubeless, road or otherwise. There just isn't any part of them that interests me. I repair motorcycles and change tires; anyone who brings me a tire job with sealant in them is headed right back out the door.
If you ride off-road in my area(Greater Phoenix) and don't go tubeless w/sealant, you'll spend more time repairing flats than you will riding.
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Old 12-28-19, 10:02 AM
  #36  
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I rode the desert trails for 8 years in the North Valley there with only one flat tire. Still, these trails offer plenty of opportunity for snake-bites (both kinds).
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Old 12-28-19, 04:01 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
My personal opinions about tubeless, having in excess of 40k miles sans-tubes:

Do you get a lot of puncture flats? Like more than 1-2 a month?
Do you ride a lot of miles, like more than 100 miles a week, and answered yes to question 1?

Then tubeless is absolutely for you. Otherwise, maybe not. Barring tires like Hardshells, I would get flats every 6 days or so. I live in the unofficial goathead and bottle glass capital of the world. So tubeless, absolutely.

Am I happy about things like rim tape and the cost of tubeless tires? Umm, no. But I had exactly two flats in 2019-- over 10k miles-- and both resulted in the total loss of the tire.
I have 5 bikes and 10 spare wheels, most of which are tired, aired up and ready to ride. Some bikes sit for months without attention then get grabbed on a lark. I like that with tubes, all are ready to go with just a pump up.

Ben
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Old 12-28-19, 06:12 PM
  #38  
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I got stranded with a flat on tubeless because I couldn't figure out how to remove enough of the tire to insert a tube. Now that I understand what to do, I'm still nervous it'll happen again. As odd as it sounds, I don't notice much of a difference vs. clinchers.

Sometimes instead, I wish that I bought tubular wheels because I know for certain how to perform a roadside swap, and tubulars have a much more distinctive lightweight feel than tubeless.
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Old 12-28-19, 08:04 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Robert A
I got stranded with a flat on tubeless because I couldn't figure out how to remove enough of the tire to insert a tube. Now that I understand what to do, I'm still nervous it'll happen again.
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Old 12-28-19, 08:09 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
You wouldn't be rolling on the floor laughing if it happened to you in the middle of a rainstorm, outside of cell range. It wasn't fun.
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Old 12-28-19, 08:09 PM
  #41  
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Removal of the tire is the opposite of installation.
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Old 12-28-19, 08:18 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Robert A
You wouldn't be rolling on the floor laughing if it happened to you in the middle of a rainstorm, outside of cell range. It wasn't fun.
How is any different than changing a tubed clincher? Sure it can be a little harder to get the tire off, but you "couldn't figure it out".

I'm still laughing about that.
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Old 12-28-19, 10:13 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Robert A
You wouldn't be rolling on the floor laughing if it happened to you in the middle of a rainstorm, outside of cell range. It wasn't fun.
One reason I rode tubulars for so long was that I could always change out the tire and get home. In the dark, very tired, inebriated, in the rain, below freezing. And in not much more than 5 minutes. So if I was in a place that wasn't the smartest place to hang out, I knew I could leave. (And if it was a really marginal area, I could ride on the flatted rim and not stop at all. Probably the end of that being a nice rim, but I would get to keep it and the rest of the bike.)

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Old 12-29-19, 09:19 AM
  #44  
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road (high pressure, 23 or 25C): tubes
MTB: tubeless
track and TT: tubular
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Old 12-29-19, 09:32 AM
  #45  
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Question for the tubeless owners that ride a lot and would have flatted a lot with conventional tires and tubes. I assume that the debris that would have flatted conventional tires is embedded in your tubeless tires. Obviously, the tire casing is compromised. Do you try to identity and remove debris such as glass?
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Old 12-29-19, 09:45 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Hermes
Question for the tubeless owners that ride a lot and would have flatted a lot with conventional tires and tubes. I assume that the debris that would have flatted conventional tires is embedded in your tubeless tires. Obviously, the tire casing is compromised. Do you try to identity and remove debris such as glass?
I'll let you know when it happens.

11k miles on road tubeless this year, and I haven't flatted yet.The tires might be a little more expensive, but not buying tubes or CO2, saves more than the difference in cost.
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Old 12-29-19, 09:47 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
If you ride off-road in my area(Greater Phoenix) and don't go tubeless w/sealant, you'll spend more time repairing flats than you will riding.
How would tubed w/ sealant be any different from tubeless w/ sealant?
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Old 12-29-19, 10:08 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Hermes
Question for the tubeless owners that ride a lot and would have flatted a lot with conventional tires and tubes. I assume that the debris that would have flatted conventional tires is embedded in your tubeless tires. Obviously, the tire casing is compromised. Do you try to identity and remove debris such as glass?
I used to look for puncture sites when I noticed some sealant spray, but I don't bother most of the time any more. I haven't yet seen a puncture that sealed yet compromised the casing enough to show a bulge. I still inspect my tires occasionally, but I'm mostly looking at cuts and wear, and can't recall coming across embedded debris.
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Old 12-29-19, 10:12 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Caliper
How would tubed w/ sealant be any different from tubeless w/ sealant?
I'm not sure those "Slime" tubes ever worked or did more than make a mess and make patching a tube more difficult.
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Old 12-29-19, 10:22 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Caliper
How would tubed w/ sealant be any different from tubeless w/ sealant?
tubes pinch flat easily when running at low pressure, and sealant isn't going to stop the leak.
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