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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

Old 04-08-21, 08:08 AM
  #5901  
cmh
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Some racing in Oregon, although many early races are being cancelled or postponed: OBRA: Schedule: 2021

And a bit more in Washington state: Calendar - Washington State Bicycle Association serving Washington, Oregon and North Idaho (wsbaracing.org)
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Old 04-08-21, 10:58 AM
  #5902  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
I should clarify. They are plenty of 32 hole rims still being manufactured and largely available via distributors. I would not expect you to be able to walk into any bike shop in the US, except for maybe PSImet's, and find a 32 hole rim. Of course, I'm not sure many shops keep any rims in stock these days, especially with the increasing number of pre-made wheels out there.
Little to no one keeps inventory of anything anymore really. tbh - if your shop is large enough to warrant having money in obsolete inventory sitting around then it's too large and busy to pull someone off of other work to have them build a wheel. If anyone has a 32 hole rim of any decent value sitting around it's because it was a mis-buy long ago or they forgot they had it.

Originally Posted by big john
There is definitely a shortage as of 2020. People told me they hadn't been able to source anything from Mavic all year. Also, I think Mavic was sold or reorganized. The places I usually get rims from all said no.
A friend told me about the shop where I found them. It's a big LBS and he has a separate building with just parts.

The bad thing about going in there is he is a BMC dealer and I saw a bike I wanted.
Amer sports owned Mavic (and ENVE). They way overpaid for ENVE back when they bought them (IMHO) and I would venture a guess that they are carrying WAY too much goodwill on the books. There's no way that company had $50M in assets. The aftermarket wheel market collapsed a few years back. Mainly people stopped buying wheel upgrades as the tech on bikes had changed so much they were pseudo forced into buying all new bikes instead...and all the big players in the bike OEM business just started private branding wheels and putting them on their bikes. All exhibited by ENVE now making frames (I'll come back to why that's a bad move in a bit).

I have had friends work at ENVE. One of them a handful of years back flat out said, "this is a sinking ship. I gotta get out of here." The cycling brands that Amer owned were pulling the company down. I am figuring they knew they had to dump one: Mavic or ENVE. Flash back to ENVE being way over valued at purchase and carrying a ton of goodwill on the books. Number of interested parties= 0 I would imagine. Mavic - walked away from what made them great a bunch of years back. I remember conversations at interbike where I was told flat out, "We are no longer going to support wheel builders and we are probably going to be dialing back our wheel offerings to focus on our softgoods." Look at how well that worked out. Mavic felt they had to diversify into other cycling gear segments order to survive...kind of like how ENVE is branching into frames now. Yes I agree it's a bit different and with their bar and stem work they are well suited to do it but big picture: you going to ENVE for a bike? That's like going to Thomson or Chris King for a bike (yes they make them). A nice product but largely just a novelty.

ANYWAY - yeah Amer dumped Mavic instead. It has been owned the whole time but there has been 2 pass offs in the last year or so and all of this during the pandemic. It is now owned by a French equity firm (usually the death of any cycling brand) that has promised to focus back on the core business of wheels so maybe they can make it work...but in the meantime Mavic USA has effectively disappeared leaving all its customers and dealers stranded. it is common in the industry forums to see that Mavic isn't responding to anything. For all I know they shut the US offices down but I have no confirmation of that.

As for supply - yeah everyone is out of everything. This should be nothing new at this point. One of my warehouses where I was able to pull some emergency product from flatly said, "I'll be out of everything in a few weeks until late July. I'm going fishing." Chris king is up to 110 days as of a few weeks back. Companies that were back down to 3-4 weeks on items are now back in the 8-12 week range. Just is what it is.
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Old 04-08-21, 11:01 AM
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We haven't officially permitted anything in Illinois yet but talking with Tour of America's Dairyland yesterday it appears as though the prognosis for racing in Wisconsin in June is looking like it's going to happen. July for the Intelligentsia series here in Illinois seems like it might be our first actual races outside of ABR sanctioned time trials.
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Old 04-08-21, 11:47 AM
  #5904  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Little to no one keeps inventory of anything anymore really. tbh - if your shop is large enough to warrant having money in obsolete inventory sitting around then it's too large and busy to pull someone off of other work to have them build a wheel. If anyone has a 32 hole rim of any decent value sitting around it's because it was a mis-buy long ago or they forgot they had it..
What would you recommend for someone like me who breaks wheels and likes to use hand laced rims on my existing hubs? Is DT Swiss still viable? I only have rim brake road bikes and don't use tubeless.
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Old 04-08-21, 11:56 AM
  #5905  
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I've seen Velocity, H-Plus Son, Hed, Kinlin and DT rims on various sites in 32 hole options.
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Old 04-08-21, 12:14 PM
  #5906  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Little to no one keeps inventory of anything anymore really. tbh - if your shop is large enough to warrant having money in obsolete inventory sitting around then it's too large and busy to pull someone off of other work to have them build a wheel. If anyone has a 32 hole rim of any decent value sitting around it's because it was a mis-buy long ago or they forgot they had it.


Amer sports owned Mavic (and ENVE). They way overpaid for ENVE back when they bought them (IMHO) and I would venture a guess that they are carrying WAY too much goodwill on the books. There's no way that company had $50M in assets. The aftermarket wheel market collapsed a few years back. Mainly people stopped buying wheel upgrades as the tech on bikes had changed so much they were pseudo forced into buying all new bikes instead...and all the big players in the bike OEM business just started private branding wheels and putting them on their bikes. All exhibited by ENVE now making frames (I'll come back to why that's a bad move in a bit).

I have had friends work at ENVE. One of them a handful of years back flat out said, "this is a sinking ship. I gotta get out of here." The cycling brands that Amer owned were pulling the company down. I am figuring they knew they had to dump one: Mavic or ENVE. Flash back to ENVE being way over valued at purchase and carrying a ton of goodwill on the books. Number of interested parties= 0 I would imagine. Mavic - walked away from what made them great a bunch of years back. I remember conversations at interbike where I was told flat out, "We are no longer going to support wheel builders and we are probably going to be dialing back our wheel offerings to focus on our softgoods." Look at how well that worked out. Mavic felt they had to diversify into other cycling gear segments order to survive...kind of like how ENVE is branching into frames now. Yes I agree it's a bit different and with their bar and stem work they are well suited to do it but big picture: you going to ENVE for a bike? That's like going to Thomson or Chris King for a bike (yes they make them). A nice product but largely just a novelty.

ANYWAY - yeah Amer dumped Mavic instead. It has been owned the whole time but there has been 2 pass offs in the last year or so and all of this during the pandemic. It is now owned by a French equity firm (usually the death of any cycling brand) that has promised to focus back on the core business of wheels so maybe they can make it work...but in the meantime Mavic USA has effectively disappeared leaving all its customers and dealers stranded. it is common in the industry forums to see that Mavic isn't responding to anything. For all I know they shut the US offices down but I have no confirmation of that.

As for supply - yeah everyone is out of everything. This should be nothing new at this point. One of my warehouses where I was able to pull some emergency product from flatly said, "I'll be out of everything in a few weeks until late July. I'm going fishing." Chris king is up to 110 days as of a few weeks back. Companies that were back down to 3-4 weeks on items are now back in the 8-12 week range. Just is what it is.

every time I read a psimet post I want to take up running
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Old 04-08-21, 12:33 PM
  #5907  
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We cancelled our team race weekend (Golden State Race Series). It is always the first weekend of May. Our county remains in the red tier, and the city would not approve our permit, so we had to pull the plug.

In the meantime, I bought a mountain bike and the local XC series has started. A lot of restrictions: limited fields, no day of reg., no podiums, masks on till 30 seconds before the gun. The thing I miss most of all is the taco trucks.
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Old 04-08-21, 01:18 PM
  #5908  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
every time I read a psimet post I want to take up running
I'm looking to get back into Ultimate (and maybe some disc golf with the kids). All you need is some grass and a disc and you're in business. Some cleats if you're feeling fancy or competitive.
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Old 04-08-21, 01:30 PM
  #5909  
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Originally Posted by big john
What would you recommend for someone like me who breaks wheels and likes to use hand laced rims on my existing hubs? Is DT Swiss still viable? I only have rim brake road bikes and don't use tubeless.
Get whatever you want but it's the finding it bit that's difficult. Like with Velocity we are on a perpetual 2 month wait. Like finding skewers...they're out there but as for people or distributors stocking them? nah.

I'm not saying someone doesn't have them I'm just saying that's like trying to find rotors or chains right now.

Don't let tubeless sway you. It is very difficult to find any rim that isn't "tubeless ready" but that doesn't mean you can't run tubed on it. I don't think I have sold a non-tubeless ready rim bed in like 3+ years. Just use tubeless tape as the rim tape. We often use Scotch 8898 tape. 1" width usually fits most road use rims.
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Old 04-08-21, 01:32 PM
  #5910  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
every time I read a psimet post I want to take up running


I guess I should be happy as that means someone is reading them....
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Old 04-08-21, 01:52 PM
  #5911  
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Originally Posted by caloso
We cancelled our team race weekend (Golden State Race Series). It is always the first weekend of May. Our county remains in the red tier, and the city would not approve our permit, so we had to pull the plug.

In the meantime, I bought a mountain bike and the local XC series has started. A lot of restrictions: limited fields, no day of reg., no podiums, masks on till 30 seconds before the gun. The thing I miss most of all is the taco trucks.
What are the courses like? How long are the races?
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Old 04-08-21, 01:57 PM
  #5912  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
As for supply - yeah everyone is out of everything. This should be nothing new at this point. One of my warehouses where I was able to pull some emergency product from flatly said, "I'll be out of everything in a few weeks until late July. I'm going fishing." Chris king is up to 110 days as of a few weeks back. Companies that were back down to 3-4 weeks on items are now back in the 8-12 week range. Just is what it is.
Is it a safe assumption then that a new Psimet wheelset with alloy rim, CX ray spokes, White Industry disc hubs = 8-12 weeks? And I should use that time to scour the internet for rotors, lock rings and valve stems?
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Old 04-08-21, 02:01 PM
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The XC races? Exposed to the wind, hard packed dirt, but with tons of babyheads. It's on a state off-road vehicle park so these are motorcycle trails, I guess. For sport it's 3 laps of a 2.78 mile loop. https://www.strava.com/activities/5088380853
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Old 04-08-21, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la
Is it a safe assumption then that a new Psimet wheelset with alloy rim, CX ray spokes, White Industry disc hubs = 8-12 weeks? And I should use that time to scour the internet for rotors, lock rings and valve stems?
Really depends on the options. White has been in the 3-5 week range if they're black and in common drillings with a HG driver. Some drillings on some models have been out 10 weeks though... Certain rims we have in house and on hand. Others - not so much. Valve stems - depending on the depth - we have. Lock rings...assuming for the rotor as you're getting centerlock? if so they come with the Shimano rotors if you get one. Yes scour the internet. I have sold the last ones I had in my personal reserve and all Shimano dates are late in the year and as I am not preordering I am assuming I will miss those as well. If you're getting SRAM ones then you need to buy lockrings and I haven't seen any of those in stock ever...like even back to the before times. Some shops have them stockpiled at the expense of places like mine.
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Old 04-08-21, 02:22 PM
  #5915  
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I know this is Pro Cycling subforum content, but, Brandoooooooon!!!! Solid ride by lux alum. Doge.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcn...rprise-attack/

please don't report me to the moderators
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Old 04-08-21, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Flatballer
I'm looking to get back into Ultimate (and maybe some disc golf with the kids). All you need is some grass and a disc and you're in business. Some cleats if you're feeling fancy or competitive.

Things probably changed some over the last 30 years, but frisbees are probably a bit cheaper than bicycles.
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Old 04-08-21, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
The XC races? Exposed to the wind, hard packed dirt, but with tons of babyheads. It's on a state off-road vehicle park so these are motorcycle trails, I guess. For sport it's 3 laps of a 2.78 mile loop. https://www.strava.com/activities/5088380853
Didn't you get a Stumpjumper ?
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Old 04-08-21, 03:32 PM
  #5918  
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I was going to, then when Covid hit, I forgot about it for awhile. Decided I wanted a hardtail, so I got a Canyon Exceed. I love it.
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Old 04-08-21, 05:47 PM
  #5919  
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Originally Posted by caloso
I was going to, then when Covid hit, I forgot about it for awhile. Decided I wanted a hardtail, so I got a Canyon Exceed. I love it.
Cool! Does your son have a mountain bike, too?
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Old 04-08-21, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
Things probably changed some over the last 30 years, but frisbees are probably a bit cheaper than bicycles.
Indeed they are. You can get a lot of discs for $10,000.
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Old 04-09-21, 04:08 AM
  #5921  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001


I guess I should be happy as that means someone is reading them....

We talked to our son about a similar dynamic last night. He's a musician and audio engineer/producer. He graduated school a year ago, and works for a multi grammy award winner. He has, what's been stuck due to the pandemic, a very entry level job. And he's finding his boss can be a bit temperamental. His friends are wont to say, oh do this producing (engineering, mixing) thing for me. This is what you do, it'll be fun. People are people, and jobs involve people. He's finding solace in new hobbies, like long long walks, yoga, and learning how to make cheese, which he's growing rather passionate about. I told him about making my meditative pursuit a job 15 or so years ago, and how all those various dynamics unfolded in my life, and how bike racing became a more central passion for me.

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Old 04-09-21, 11:50 AM
  #5922  
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Originally Posted by big john
Cool! Does your son have a mountain bike, too?
Yes, we got him a hardtail for his birthday two years ago when he decided he was done with soccer. I thought he might want to do HS mtb, but he decided he wanted to run track. He's doing the 200 and 400 primarily, which is a special kind of suffering for sure.
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Old 04-09-21, 02:28 PM
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I like problem solvers. I loathe yes-men who throw crap at the wall and act like a hero because they do so.

Don't come to me at 4pm on a Friday with no plan, no mitigation, a schedule that is the first we've seen with due dates from prehistoric time, no plan of how to support resources, and ask people to work the weekend..........all while we're borrowed to help your department cleanup its mess.

Zero f's given telling you "no". If the building is on fire, sure, 4pm on a Friday. If it's about what this was about, rude AF. Little dweeb.

If you had come to me on Monday, Tuesday, or even Wednesday before mid-day with the request AND a plan of how you plan to mitigate your resource/schedule situation with a guarantee of support..........I'd say yes. Or, if it's enough ahead with a plan......maybe folks can spread some time from Mon to Fri. A little early, a touch over 5, it adds up.

I don't write blank checks as reward for your poor planning.

Good day sir!
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Old 04-09-21, 11:15 PM
  #5924  
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Originally Posted by TMonk
I know this is Pro Cycling subforum content, but, Brandoooooooon!!!! Solid ride by lux alum. Doge.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcn...rprise-attack/

please don't report me to the moderators
I've commented in the proper forum. I also posted junior was riding with him a bit this winter. Junior's been the investment consultant to the WT pros. That actually might become something. Brandon has a clever setup financially now and not my son's doing, but that is one of the things they talk about. And B has become quite the barista. Also look at another then junior Mateo Jorgenson (not LUX, not in this race). Of course LUX has some other WT alum too.

I think tomorrow will be real tough. I'm a realist about that. But to be where he is now is a great achievement.
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Old 04-13-21, 02:19 PM
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There are currently like 6000 people watching some dude riding rollers on ******, as part of r/talentshow live shows. Like, he's just riding normal rollers. I don't think he's a pro or anything. His form is fine. I don't get it. Everyone is like "wow" and having their minds blown. The internet is weird.

edit: Apparently that is a place that shall not be named... for reasons I can't begin to fathom.

Here it is, if it isn't gone

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