Chris0516

Mods can move this to another forum. I couldn't find the proper forum.

Cyclist killed during Wisc. Ironman competition

Hondo Gravel

they know there is an event. Divert the traffic. The Central and South Texans even know that. Very preventable tragedy.

texaspandj

"The central and south Texans even know that".

Explain please

genec

They did... apparently she crossed over into the vehicle zone.

bakerjw

Kind of like when you are on a group ride where people are maintaining 2 abreast and someone decides to pass and crosses the yellow line and into potential oncoming traffic.

The race route was on US23 for about 5 miles heading North out of Delaware State Park. It is a 4 lane divided highway with a frontage road for a stretch. The shoulder looks decent. I wonder if they marked off one lane or planned for everyone to ride on the shoulder.

20/20 hindsight but that is a darned busy looking road.

Moe Zhoost

It did sound like they blocked off the right lane for the event. Perhaps Ms. Oswald was passing another group and was over-focused on that. Being "in the zone" usually results in the exclusion of all other "distractions", sometimes at one's peril. I imagine that there was some sort of competitor's briefing before the race to go over the route and how it was controlled. I also imagine that folks are thinking about the race and only half listen. Still, a semi makes a lot of noise so it's surprising that Ms. Oswald would not be warned. Race rules prohibited any electronic devices, so her ears were not impaired.

Man, I hate to hear about this sort of thing. Condolences to her family.

Paul Barnard

Unless the rider swerved directly into the path of the truck, the truck driver should have been able to see her and slow in time. Was there a blind bend or other obstruction that may have kept the driver from seeing her?

adablduya

crappy situation. sorry to say, from what i read, this was entirely on the cyclist. first off, in IM events, it is a clearly defined rule that crossing the center line of a roadway is an immediate DQ (rule 5.01.D). she should have known that, never mind the inherent danger involved. second, being "in the zone", while a very real and obviously potentially dangerous situation, would not be an excuse for a disregard for that rule and the prohibition of crossing a double yellow, and poor decision making jeopardizing hers (and potentially, others') safety. rules on passing in IM events are very clear.

adablduya

so, you're putting this on the driver of the oncoming vehicle ? nice try. unless it was a straight road, and she "swerved" into the oncoming lane from 1/2 mile away, then yeah, there might have been an opportunity to mitigate/avoid the incident.

Paul Barnard

Your question caused me to go back and read the link again. I was under the mistaken impression she was hit from behind. Belay my comments!

bakerjw

I've no horse in the game, I am just trying to understand the layout a bit better. She was hit in the left hand lane. In looking at the stretch of road on Google maps, the highway is 4 lanes with a median in the center so she crossed a white line and was hit from behind.

This is the stretch of the road from the ironman map of the course. From Delaware State Park up to where route 98 veers off.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Co...605492,13.25z/

My assumption would be that they blocked off the rightmost lane of the 2 lanes heading North.

Paul Barnard

That's the way I read it the first time. If that's the case she was hit from behind. If that's the case, I stand by my earlier comment.

livedarklions

"Swerved directly" is a relative term. Stopping distance on a semi increases drastically at high speed. There's no telling what he "should" have been able to do without a lot more detail.

Paul Barnard

The few pics I saw seemed to show a low speed road with lots of markings that should have suggested low speed. Maybe my memory isn't serving me well, and it was a 70 MPH road. And since we are nitpicking, the truck didn't need to stop. It needed to slow to below the riders pace.

I have zero tolerance for the "hard to see" and "didn't see them" excuse. It doesn't fly with me, and that is what I should have communicated here.

gregf83 

Apparently there were reports from witnesses that she hit a patch of sand lost control and over corrected into the unsafe zone. Probably best to wait for the official investigation.

Paul Barnard

Thanks for that info.

livedarklions

I was under the understanding that it was a 55 mph road, and I don't consider that low speed. I don't know whether there were signs indicating slow down for the closed lane. This is not a nitpick. The braking distance at 55 mph for a semi is 170 feet and takes about 4 1/2 seconds, and there's a whole hell of a lot of difference between 55 mph and the likely speed she was pedaling at. If she entered the lane say 25 feet in front of him, there's not much he can do without swerving into the closed lane full of bicyclists or driving off the road. That 25 feet of distance is going to close very fast even with the brakes on a half second after he sees her (and that reaction time might be unrealistic).

I have no tolerance for zero tolerance arguments, they always end up leading to absurd conclusions in many individual cases. In this case, she very well likely could have been seen making the move, but it may have been far too late for the semi driver to take any effective action.

I have no idea if the truck driver is at fault here, but neither do you based on the incomplete facts as we have them.

And yes, I am deliberately being ironic when n I say I have no tolerance for zero tolerance arguments. I've just seen too many stupid ones for me not to be sarcastic when I see one. My favorite one was a proposal for a zero tolerance rule for touching another person in a middle school. Under that logic, if someone is behind another person going up the stairs and the person in front starts falling backwards, the rule would require that the person behind just step out of the way of the fall instead of catching the faller. Your rule seems to be if the driver could possibly see the cyclist, the driver is at fault even if the driver could not have taken effective evasive action. It's a strict liability rule (in the technical sense) for driving, in other words, the driver doesn't actually have to be proven to have done anything wrong in order to be held liable. If that's what you're arguing for, fine, but admit it.

rumrunn6

bike race on a highway?

FiftySix

Both the cyclist and truck were going northbound according to this article.

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-new...struck-killed/



Quotes below from - https://itstillruns.com/history-semi...s-5387749.html


"Inertia is a prime factor in the difference in braking distance between a car and a heavy truck. A fully loaded semi truck has the gross vehicle weight, depending on its cargo, of up to 80,000 pounds. (Compare this to an average car's weight of 4,000 pounds.) At a speed of 55 m.p.h., a semi truck's stopping distance is 100 yards--the length of a football field. But that doesn't take into account reaction time and or the time for the brakes to effectively engage. All told, from when a dangerous situation is spotted until the truck is completely stopped, a truck needs about a tenth of a mile* to stop when fully loaded!"


"The compressed-air brake system of a semi truck is very different than that of an auto. Air brakes have a lag time after the driver steps on the pedal. A second of travel time will occur before the boost of the air brakes activates the friction parts of the braking system."


Let's estimate that a loaded semi-tractor trailer traveling at 25 mph can stop at a best number of 121 feet. A cyclist pops out in front of a fully loaded semi-tractor trailer at 100 feet away. The tractor trailer hits the brakes and still runs over the cyclist. A very unfortunate outcome.


*528 feet at 55 mph

Another source showing similar distances at 65 mph.
https://www.udot.utah.gov/trucksmart...ing-distances/

Moe Zhoost

This makes more sense than her intentionally moving over into the vehicle lane; however I wouldn't think that a patch of sand would affect a rider that much on this route. Deep sand, yes. Sand on a tight curve, probably. Going straight over it, doubtful. Perhaps she saw it and and initiated an avoidance maneuver that went awry. Shouldn't the race organizers do a pre-race ride of the route to look for such issues?

livedarklions

I've hit a patch of sand on the pavement at high speed and had the bike fly right out from underneath me. A light layer of fine dry sand on dry pavement is a hell of a lubricant if you have any lateral motion.

MikeyMK

If we're playing the speculation game, i'll throw in my idea.

She lost control somehow, such as colliding with something or someone, in the cycling lane. She ended up falling into the motor lane as a result of being out of control. She's down, and therefore stationary almost immediately. There's a semi in the motor lane. It's running under a speed restriction but it's unable to avoid hitting a stationary object right in front of it (or even into the side of it, so only the trailer may have been involved).

Remember, speculation. Feel free to argue, though.

I do also have an opinion - What an utterly stupid course. Who organised it? Who gave them permission? And who'd ride it..? Perhaps next time they'll give it a little more thought.

indyfabz

Those of who ride in certain parts of Southern NJ know that all too well. If someone doesn't they often find out the hard way.

I was on a charity ride one time and some relatively young, clearly inexperienced kid hit a couple of patches of sand frantically trying to keep up with the group. I was behind him and told him to stay out of the sand. Maybe 10 seconds later he went into the sand again, lost control, ended up careening to the left and taking out another rider who got some nasty road rash.