What became of Rapid Rise?
05-04-14, 08:17 PM
#26
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+1. The integrated shifters were not many people's favorite, for sure, and Shimano re-introduced Rapid Rise and the new shifters at the same time, with the shifters optimized for Rapid Rise RD's. Rapid Rise RD's gained more fans than the shifters I'd guess, but it certainly didn't help Rapid Rise's popularity to be associated with those weird shifters/brake levers.
05-04-14, 08:21 PM
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My disdain for RR is purely about the RD itself; I've actually never come across those weird shifters.
They sound kinda cool, like a MTB version of the road levers? I love being able to brake and downshift with one movement.
They sound kinda cool, like a MTB version of the road levers? I love being able to brake and downshift with one movement.
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Last edited by Kimmo; 05-04-14 at 08:25 PM.
05-04-14, 08:34 PM
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The only thing I really didn't like about those shifters was that they were bulky. The future is most likely some sort of integrated setup with internal gearing.
05-04-14, 08:49 PM
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In a broad sense, yes, since the brake lever also serves as a shift lever. But the motion was up-or-down with the mountain shifters, instead of a push to the inside like with road shifters. Some people liked them; most didn't, it seems. They went away pretty quickly.
05-05-14, 02:30 AM
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Sounds exactly like a road STI at 90°.
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05-05-14, 05:22 AM
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I know that it sounds silly...
Anyhow, we've used this setup for the last three years.
05-05-14, 06:10 AM
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Kimmo, you and I usually agree on stuff, but this is an exception.
I never liked low normal rears, bt high normal front makes sense for many people, especially newbies.
One of the original ideas was to overcome the confusion among new riders by having both levers move forward to shift to high, and back for low. This seems trivial to us, but I assure that as a retailer in the early years of derailleur bikes in the USA, that levers moving in opposite directions for the same purpose, confused folks.
The second advantage, again mainly for less experienced riders is the issue of late shifting of the front on climbs. Today's gated chainrings solves this somewhat but before those, the chain tension would be too much for the FD spring, and the shift wouldn't happen. The delay made things worse as folks increased pedal pressure hoping not to stall. High normal fronts, allow the rider to force the shift.
Of course, things like gated shifting, and a bit of experience solves the issues, but for the target market of the era when it was introduced, high normal front made a world of sense.
I never liked low normal rears, bt high normal front makes sense for many people, especially newbies.
One of the original ideas was to overcome the confusion among new riders by having both levers move forward to shift to high, and back for low. This seems trivial to us, but I assure that as a retailer in the early years of derailleur bikes in the USA, that levers moving in opposite directions for the same purpose, confused folks.
The second advantage, again mainly for less experienced riders is the issue of late shifting of the front on climbs. Today's gated chainrings solves this somewhat but before those, the chain tension would be too much for the FD spring, and the shift wouldn't happen. The delay made things worse as folks increased pedal pressure hoping not to stall. High normal fronts, allow the rider to force the shift.
Of course, things like gated shifting, and a bit of experience solves the issues, but for the target market of the era when it was introduced, high normal front made a world of sense.
High normal front derailers resulted in fewer dropped chains while mountain biking, in my experience. The spring of a low normal front derailer could impart too much velocity to the chain in some instances and knock the chain completely off the ring with the same result as above...you stall and crash. It's rather frustrating to have two such diametrically opposite problems. Sometimes you couldn't make the shift and others you'd overshift.
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05-05-14, 06:12 AM
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It's as if the idea of obtaining an iota of mechanical know-how fundamentally clashes with the self-image of the average person or something.
I refuse to pander to it: 'no, it's really quite simple; this is how to remember, by understanding.'
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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05-05-14, 08:00 AM
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No, because you only push a road STI in one direction, with the small paddle or the brake lever. The mountain Dual Control shifters were pushed down/pushed up, just the brake lever. There was a thumb lever option that was removable I believe.
05-05-14, 08:01 AM
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I'm continually blown away by people's reluctance to try understanding something so simple.
It's as if the idea of obtaining an iota of mechanical know-how fundamentally clashes with the self-image of the average person or something.
I refuse to pander to it: 'no, it's really quite simple; this is how to remember, by understanding.'
It's as if the idea of obtaining an iota of mechanical know-how fundamentally clashes with the self-image of the average person or something.
I refuse to pander to it: 'no, it's really quite simple; this is how to remember, by understanding.'
This is actually more ironic than I originally posted. She has a mechanical engineering degree. No kidding. Truth be told, she also has an MBA and is an accountant by trade.
It's not pandering when it's our wives. Rather, it's living in understanding and with a bit of compassion. She can't be bothered, and I don't need her to be different. I love her as she is...
05-05-14, 08:26 AM
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I'm continually blown away by people's reluctance to try understanding something so simple.
It's as if the idea of obtaining an iota of mechanical know-how fundamentally clashes with the self-image of the average person or something.
I refuse to pander to it: 'no, it's really quite simple; this is how to remember, by understanding.'
It's as if the idea of obtaining an iota of mechanical know-how fundamentally clashes with the self-image of the average person or something.
I refuse to pander to it: 'no, it's really quite simple; this is how to remember, by understanding.'
Regarding RR, I completely agree with cyccocommute. AND I was suspicious that it might even be a way to obsolete rear ders more quickly and increase Shimano revenue (because downshifting was left to spring action and more susceptible to friction issues that might make it seem like the der was wearing out).
05-08-14, 09:09 PM
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Kimmo,
This is actually more ironic than I originally posted. She has a mechanical engineering degree. No kidding. Truth be told, she also has an MBA and is an accountant by trade.
It's not pandering when it's our wives. Rather, it's living in understanding and with a bit of compassion. She can't be bothered, and I don't need her to be different. I love her as she is...
This is actually more ironic than I originally posted. She has a mechanical engineering degree. No kidding. Truth be told, she also has an MBA and is an accountant by trade.
It's not pandering when it's our wives. Rather, it's living in understanding and with a bit of compassion. She can't be bothered, and I don't need her to be different. I love her as she is...
Also, I'm not sure I'll ever enjoy such matrimonial harmony...
__________________
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
06-22-22, 01:20 PM
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Had rapid rise on my bike since 2000. They are brilliant. Have never had a moments trouble with them (xtr). Much better than fumbling with thumb numbing pushers on an unexpected hill! Superb idea, don't let the purists put you off!
06-22-22, 02:30 PM
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I liked rapid rise. Most of the sentiment against it seemed to be 'DIFFERENT. ME NO LIKE'.
It sure seemed to work as well as high-normal, and the only issue I recall when setting up and adjusting was convincing my brain to work on it backwards.
Back before Sram bought Sachs, I thought Rapid Rise with Sachs grip-style shifters was the best setup.
It sure seemed to work as well as high-normal, and the only issue I recall when setting up and adjusting was convincing my brain to work on it backwards.
Back before Sram bought Sachs, I thought Rapid Rise with Sachs grip-style shifters was the best setup.
06-23-22, 02:54 AM
#41
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I've got a mix of high and low-normal RDs across several bikes and don't have a preference for either in use. When I get tired I tend to revert to high-normal but that is learnt behaviour from a long time ago. Mechanically, it may be that if the parallelogram spring is not strong enough to shift to the next sprocket then forcing it might break other components. Going to a bigger sprocket would seem the more difficult move so low-normal may be more resilient in this sense. I'd like to experiment with getting rid of the parallelogram spring and converting to close-loop (Nivex) actuation as this appeals mechanically. Has anyone done this?
06-23-22, 02:57 AM
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Got old, no slow rise either.
06-23-22, 08:31 AM
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I have no idea what “thumb numbing pushers” are but I’m reasonably certain that Bandrada has figured out any issues after 8 years.
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Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
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Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
