CyclesMakaron

A E6717 - 1983, I have it in "my registry" as Aero
G E632 - 1981, also in the registry, Professional (matt black)
4 - Professional 1980, I have something similar in my registry - if your copy has "mixed" lugs (short in front, long in back) this could be it; if "unmixed" - it's a novelty for me
G4 858 - Professional 1980, I haven't seen this one yet

jet sanchEz

My wife's Hitachi Merckx, possibly a former team frame as it came with a Mavic group and a bunch of Mavic decals on it and has a number hanger plate.

I found it in Belgium.

B
5267

CyclesMakaron

Frame built ~May/June 1989.
During the 1989 season Team Hitachi used Reynolds 653 frames (mostly with flat fork crowns).
Definitely check the card attached to the steering tube

jet sanchEz

Yes, it Is made of Reynolds 653, I forgot to mention that

Nuovo Record

These are pictures of my Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra Team USA as it looks now, with a Campagnolo C-Record group. The original fork is painted but it was cut for a Shimano Dura Ace headset, i. e. too short for the Campagnolo headset. The chromed fork is of the same type.
I have already learnt that this paint scheme was dedicated to Lance Armstrong´s winning the US National Championship in 1993, but maybe the frame number reveals some more information.

It reads: P0X and D 6015

Would be curious to learn more. Thank you very much in advance!

CyclesMakaron

P0X D6015 - Frame built in early 1993
Corsa Extra SLX road racing geometry
Rose - German mail order distributor

Nuovo Record

We have another one, of a different kind. My friend owns this ladies´ bicycle (aluminium frame with "EM" engravings, carbon fork, 3x8 Shimano group).

The frame numbers are:

Left side: P 0253
Right side: U06 1813 43

The system seems to be different from the one described in the first post of this thread. Do you have any knowledge of this? Thank you very much in advance!

CyclesMakaron

You are probably the first person to ask about this issue - congratulations
This system applies almost exclusively to alu frames (but not all).
As you can see from the old system the serial number P 0253 remains
But since 1996 a second serial number appeared - probably because the frames were produced outside Meise, somewhere in Italy.
This second number is the manufacturer's or order number. Until 2002 it looked like this, for example:
980013 where 98 is 1998 (year of production/order) and 0013 is the next frame from that year
From 2002 it looked like this:
U061813 where 06 is 2006 and 1813 is the next frame from that year
The dates of the second serial number precede those of the classic EMC serial number - this is quite logical.
Attention!
The two systems are not linked i.e:
An earlier frame from the second system may have a later number from the EMC system, e.g:
J6366 020069
J6843 020002
or
H9062 200252
H9537 200068
Your frame:
P0253 - indicates early 2007
U061813 - ~autumn 2006
43 - frame size
Some alu frames manufactured since 1996 do not have a second serial number
Some of them were built in Meise for profi teams
EMC alu designations are a galaxy closely watched by me but not yet explored

Nuovo Record

O-kay. Read my friend´s response to your post:

"I am in awe. Jacek's knowledgeability leaves me speechless."

I am, as always, impressed by your knowledge, too. So we have started a new chapter of the saga? "To boldly go where no one has gone before".

I guess there must be another number system for the titanium frames then.

CyclesMakaron

EMC's aluminium frames are the most mysterious piece of the puzzle - so far I have not been able to track down the Italian manufacturer (or manufacturers); this happens with subcontractors.
The "German trace" leads to the Faggin company, but it doesn't fit me as a "contractor", but as an intermediary in contact with the real manufacturer - yes.
Research is in progress
The titanium frames from Meise had the same serial numbering system e.g:
H581
J0212
...and nothing else
Frames produced by Litespeed had Litespeed markings - this did not distinguish frames sold as Eddy Merckx.

Nuovo Record

Well, I guess you know more about these things than I do. Romani was a good frame-builder who worked for other manufacturers as well. There was Taverna (Vetta). Basso, to my knowledge, made the frames that were sold as "Cesare M." by Brügelmann in Germany. De Rosa had a subcontractor, I think. Chirico worked for Cinelli. Battaglin? Gozzi? And, since we are talking about aluminium, ALAN frames were sold under different labels, too, e. g., in Switzerland.

"The German trace"...?

CyclesMakaron

"German trace" is a guy from a German forum, a man definitely in the industry - he traded EMC alu frames and claims they were made by Faggin; I think they only came from the same source - there was a card hanging on the place of honour in Faggin's office with "heartfelt thanks from Eddy Merckx", that's for sure
Only the actual manufacturers of the alu frames are relevant (the steel ones were made in Meise)
ALAN is "suspicious" but not convincing.
EMC worked with ALAN in the Donnay "carbon operation" (91/92), ALAN may have been a subcontractor for Hagan (EMC had the Titanal model on offer) and certainly EMC was buying alu fork from ALAN for their alu frames.
In these circumstances, EMC did not need Faggin's intermediation in establishing a business relationship with ALAN - simple as that.
We are looking for a large factory guaranteeing very high quality (95 - 99 years)
During this period EMC had alu:
- Alu Oria
- Alu Columbus
- Alu Mega
- Alu Carbon
- Alu Sprint
- Alu Team
- Cima 2000
- Flyer
- Trekking
Not bad
Any lead on a major Italian manufacturer of alu frames from this period - a real manufacturer, without rebranding - is valuable and will be carefully followed up

messy11

Hello all and Jacek,

gonna need your knowledge about this EM, is it MX Leader? And what is the name of the paintjob on this one. Probably after 95? Judging from the headtube cable guide. The serial number is L 8530 (i guess?)




Thanks in advance!

CyclesMakaron

F8630 - Mx Leader 1995
The paint scheme is the M9 variant used 1998-1999
Headtube cable guide introduced in 1992

Nuovo Record

Why are you convinced the alu frames came from Italy?

CyclesMakaron

So said the man who should know - Eddy Merckx

velomateo

What an awesome frame. I have always loved the Hitachi livery. Great find. If she ever grows tired of that one, please let me know.

Steven_04

Any help is greatly appreciated. I just picked up this beauty, I "think" its a a 90-91 corsa extra? Has slx tubing decal.
Serial is H C
5507
Has a couple werid things, no chrome, top tube cable route vs internal, Clamp on derailuer instead of braze on, no pump boss or chain hanger, but number holder. Just really excited to bring it back to former glory.

CyclesMakaron

H C5507 - frame built in early 1991
...and this is all the information
At that time there was an obsessive watch for "technical markings", if it was an SLX it would be marked X, if it was a Corsa it would appear C
Lack of markings suggests either Reynolds 753 or a custom built frame (e.g. for profi team) - there are worse alternatives
If you want to get to the next information you have to disassemble the bike:
- check how the ends of the tubes visible through the BB cover look like (photo)
- what the inside of the steering tube looks like (photo)
- what are the markings on the steering tube, especially the card (if it survived)...(photos)
Nice colour btw.

rjlombard

I'm in the process of having an old frame repainted, and have been trying to find replacement decals that match the set I have. Would be interested if anyone knows anything about the subject. Not totally obsessed with originality (actually considering Molteni orange as I also have my '82 Alan which is also "silver"), but curious as to why this image doesn't seem to appear on any other frames.

Bottom Bracket: 6 cutouts, single hole in center, cables over top. P4 8965E – seems to point to 1984? Was always told it was 65.5 CM (but never measured), so 4 doesn't make sense per guidelines.

Frame is Fiat/C&A livery, no tubing (Columbus, etc.) decals, cables over BB, 3 top tube cable guides, cube rear brake bridge, EM seat stay logo . . .

The mystery - most of the frames from this period, that have the yellow blockish type on blue ground decal on the downtube, have an image of Eddy either with big hair and he fills the image OR where he is smaller and there is a white line that comes off of his right shoulder (left side of image). Mine is him in a white jersey with striped collar (Molteni? Faema?) and he's up against a brick wall. He has a strange look on his face, and it looks to be late 60s Eddy - like 68, 69? I can't find the source image - much less a decal. Strange.

First post - have no idea of etiquette/process/chances of response; but appreciate any help that might be out there. (quick update - didn't know that one can't post images until more seasoned . . . images described above.)

Thanks

CyclesMakaron

You have a Team Issue frame, with the rarest paint job and largest series size.
65.5 measured centre-top = 64 measured centre-centre
Columbus SP/SL tubes
Merckx photo - study in progress

CyclesMakaron

Such a thing?




Found on the original Team Issue version Faema

rjlombard

That's the one - couldn't find it anywhere!

As to the "rarest paint job", why were there so few of the Fiat/C&A colors?

Appreciate the information.

CyclesMakaron

Because it was the least popular and recognizable, used for only 1 season towards the end of Merckx's career.
FAEMA (3 seasons) and Molteni (6 seasons) are a different story, EMC painted them by the thousands

messy11

Thanks Jacek! I didn't even can read the F letter, thought its an L.

anyway, I found the front derailleur hanger a bit odd, i guess its repaired previously? If its repaired, would it be easy to braze the original fd hanger? Is it hard to find the hanger?
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