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Anybody use a Sturmey Archer S2C "Kickback" Hub?

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Anybody use a Sturmey Archer S2C "Kickback" Hub?

Old 06-28-21, 12:30 PM
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Axeman88
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Anybody use a Sturmey Archer S2C "Kickback" Hub?

I like simplicity, and I like coasting. Chicago is pretty flat. I find that my 1972 Schwinn Speedster, with a Bendix single speed coaster brake is just about my perfect city bike, except for that one hill on my way to work, and occasionally when the wind blows.

I am working on building up a new rear wheel with a Bendix Yellow Band that I have in my collection. The Bendix Yellow Band, aka Bendix "Automatic", aka "Kickback Hub" is something that older riders might remember if they rode bikes in the USA during the 60s. Without cables, the hub would shift alternately between Low and 1:1 every time that you reversed the crank rotation. It was also equipped with a coaster brake. There was also a Triple Red Band version, with internal discs for braking, and a Blue Band version, that alternated between 1:1 and High gear on "kickback" action.

The drawback with these Bendix Hubs, besides being essentially collectors items with no supply of spare parts, is that the sprocket is integrated into the assembly with no ability to change ratios.

The Sturmey-Archer S2 ( no internal brake) and the S2C (with coaster brake), appear to be the modern equivalents of the Bendix Automatic hubs. From the pictures, they appear to accept the standard S-A / Shimano, 3 lobe sprockets. This would let me fine tune my ratios, to create my ultimate no hassle flatland utility bicycle. Has anybody got any experience or insight on these Sturmey Archer "KickShift" hubs? How well they work, how is the braking, sprocket pattern, reliability, spares availability, etc? I'd appreciate hearing anything members have to say. Sorry I can't post links to the info, cause I'm too new, but a google search of Sturmey Archer S2C will get you there.
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Old 07-25-21, 08:08 PM
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I want to know too, literally about to ask the same question. There's a couple of YouTube videos. Hard to tell how far you have to backpedal to shift or engage the brakes though. A wheel build gets expensive if you don't already have all the tools or pay someone just to test out a new hub.
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Old 07-25-21, 08:53 PM
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Yes, built up a 71 Schwinn Sports Tourer with one. Lots of fun, my favorite bike when I don’t want to gear up and just ride somewhere, shifting becomes 2nd nature quite quickly, and I love the coaster brake.
Tim




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Old 07-25-21, 09:39 PM
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Has anybody got any experience or insight on these Sturmey Archer "KickShift" hubs?


Sturmey started building them in 1966 (and famously started three-speed hub production in 1903). Yes, they accept Sturmey cogs 13T thru 24T.

Sturmey S2C gears input : output - 1:1, 1:1.38

Last edited by tcs; 08-02-21 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 07-26-21, 09:42 AM
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I built a wheel with one for a Fairdale Coaster a few years ago. The difference between the two gears is huge, so you're either in a super-spinny "climbing" gear or a big ol' "cruising" gear, and there's nothing in between. Every time you hit the brake you shift the gear, so you have to remember to double-tap the brake in order to stay in the same gear when you slow down. Starting up from a dead stop, you'll often find that you're in the big gear, requiring you to tap the brake just as you're trying to accelerate.

Honestly, I thought it was a huge PITA. I sold the bike on Craigslist and lied to the guy who bought it about how great it was. I may burn in hell for that, but it was worth it to be rid of the thing.
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Old 07-26-21, 10:47 AM
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Its only 2 gears, so not a big deal to figure out, and anticipate what gear you want, and your not actually engaging the brake to shift between the two. The only challenge is to figure out what size cog to put on the hub. I got it right for my use on the first try, roughly 17mph on the flats, 10 mph on the climbs, and coasting on the descents.
Overall pretty simple, had one on my Schwinn Racer growing up, lots of kids had them, guess we all figured it out.
Tim
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Old 07-26-21, 11:18 AM
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I have the non-brake Sturmey S2 hub on one of my bikes and like it very much after 10+ years. It's perfect for a simple clean set up. I have my ratio set up as normal-high though some may like a normal-low setup better. Shimano IGH cogs will fit it so you have a lot of flexibility. The only three issues I've had with it are 1) your leg muscles need to develop some memory about how far to kick back to shift. This comes pretty quickly after about 500 miles. 2) It takes a bit of practice to be in the right gear when you stop (say at a red light). Since it's a bit challenging to start up in my high gear, I like to be in low when I stop. Experience is needed. 3) Early on, I had an issue where I lost a gear (I think low). When I opened up the hub, it was apparent that a lock nut had loosened up. I bit of thread lock did the trick to fix and the problem never re-occurred.
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Old 07-29-21, 01:29 PM
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Thanks for the responses folks!

I have my spare wheel for the Schwinn Speedster built up with the Bendix Yellow Band hub, which although I tore it down and built it back up with very light grease, has quite a bit of internal resistance when being driven, although not when freewheeling. I attribute this to the drag of the returder spring. (funny the forum auto-nanny won't let me spell it correctly) I read in another thread that they will free up with break-in, so perhaps this hub was never used much, or perhaps not at all, (it was an Ebay buy, of unknown provenance, but looks quite perfect) and isn't broken in. I also have a Bendix Red Band, which clearly has some miles on it, and that hub seems quite a bit freer.

I'll be on the lookout for an S2C. I can think of a few bikes that would benefit from a second ratio, but where I don't want additional complexity of cables. A 20" Royce Union folding bike comes to mind.
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Old 07-29-21, 01:43 PM
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Interesting! They look to be a copies of the Bendixes with no changes, including the non-interchangeable sprockets. It doesn't say on any of the ads, and isn't clear from any of the pictures what the tooth counts are. I think I read that the Yellow Stripe automatic hubs came only with 18 tooth sprockets and that there were 18 and 20 tooth versions of the Blue stripe hubs, and they were not interchangeable between Yellow and Blue. Would you know if these new "Eagle" hubs are the same? I wonder if the parts are interchangeable with the Bendixes, and if International Cycle Gears is offering spares, like brake shoes, for individual sale?
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Old 08-02-21, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs
Anyway, the whole point of the Eagle effort was to make interchangeable hubs & parts available again.
The Bendix automatics did not have interchangeable sprockets. The Yellow Band sprocket was part of the high speed drive screw, and the Blue Band's was part of the High speed drive screw.

Are you saying that the Eagle hubs DO have interchangeable sprockets? It doesn't look that way from the pictures. That would be a big advantage and would put the Eagle hubs on an equal footing with the Sturmey Archer S2C.
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Old 08-02-21, 07:09 PM
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You asked: 'I wonder if the parts are interchangeable with the Bendixes...'

I answered: 'the whole point of the Eagle effort was to make interchangeable hubs & parts available again'.

Then you start talking about interchangeable sprockets.

At this point any way I try to help you and any explanation I give will probably be misconstrued. Out.
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Old 08-03-21, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs
You asked: 'I wonder if the parts are interchangeable with the Bendixes...'

I answered: 'the whole point of the Eagle effort was to make interchangeable hubs & parts available again'.

Then you start talking about interchangeable sprockets.

At this point any way I try to help you and any explanation I give will probably be misconstrued. Out.
I read what I said in my first post as,

"The drawback with these Bendix Hubs, besides being essentially collectors items with no supply of spare parts, is that the sprocket is integrated into the assembly with no ability to change ratios.

Then in my later post as:

" I read that the Yellow Stripe automatic hubs came only with 18 tooth sprockets and that there were 18 and 20 tooth versions of the Blue stripe hubs, and they were not interchangeable between Yellow and Blue. Would you know if these new "Eagle" hubs are the same? "

I'd say I can't seem to get OFF that sprocket talk.

So what is it about the Eagle hubs that is "interchangeable"? Can we buy individual components, like brake shoes, or even the very small but pricey reterder spring as spares? It doesn't do me much good to buy a $110 Eagle so I can steal the brake shoes to replace worn out shoes from a $80 Bendix, although I imagine it would appeal to a collector who feels the need to have everything "correct".

Last edited by Axeman88; 08-03-21 at 02:00 PM.
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