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Ear protection when pumping tires

Old 07-06-22, 08:23 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by BCDrums
Has no one else ever wondered if Larry is a performance artist? ... are you shifting me?
Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
If youre an engineer you should know that you can pump tires higher than the recommended pressure range, its not going to fail because you put an extra 20 psi in it. Heck you could probably run almost double. Whats gonna happen, the rim fails? 23s are perfectly safe, ive never had a shop tell me im too heavy to ride 23s.
See what I mean?
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Old 07-06-22, 08:27 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Dumb comparison.
That was what I thought when you made it.

The question isn’t about materials, its about factors of safety.

You think a manufacturer isn’t going to build in some extra safety on top of its “max” recommendation?
Of course. However, assuming you know what that factor is is a game for fools. Plus, it's not just the possibility of the rim blowing apart. They're also telling you that you can trust the hook to hold a bead up to that pressure. They're also telling you NOT to trust the hook to hold a bead above that pressure.
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Old 07-06-22, 08:34 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
kinda wanna work at a bike shop 1 day a week just to get better at fixing bikes, would have to be saturday or sunday.
We would prefer you didn't!

Don't need to pump tires that hard and a tire shouldn't blow at that pressure unless not seated right or you have tire or rim issues which you might actually have looking at previous posts.

A trick to those actually needing help with pumping tires take it slow, check the tire and make sure it is seating properly before going up to higher pressures. Yeah I might take an extra minute to pump tire but I don't blow tires these days. Also make sure you are using the correct tubes for tire size and giving them a touch of air before inserting them in the tire.
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Old 07-06-22, 08:35 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Nonsense. You think a rim’s printed “maximum pressure” is the absolute top end, and a few pounds over and “she’ll blow?” You guys ever hear of proof testing?

You guys would need a change of underwear when my steam locomotive goes over it’s MAWP of 190.
Good engineers find the actual maximum pressure before explosion (such as by proof testing, other methods used in other disciplines such as power electronics) or by re-using other well-proven limits if they apply, then warn the customer to stay within a safe limit, usually ⅓ to ¼ the maximum limit. It allows emergencies to be managed and for mishaps to not be harmful to the maximum degree. As well, the combination of rim/tire/spoking/hub is a system, not just a pile of individual parts, and it gives safe behavior because its used within the limits of the interaction bstween the system elements, not only the failure of one part. Why do we stress-relieve spokes? Why do we roll the just-mounted wheel to help the bead/inner tube to interface correctly?
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Old 07-06-22, 08:35 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by smd4
You think a manufacturer isn’t going to build in some extra safety on top of its “max” recommendation?
Sure, of course they do. They need to account for riders who are much heavier than average, and carry lots of groceries on their bikes, and ride carelessly. Oh, wait -- Larry does all of those things, AND he overinflates his tires. Gee, I wonder why he's having problems?
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Old 07-06-22, 08:35 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
This is as close to a confession as we are likely to see.
Wut
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Old 07-06-22, 08:59 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
How did I miss this thread?

LarrySellerz , a while back many of us told you that running a psi that is 50% over the recommended max is foolish. It's the reason why you're blowing tires.

You don't need ear protection; you just need some common sense.
The blowing tires are almost certainly installation errors or damaged tires. I threw away two suspect offending tires. Tires dont just pop because you put too much air into them, its almost always a seating issue (am I right in this??)
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Old 07-06-22, 09:08 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
And it's not just about catastrophic failure, it's about accelerated wear, for example wearing through the tread too fast, exposing the cords, and then having the carcass fail.
This is interesting, I know an expert wheelbuilder and i'll go talk to him about this question. Hadn't thought about it from this angle. Also guys im not talking about running tires at 50% over the rating (though I think you probably could get away with it) im talking about putting an extra 20-25 psi in there. For what its worth a national champ told me not to worry about other people commenting on my tire pressure, im heavy enough to be a big outlier. Especially if you factor in needing to carry stuff, id rather stay on the safe side and run them pretty hard.
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Old 07-06-22, 09:12 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Especially if you factor in needing to carry stuff, id rather stay on the safe side and run them pretty hard.
That's not the safe side.
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Old 07-06-22, 09:25 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
That's not the safe side.
Just wait till he figures out the 'T' in PV = nRT does on a hot day, or a descent with a lot of braking.
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Old 07-06-22, 09:29 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
This is interesting, I know an expert wheelbuilder and i'll go talk to him about this question. Hadn't thought about it from this angle. Also guys im not talking about running tires at 50% over the rating (though I think you probably could get away with it) im talking about putting an extra 20-25 psi in there. For what its worth a national champ told me not to worry about other people commenting on my tire pressure, im heavy enough to be a big outlier. Especially if you factor in needing to carry stuff, id rather stay on the safe side and run them pretty hard.
You said the tires are loaded to 300#.
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Old 07-06-22, 09:51 PM
  #162  
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Tires have a function you might not have considered: cushioning the rims from road shocks. If you have tires which are too narrow they are also not tall enough, and they might allow the rims to have hard impacts with the road surface especially if it is not perfect. You need enough height AND pressure to inlulate the rim from road bump damage (one aspect of the safe side), not so muchpressure that other new problems are initiated in the tire/bead/rim, and not so much pressure that old flaws and damage sites in parts are over stressed and a hard failure is accelerated. The first "safe side " is about tires not too soft. The other two "safe sides" are about tires not too hard. You need to understand and adhere to both conditions to get comfortable, lengthy service from your wheels including your tires.

The wheelbuilder I was talking about is Peter White, who publishes his opinions and policies on his website, from which he also sells retail and wholesale. I'm not saying to go get new wheels built, but there are a lot of experts out there, and this is one I would recommend reading.

Another one is Jobst Brandt, and another one is Sheldon Brown, both now deceased. Most likely not everything they say agrees three ways, but it's worth a look.

It's absolutely a fact that wider rims are stronger than narrower ones. If you are road racing, you probably should get a set of wheels built with tubulars, but get someone like Peter to design them for your size and weight and intended usage. If you are also going to commute with your common load of gear you carry, have a second set of wheels which work with a more durable wheel. Seriously, reallty good wheels these days have nearly zero problems with bead separations and blowouts. They really can be nearly trouble free these days.

Tubulars eliminate some of the tire bead problems that clinchers can have, but the need to be glued well to the rim. But the really can handle big pressures at 21 mm widths.
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Old 07-06-22, 10:00 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Tires dont just pop because you put too much air into them, its almost always a seating issue (am I right in this??)
It's really hard to give a simple answer because it depends on all parts of the system. Inner tubes and bead hooks both increase the safety margin against blow-offs, although of course this can be represented in a tire's specifications. On any random selection of properly-built rim and tire, it's likely that it will tolerate pressures far above rating without blowing off, but this doesn't mean that you should do so: tire blow-off is an extremely dangerous failure mode, so a margin of safety is built into the typical case to account for variances in rim and tire design and manufacture, and in pressure gauge accuracy, all of which can be all over the place. In other words, a major reason that blow-offs from over-pressure aren't common is that a large majority of cyclists respect the manufacturer maximum pressure specifications.

In the current market, I'd argue that it's incredibly dangerous to be telling people that it's probably fine to go 50% percent above max ratings, because many current products (especially in the tubeless) use significantly narrower margins than that for design certification and/or manufacturing test. I know multiple riders, on different types of tires from different manufacturers, who experienced blow-offs while running tires at just barely above their nominal maximum PSI. One of them took significant injuries from the crash and was off the bike for a while as a result.

Last edited by HTupolev; 07-06-22 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 07-06-22, 10:00 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Just wait till he figures out the 'T' in PV = nRT does on a hot day, or a descent with a lot of braking.
Now that is something Larry is not gonna get in a bike shop, except perhaps as a way of explaining his latest blow off.
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Old 07-06-22, 10:05 PM
  #165  
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Just No!
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Old 07-06-22, 10:05 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Just wait till he figures out the 'T' in PV = nRT does on a hot day, or a descent with a lot of braking.
I doubt air in a tire is an ideal gas
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Old 07-06-22, 10:25 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
I doubt air in a tire is an ideal gas
Unless you're always filling your tires with pure CO2 instead of air, the Ideal Gas Law is going to approximate the scenario we're talking about quite closely. And even for pure CO2 it won't be wildly off.

Last edited by HTupolev; 07-06-22 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 07-06-22, 10:29 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
I doubt air in a tire is an ideal gas
Unless you are very close to the temperature at which these gases liquidize or solidify, you can safely assume ideal gas behavior.
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Old 07-06-22, 10:36 PM
  #169  
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So it seems you have two things you're doing wrong, first is that you're not making sure as you inflate that the tire is properly seated. There's a bead seat mark, usually a thin strip of rubber, around the whole tire that's designed to tell you if the tire is equal all the way around. Check it at 30, 60, and 90psi, doing so will let you see that the tire isn't slipping off.
Your next issue is that you're over-inflating the tires and they don't like it. Most tires list a max inflation of 120psi and there's really no good reason to go over that. Going higher just increases the risk of a blow off.

Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
I pinchflatted 25s because they were underinflated for the type of riding I was doing (hauling groceries.) I needed 130+ in them, and frankly in terms of historical tire pressures this isn't even abnormally high. Back in the day much lighter people went to higher pressures. Thin tires for heavy riders are perfectly fine as long as they are inflated properly
No, your tires weren't underinflated, and you don't need 130+ psi in them. In the past they didn't run higher unless they were tubulars. Road tubulars would be run as high as 130-135psi, 160psi was for track only, and only tubulars were/are capable of running that high. As two others have rightly mentioned, there's every possibility you're attempting to exceed the limit of the rim. Having the rim blow apart from over inflation will sound like a literal cannon going off near you, and if you're riding will create issues. Anything from the now flattened sidewalls slamming into the stays to the rim being split in half along the spoke holes and coming apart catastrophically, both are impressive to see.

Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
Most folks are fine with 25mm. Most of my bikes are on 25mm. The problem is that Larry is pushing 300lb.s. That is the crux of the issue. What works for a 160lb TdF rider, is not going to work for a 300lb rider. At that weight he should be riding 32mm. It's not a conspiracy by Big Gravel. It's just fundamental physics. Large rider needs wide tires. You don't put 185/60/14 tires on a F150 truck, do you?
BS, I toss on my shoes, phone, saddle bag, keys, helmet, and water bottles and the weight of the rider and bike well exceeds 300#. My road bike doesn't take wider than 23c and it has never been an issue. Currently running 25c on my cross bike for riding with the kids. I haven't had a flat yet this year and haven't had a pinch flat in several years. 32c has its place, and while I would consider it appropriate for a grocery getter or general use bike it isn't required at his weight.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe
As a representative of Big Gravel, I just want to emphasize one point -- whenever someone buys a 23mm or 25mm tire, a kitten dies. Do the right thing, buy wide tires.
At least its not puppies.

Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
shouldn't matter if its properly inflated, evidently there wasn't enough pressure because I managed to get a pinch flat. Thats like saying "you shouldn't have hopped the curb if you didn't want a pinch flat" like youre kind of right but its ignoring the root cause,
Yeah, if you're getting that many pinch flats, learn to ride. Until you learn to hop the curb right, expect pinch flats. Learn to dodge potholes, cracks, grates and any other obstacles or properly hop them, or expect pinch flats; that's just how it works. Pressure won't matter, at too high a pressure, hitting edges will just force the tire to unseat and blow and potentially dent your rim. At the right pressure, you'll just pinch and potentially dent the rim. Technique in your case matters more than pressure. I'm probably every bit your size, I run my 23c at 110r/100f, my 25c at 100r/95f on the road. At the track I run my 25c at 120r/110f unless I'm at Kissena when I stick with road pressures. Pinch flats and blow outs aren't an issue, but you have to watch how you ride.

Originally Posted by smd4
Why do you think a tire rated for 145 psi would “let go” at 140? You guys sure seem like a nervous bunch!
Show me a tire rated to 145psi that isn't a tubular. And at 140psi I'd be more worried about the rim letting go.
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Old 07-06-22, 10:51 PM
  #170  
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[QUOTE=LarrySellerz;22565478]Do any of you have like having hearing protection the pumping a tire?

Larry, I dig you buddy, but your intro on this one? The smoker you get, the player you are?
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Old 07-06-22, 11:29 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Especially if you factor in needing to carry stuff, id rather stay on the safe side and run them pretty hard.
The only way you're gonna be safe in your situation is to ride slow. Avoid riding fast. Because under the circumstances, you don't have a lot of margin for error or for the tire to keep the rims from bottoming out and pinch flatting. You can even dent your rims or worse, the failing wheel makes you fall into a ditch.

Now, if you wish to lay down all your power on the pedals as often as you want, then get something wider

Only tire crews deservedly need ear protection or even possibly bomb-proof armor.

(the guy over pumping the truck tire is a dummy, not a real person, nobody died nor got hurt in this video). 2nd video tells the lethality of tire PSI.


Last edited by koala logs; 07-06-22 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 07-06-22, 11:35 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth



Yeah, if you're getting that many pinch flats, learn to ride.
I'm a courier by trade, im used to riding 30-40 hours a week year round. I know how to ride a bike lol
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Old 07-07-22, 12:07 AM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
idk probably recommend them thicc slicks to try and make them laugh
it always baffled me that the “Thick Slick” tire is available in 23mm width.
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Old 07-07-22, 12:10 AM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
The smoker you get, the player you are?
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Old 07-07-22, 12:23 AM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Yes I just rode off the front of the group ride for like 7 miles today (it was the casual wednesday pace) and I couldn't have done that if i wasn't on narrow tires. I have a 23 up front and a 25 in the back. IDK why people insist that wide tires are just as fast, or even worse, that fat people can't ride on narrow tires. You just gotta pump them super hard..
Originally Posted by DonkeyShow
Nice! Did you complete the ride or do like 20% of it?
Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
Yes I finished it, I nearly won
You almost won a ride with a casual pace? Did you attack during the warmup, or out sprint everybody during the cool down?
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